Let's delve deeply into color volume and what it means

[Robert Zohn]

2017 is the first year we have been discussing and keenly focused on Color Volume. This is because color volume has only become an issue with the new TV System of HDR, WCG, 10-bit and EOTF.

Samsung did an interesting presentation at CES 2017 demonstrating the color volume of their new 2017 Quantum Dot (nano cell) displays that measured the color volume compared to LG's 2016 OLED G6. The measurements showed the new Quantum Dot displays yielding 108% of the P3 color gamut and LG's G6 measured 67% of the P3 color space. The charts showed that in high peak luminance levels Samsung's Q-Dot panel delivered better color fidelity.

One thing we should be considering is that scenes with specular highlights (the highest peak luminance levels) do not have much color in them as they are very bright and the signal is mostly white with some specular highlights using minimal color, like the bright scenes showing direct views of the sun.

LCD/LED displays naturally have a higher peak luminance than any emissive display as individual pixel illumination can't deliver the peak levels of the larger back-lit light sources. Imagine the size of the OLED light valves as the size of a pinhead that make up the 8.3 million pixels of a UHD TV and how much light can be generated from them.

On the other hand, emissive displays with their individual pixel illumination control have the ability to deliver (pixel-by-pixel) pure black and the finite low luminance levels that exploit the new EOTF curve that has been redesigned to match the human vision system of seeing more detail in low luminance levels. EOTF uses most of the displays 10-bit 1024 levels of illumination on the low end and has very minimal power in the peak luminance.

Let's discuss color volume as it relates to the value of the highest peak luminance with a fuller color palette and how that element impacts the overall image quality.

[JohnAV]

It seems.Samsung demo's compared with a OLED for comparison are always staged in favor of their display I've seen in the CES news images. For example the one with Samsung showing bright yellow bananas's and the OLED showing bananas's with a green tint to them. Now I see the new LG 2017 series stating DCI-P3 of 99% as a FYI. So yes Samsung new quantum dot technology now is called QLED and it's capable of high brightness levels but can the human eye discern extremely high brightness colors in actual viewing? This kinda like sensor overload, such as listening to music in a dynamic range suitable to one's ears versus' a extremely efficient horn speaker system where it plays at 120 decibels!

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

It seems.Samsung demo's compared with a OLED for comparison are always staged in favor of their display I've seen in the CES news images. For example the one with Samsung showing bright yellow bananas's and the OLED showing bananas's with a green tint to them. Now I see the new LG 2017 series stating DCI-P3 of 99% as a FYI. So yes Samsung new quantum dot technology now is called QLED and it's capable of high brightness levels but can the human eye discern extremely high brightness colors in actual viewing? This kinda like sensor overload, such as listening to music in a dynamic range suitable to one's ears versus' a extremely efficient horn speaker system where it plays at 120 decibels!

i agree they are staged. they make the OLED's look ridiculously dull in all their comparisons which gives false impressions to cosumers out there.

yes samsungs high end tvs are way brighter but not to that degree, they make the OLED's picture to look way too dull and washed out.

[Robert Zohn]

I never like any manufacturers comparison. At our TV Shootout Evaluation event we take random samples that are from our inventory and demonstrate how they come out of the box in the best mode and then calibrated so all of the displays are on an equal basis.

Also this year we'll be measuring Color Volume on all of the TVs and posting our results.

One more item I forgot to mention in my op is that when a display is calibrated for HDR and the EOTF is properly set the display does not clip the highlights and color volume is greatly improved. So I expect we'll see a difference in color volume pre and post HDR calibration. We measure and release all of our findings.

[Geoff D]

My take on it is that both have their strengths and weaknesses when dealing with HDR, and have said as much in other threads recently: LCDs can give you great brightness and decent contrast, whereas OLED gives you great contrast and decent brightness, either combo can result in a very satisfactory HDR performance (with more emphasis on LCD's having the right amount of brightness, to be sure). Not to downplay OLED's emissive powers but something I found interesting in the BBC's primer on HLG that Penton provided for us is that they made a clear distinction between contrast and dynamic range as it exists in the world of HDR, that even 'infinite' contrast isn't necessarily the same thing because dynamic range should be measured by what the display can achieve from lowest to highest without significant artefacts.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

2017 is the first year we have been discussing and keenly focused on Color Volume. This is because color volume has only become an issue with the new TV System of HDR, WCG, 10-bit and EOTF.

Samsung did an interesting presentation at CES 2017....

I got a kick out of the opening line of Pete’s article…. http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/...iew-mirror.php . He addresses Q-LED a little of the way further down.

P.S.
He’ll be speaking at next month’s HPA retreat...http://www.hollywoodprofessionalasso...page_id=153004. Like in previous years, I'll be attending, and I didn't do anything wrong.

[Robert Zohn]

I was on line with Pete Putman for Samsung's press conference and we discussed CES 2017 and our upcoming 2017 TV Shootout.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Penton provided for us

Some technologically related things I can’t provide folks with as they are confidential, e.g. I’ve had to crop this particular doc for public consumption….

[moviemike4]

Samsung has been doing these kinds of false things for years i have never been a big fan of there tvs those brite colors Don't do it for me , after having a pioneer elite , and now on my second oled i will never even consider a lcd.

[ray0414]

Samsungs demo was assisted by Spectracal. That alone gives their demo merit. This seems to be constantly ignored. Though I'm not sure how it translates to real world performance.

Before anyone says this is all completely useless, please verify whether or not you've seen the Dolby vision 4000 nit hdr monitor that has been raved about by everyone that has seen it. I have not seen it.

[elwaylite]

I take 0 nit to 700 nit range any day, over something that cant do zero black.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Samsungs demo was assisted by Spectracal. That alone gives their demo merit. This seems to be constantly ignored. Though I'm not sure how it translates to real world performance.

Before anyone says this is all completely useless, please verify whether or not you've seen the Dolby vision 4000 nit hdr monitor that has been raved about by everyone that has seen it. I have not seen it.

I personally watched the Sony ZD9 which peaks 10% area a shade over 1800 nits. Its really really bright. The real question is to what benefit is super bright illumination reproduction besides certain photographic effects for real world viewing not bragging rights? I enjoy seeing the sun being reproduced on this display, it does look great, but a lot of photography issues crop up when filming very bright scenes. Usually you see those issues manifest with bright lights in darker scenes in films, is that what we are headed for with the pursuit of HDR with 4000 nits with bright scenes? I'm curious?

[Robert Zohn]

The human visual system can see 7 stops of contrast, but the range varies based on the ambient light conditions. Also note we see more detail in low light vs. bright areas.

HDR is typically a range of 14 stops so when a scene displays the full 14 stop range the highlights are naturally blown out (clipped) by the limitation of range we can resolve.

[elwaylite]

Watching in a dark room, I have seen some HDR spectral highlights on my EF9500 that made me squint a little (sun, reflections on water, etc...). So I am not sure I really want 0 to say 1500.

I still value contrast ratio with 0 black more than most things, which is why even though it can't get as bright, I think OLED is a superior technology.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I take 0 nit to 700 nit range any day, over something that cant do zero black.

Peak color volume and 0 black IS the goal. Nobody says it isn't. The combination of both is not achieved in 2017.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I personally watched the Sony ZD9 which peaks 10% area a shade over 1800 nits. Its really really bright. The real question is to what benefit is super bright illumination reproduction besides certain photographic effects for real world viewing not bragging rights? I enjoy seeing the sun being reproduced on this display, it does look great, but a lot of photography issues crop up when filming very bright scenes. Usually you see those issues manifest with bright lights in darker scenes in films, is that what we are headed for with the pursuit of HDR with 4000 nits with bright scenes? I'm curious?

The Z9D is a very good hdr tv, but not a great 1. The color volume isn't overly impressive. It does not each 100% dci at any luminance level. Sony has not expanded its color coverage for 3 straight flagship tvs ( 940c, 940d, Z9D). I hope their 2017 lineup is tweaked to finally expand.

Remember that 4000 nits peak won't be full screen. A 4000 nit tv will have a max blue at 368 nits I believe. With a the proper color volume without loss of saturation, should look incredible and very true to life.

[Richard Paul]

I think it is a matter of personal preference. Whether a person prefers higher brightness and greater color saturation or very deep blacks. Color volume is promoted by companies that either sell high brightness displays or that have patents related to high brighness display technology. Color volume is a factor in video quality but there are other factors as well.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

The human visual system can see 7 stops of contrast, but the range varies based on the ambient light conditions....

Robert, there is no clear agreement as to what the simultaneous (instantaneous or static)
dynamic range of human vision exactly is (see next to the last paragraph of the Introduction here - https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/cad...ab6b1c0c0d.pdf for references), but I think most would consider that 7 stop figure to be low balling it. These days most estimate it ranges from 10-14 stops (1000:1 to 16:000:1 contrast ratio) with consensus being ~ 12 stops, for static (instantaneous) dynamic range of the human visual system (HVS)….



With time, i.e. allowing time for papillary response and retinal (bleaching) adaptation (dark
adaptation taking longer than bright, on the order of tens of seconds to minutes), altogether the human visual system is capable of about 24 stops……



For those desiring to take a deeper dive, these are good introductory lectures to the HVS (for the current contrast discussion concentrate on Lecture #2,' the csf')… http://www.jennyreadresearch.com/201...visual-system/

by Jenny who has spoken at previous professional HDR workshops.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I was on line with Pete Putman....

On a less intensive intellectual note, recognize anyone ? (watch till the very end)….

SMPTE JAM 2013 - Resolution Blues - YouTube

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

....our upcoming 2017 TV Shootout.

Have you set a date for that shootout yet?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think it is a matter of personal preference. Whether a person prefers higher brightness and greater color saturation or very deep blacks. Color volume is promoted by companies that either sell high brightness displays or that have patents related to high brighness display technology. Color volume is a factor in video quality but there are other factors as well.

Bingo. For example, the Sony BVM-X300 (an OLED with peak luminance of ~1000 nits) has a contrast ratio of about 10,000,000 to 1, whereas a 4,000 nit LCD display has an estimated (generously) 150,000 to 1 contrast ratio.

But, on thee other hand…those higher nits displays do leverage color volume, if you’re more of a fan of colors.