iTunes Library SD/HD/4k - What do I own?

[analogueghost]

Has anyone found a way to view (and ideally export to spreadsheet) ownership/viewership rights in iTunes? I know that one can start a movie on Apple TV and manually check by swiping from the top of the screen, and I believe I read that it now tags correctly somewhere on Apple TV as well. I haven't checked this yet, but I'm looking for a way to view this information for my entire 1000-title library en masse. Also, I my system is still 1080p until later in the year and am running on an Apple TV 4, not 4k, so the manual check method doesn't work for me yet as an indicator of 4k ownership.

Previously, I could at least view SD/HD ownership by going to Account/Purchases and looking visually for the microscopic HD icon. Not ideal since it lacked export, but at least I could visually scan my library and note the handful of SD titles I own manually. Now with 4k this information is less useful, and MA has further muddied the waters - for example I had SD redemptions of the Jurassic Park trilogy that came with the first blu-ray set, and if I manually scroll to the redemption date I still see SD, but if I search my library for the word Jurassic, it shows HD because of the MA import. So do I own SD, HD, or the new 4k?

Does anybody have any tips or a process for sussing this out?

[Fiffy]

There is currently no way to view 4K entitlements on a computer. I expect this will come with a new iTunes major version in the future.

For SD/HD, I think you are making this way too complicated for yourself. Simply set your library view to List format (which shows a little HD logo for HD movies) and make sure that the view is set to "All Movies". Enable the Size column and sort by size to group SD movies near the top. To export, enable the columns you want, select the entire list and copy/paste into Excel or similar.

[analogueghost]

Thanks for the helpful information!

Regarding 4k info, your hunch that it's forthcoming is probably correct. It'll be helpful for everyone to know where we stand in weirdo situations like the Jurassic Park one I mentioned above.

On the SD/HD topic, you're absolutely correct that I was going about it the wrong (read: overly complicated) way. Thanks for steering me down the correct path! I remember having iTunes set to list view a few years ago, but was having trouble finding it in the current menu system. Now I'm up and running.

[ManOfTheForest]

I don't understand. You bought the movies so they are yours, but this is not the first time I've heard talk of ownership with iTunes video.

Can anyone explain the issue in very (very, very:P) simple terms?

[-Gonzo-]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

I don't understand. You bought the movies so they are yours, but this is not the first time I've heard talk of ownership with iTunes video.

Can anyone explain the issue in very (very, very:P) simple terms?

The ownership issue isn’t just an iTunes issue, it’s a Digital Content issue altogether.
You pretty much own the lease to the content with the vendor you made the purchase but do not own the actual content itself.
Here’s a couple of articles about this very issue.
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...nap-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...igital-content

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by -Gonzo-

The ownership issue isn’t just an iTunes issue, it’s a Digital Content issue altogether.
You pretty much own the lease to the content with the vendor you made the purchase but do not own the actual content itself.
Here’s a couple of articles about this very issue.
http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...nap-story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...igital-content

So can we lose the movies and TV shows we have purchased through iTunes?

I've lost the extras on some films a couple of years ago but iTunes Support assured me that such issues were resolved and that while studios can alter the content of the extras packages they can't remove them or the films from our accounts.

At least, that is how I understood their explanation at the time.

[-Gonzo-]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

So can we lose the movies and TV shows we have purchased through iTunes?

I've lost the extras on some films a couple of years ago but iTunes Support assured me that such issues were resolved and that while studios can alter the content of the extras packages they can't remove them or the films from our accounts.

At least, the s how I understood their explanation at the time.

If the studio removes content completely from Apples servers then yes you could lose it completely unless you download and store on a hard drive via iTunes.
I have seen some complain of music albums which have been removed which they no longer have access to.
I’ve got the Constantine TV Series which although it has been removed for purchase I do still have access to it.
I guess it just all depends on what agreements are in place.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

So can we lose the movies and TV shows we have purchased through iTunes?

This has been discussed many times already. In theory, the terms of use you agree to when signing up for the service allow the removal of content from your library. In practice, it (almost) never happens. Personally I am pretty confident it will remain a rare exception, since the studios and Apple/Amazon/Vudu etc. know that users would lose trust and it would ruin the sell-through business if that was a common occurrence. If you are really concerned about this, you can always download and back up your stuff with iTunes.

The other side of the coin is that the studios can also *add* additional value to digital content after your purchase, such as new extras, alternative versions, or HD/4K upgrades. That is quite common on iTunes.

[Majoran]

Originally Posted by analogueghost

Has anyone found a way to view (and ideally export to spreadsheet) ownership/viewership rights in iTunes? I know that one can start a movie on Apple TV and manually check by swiping from the top of the screen, and I believe I read that it now tags correctly somewhere on Apple TV as well. I haven't checked this yet, but I'm looking for a way to view this information for my entire 1000-title library en masse. Also, I my system is still 1080p until later in the year and am running on an Apple TV 4, not 4k, so the manual check method doesn't work for me yet as an indicator of 4k ownership.

Previously, I could at least view SD/HD ownership by going to Account/Purchases and looking visually for the microscopic HD icon. Not ideal since it lacked export, but at least I could visually scan my library and note the handful of SD titles I own manually. Now with 4k this information is less useful, and MA has further muddied the waters - for example I had SD redemptions of the Jurassic Park trilogy that came with the first blu-ray set, and if I manually scroll to the redemption date I still see SD, but if I search my library for the word Jurassic, it shows HD because of the MA import. So do I own SD, HD, or the new 4k?

Does anybody have any tips or a process for sussing this out?

You don’t own the 4K of JP, they only give upgrades for direct HD purchases, direct HD redemptions or 4K imports from MA. You could own the HD version, but the k oh way to be sure would be to play back on your ATV and swipe down it should show HD for HD playback. If it shows nothing than most likely it is SD.

[analogueghost]

Thanks -Gonzo- for the linked article - I look forward to reading those.

I'll add to Fiffy's comment that not only does iTunes add content, it's even something they feature on their storefront by advertising new 4k catalog titles and the "new features added" section.

The root of my original question was more about knowing what viewership rights I have for specific titles in my library, but the ownership vs lease concept is worth discussing since it sort of relates to the muddying of the waters that has been created by iTunes embracing of 4k and MA's introduction to the marketplace. They've been great improvements overall, but they've made some things a little less clear for consumers.

Several titles have seen what I'll call "resolution flex" in peoples' libraries - most titles are getting upped across the board to the highest that a person had in their libraries, but I've read posts about a few titles being downgraded too. With the iTunes 4k upgrades it leads a lot of people to the question of "well, I redeemed on UV and iTunes and now the title is 4k in iTunes - will MA grant me a UHD upgrade to the other services or not?" the answer to which is usually no, since Vudu appears to be MA's "decider," but who knows how this will develop in the future.

One helpful piece of the puzzle is that MA reports redemption service, media type (SD, HD, or 4k), and date in your purchase history.

Regarding digital content removal from services in general, I've seen it handled three ways for various sorts of digital content and scenarios:

Movies -

Vudu and iTunes: Titles that they have lost permission to sell are hidden in store, but available in library. Usually requires manual navigation within library to access, as search results appear to target the storefront.

This part my be apocryphal, but...

Other digital content -

7Digital: Music appears in library as placeholder, but no access is given. They now warn buyers to download immediately upon purchase instead of trusting their locker.

Amazon Kindle: Books that have changed publishers are still accessible in library, and new version is viewable in store.

Bandcamp: Same behavior as Amazon, although it sounds like musicians have the right to remove music completely.

[analogueghost]

Originally Posted by Majoran

You don’t own the 4K of JP, they only give upgrades for direct HD purchases, direct HD redemptions or 4K imports from MA. You could own the HD version, but the k oh way to be sure would be to play back on your ATV and swipe down it should show HD for HD playback. If it shows nothing than most likely it is SD.

I think you're right, and the logic makes sense: from iTunes' perspective I "bought" the SD version when I redeemed a code directly with them 4-5 years ago, and I received HD viewing rights when I linked my MA account. If I'm dying to get the 4k version on iTunes, I can redeem a 4k code (which MA now recognizes for at least some titles, even though their apps can't stream it yet), or wait for it to go on sale in iTunes directly. I expect both solutions to require hiding Jurassic Park in my library.

[analogueghost]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

This has been discussed many times already. In theory, the terms of use you agree to when signing up for the service allow the removal of content from your library. In practice, it (almost) never happens. Personally I am pretty confident it will remain a rare exception, since the studios and Apple/Amazon/Vudu etc. know that users would lose trust and it would ruin the sell-through business if that was a common occurrence. If you are really concerned about this, you can always download and back up your stuff with iTunes.

The other side of the coin is that the studios can also *add* additional value to digital content after your purchase, such as new extras, alternative versions, or HD/4K upgrades. That is quite common on iTunes.

Agreed. After reading this article about the genesis of MA ( https://www.mediaplaynews.com/bettin...vies-anywhere/ - very interesting read) the primary objective of the service is to build a value proposition for consumers and to build trust in sell through products. Which has worked, at least for myself and my brother, who have gone from "I'll buy it and redeem the code" to "it's $5 on streaming in 4k with all the special features from the $20 disc. I'll buy it, add it to my family library, and if I REALLY love it I'll buy the disc when it's $5 and sell the code for $2 or $3."

Needless to say, our digital collections have ballooned between iTunes 4k adoption and the launch of MA.

[analogueghost]

Quick note to put this topic to bed that will hopefully help anyone who has this question going forward:

As of version 12.7.5.9, iTunes now reflects ownership level for 1080p/4k correctly on the store page for each title. If you have a movie in your library and the store page shows the 4k tag, you own the 4k version. Movies that are available in 4k that you only have 1080p viewing rights for will flash the 4k tag while the page loads, then replace it with the HD tag.

No purchase option is shown since you own the highest version of the film that can be bought - iTunes doesn't technically sell 4k since the upgrades are included with purchase of the HD version. The old trick of gifting yourself a code does work, and yields a 4k upgrade. (Tested with The Conjuring, which I owned in HD, this weekend. I now have 4k.) Movies that you own in SD will show the HD tag and present an option to buy the HD version.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by analogueghost

Quick note to put this topic to bed that will hopefully help anyone who has this question going forward:

As of version 12.7.5.9, iTunes now reflects ownership level for 1080p/4k correctly on the store page for each title. If you have a movie in your library and the store page shows the 4k tag, you own the 4k version. Movies that are available in 4k that you only have 1080p viewing rights for will flash the 4k tag while the page loads, then replace it with the HD tag.

No purchase option is shown since you own the highest version of the film that can be bought - iTunes doesn't technically sell 4k since the upgrades are included with purchase of the HD version. The old trick of gifting yourself a code does work, and yields a 4k upgrade. (Tested with The Conjuring, which I owned in HD, this weekend. I now have 4k.) Movies that you own in SD will show the HD tag and present an option to buy the HD version.

It's a bit of a pain having to check each title in store but at least it's something...I have more 4K titles than I thought!

[cmleblanc]

Originally Posted by analogueghost

Quick note to put this topic to bed that will hopefully help anyone who has this question going forward:

As of version 12.7.5.9, iTunes now reflects ownership level for 1080p/4k correctly on the store page for each title. If you have a movie in your library and the store page shows the 4k tag, you own the 4k version. Movies that are available in 4k that you only have 1080p viewing rights for will flash the 4k tag while the page loads, then replace it with the HD tag.

No purchase option is shown since you own the highest version of the film that can be bought - iTunes doesn't technically sell 4k since the upgrades are included with purchase of the HD version. The old trick of gifting yourself a code does work, and yields a 4k upgrade. (Tested with The Conjuring, which I owned in HD, this weekend. I now have 4k.) Movies that you own in SD will show the HD tag and present an option to buy the HD version.

Thanks for this info. But I don't think it resolves anything. I don't understand why it's so difficult for Apple to provide a real solution to this issue. This is just a bandaid because they insist upon using one field to determine what is available vs what is owned. Also, you still cannot see that you own a title in 4K in your Itunes library. Having to search in the store is not a solution to this problem, especially when they frequently remove titles from the store.
I was so disappointed in the WWDC - really thought they were going to give Itunes some badly needed rewrite to help resolve all these issues.