How REALLY Bad are Babylon 5 DVDs?

[Jodi]

I've heard for some years now about how and why Babylon 5 DVD season sets look pretty bad, namely because of two issues: 1) the CGI effects seem to appear jagged for some odd reason, and 2) the framing/"letterboxing" issue.

While I have not played the "guinea pig" yet, I have been hesitant to try out any of the B5 DVDs, so I'd like to get some input from some of you regarding your experiences with these DVD sets.

Would love to hear from you.

[chip75]

The issues can detract somewhat, but it's probably the best way to watch the show. If I remember there's quite a few post-production zooms as well, so resolution can drop off as they go in tighter.

I'll try and do a few screen captures tomorrow if it helps.

At the end of the day the show's quality outweighs all the issues.

[NyeX]

I actually just finished watching the entire B5 series on DVD right before Amazon put it on prime. I did watch one episode on prime to compare and I think the DVDs are a little bit better if watched on an upconverting player. To answer your questions, though, yes some cgi effects do suffer from low resolution especially in season one. But I would say that the cg effects improve dramatically over the five seasons, and by season three they are better than even some of today's B movies. As to the framing issues, there are only certain scenes where someone might consider it annoying or distracting, particularly in the couple minutes after the main theme as an episode's credits appear. Other than that, it's really not much of a problem. The only other thing I can think to add is that there are the occasional low resolution shots that appear out of place because of how they did cuts to cgi scenes, but over all, I would suggest that the phenominal story telling is well worth these few hiccups. DVD or prime, B5 is well worth it.

[thecooldud]

Seems fine to me...

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by chip75

The issues can detract somewhat, but it's probably the best way to watch the show. If I remember there's quite a few post-production zooms as well, so resolution can drop off as they go in tighter.

I'll try and do a few screen captures tomorrow if it helps.

At the end of the day the show's quality outweighs all the issues.

Hi Chip75, would appreciate seeing some shots whenever you get a chance.

I like the show very much, especially the first four seasons. And I think the input to this post so far sound a lot more encouraging actually. You all are right -- the storytelling should truly outweigh the "hiccups" here and there.

Hope to see pics, soon.

[oddbox83]

An oldie but goodie. https://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Baby...DTransfer.html

I'd hope a HD version would be done in 16:9 from the original film again but with effects redone. They'd have to be redone from scratch, but hopefully now some of the lost CG models now exist from The Lost Tales.

I'd like the original 4:3 transfer and effects included as SD extras in an ideal world for purists.

[Dragon Ranger]

I'm still tempted to pick up the DVD set despite all the concerns as a lot of people that post on these forums when it comes to picture quality are prone to hyperbole and throw around the word unwatchable far too quickly.

If this is the only way to watch one of my favourite series for the foreseeable future then I'll deal with low res effects shots and keep enjoying the story.

[Vandal Savage]

Long story short, Babylon 5 was filmed 16:9 to future-proof it for HD.

However, the final was rendered at 4:3 in standard def, including all,of the CGI effects.

When it came time to produce the DVDs, it was decided that it would be released in widescreen. All live action scenes and shots without CGI or other special effects (like optic wipes, laser guns shots) were transferred from the film source and look good. But CGI scenes and live action action with effects had to be cropped at the top and bottom and zoomed in, which creates a very noticeable drop in the image quality.

That said, if you're interested, go for it. I think the seasons can be had cheaply these days.

[CouncilSpectre]

The DVDs were back-converted from PAL sources. The NTSC masters couldn't be found at the time. Just to add insult to injury.

Basically, we're fcuked. WBs will never pay the $$$ needed to put out a decent version of B5 on home media.

[Rixx]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

The DVDs were back-converted from PAL sources. The NTSC masters couldn't be found at the time. Just to add insult to injury.

Basically, we're fcuked. WBs will never pay the $$$ needed to put out a decent version of B5 on home media.

Yes, but they did tease us 5 years ago.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2013...hd-update.html

Who knows , maybe if the price of remastering plummets they will put them out.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by Rixx

Yes, but they did tease us 5 years ago.

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2013...hd-update.html

Who knows , maybe if the price of remastering plummets they will put them out.

It would be helpful to know exactly what WBs have in terms of assets. Joe recently floated the idea that they were provided with clean masters of every episode and whilst the VFX were still rendered at 480i, a new scan and transfer would be a considerable upgrade over the DVDs, particularly the non-VFX/composite shots that could be scanned and mastered for a true HD finish. I lost track of what was going on with that thread a while ago when it became clear that Joe was confusing certain things.

Despite what WBs might say, their actions when The Lost Tales was a thing suggests otherwise. Volume 1 outperformed expectations ten-fold and they still weren't prepared to put more $$$ in.

Where WBs and B5 is concerned, I'll believe it when I see it.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Jodi

Hi Chip75, would appreciate seeing some shots whenever you get a chance.

I like the show very much, especially the first four seasons. And I think the input to this post so far sound a lot more encouraging actually. You all are right -- the storytelling should truly outweigh the "hiccups" here and there.

Hope to see pics, soon.

Here's a couple of captures from the first hour of season two.

Babylon 5: The Complete Second Season UK DVD

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by NyeX

I actually just finished watching the entire B5 series on DVD right before Amazon put it on prime. I did watch one episode on prime to compare and I think the DVDs are a little bit better if watched on an upconverting player.

I was planning to buy the show on iTunes since I wanted a digital version for convenience, but after buying a random episode I was shocked how bad it looked (massive aliasing and low resolution). The DVDs (in my case the UK PAL release), even with all their flaws, are still the best way to watch this show. I ended up ripping all 5 seasons to my NAS, and the files look significantly better than either the iTunes or the Amazon Prime versions.

I very much hope that one day we'll get a release that does this show justice.

[musicman1]

I remember watching babylon 5 on tv and watching an interview about the special effects and being amazed that they were able to do this for tv. Here’s a quote from a website

The July 1994 issue of Compute! magazine discusses the graphics used in Babylon 5. By today’s standards, it seems primitive, but it was innovative in its time. Each episode of the series used an average of 6,000 frames of computer graphic animation from Foundation Imaging. They used 24 Amiga 2000s, 16 of which were dedicated rendering engines. They had 32 megabytes of RAM, a Fusion-40 accelerator and the Toaster. The Amigas were connected via a Novell network and sent data to a 12 gigabyte 486 PC file server. They later upgraded to Pentium and Alpha-based systems.

Really primitive stuff but state of the art back then.

[CouncilSpectre]

Originally Posted by musicman1

I remember watching babylon 5 on tv and watching an interview about the special effects and being amazed that they were able to do this for tv. Here’s a quote from a website

The July 1994 issue of Compute! magazine discusses the graphics used in Babylon 5. By today’s standards, it seems primitive, but it was innovative in its time. Each episode of the series used an average of 6,000 frames of computer graphic animation from Foundation Imaging. They used 24 Amiga 2000s, 16 of which were dedicated rendering engines. They had 32 megabytes of RAM, a Fusion-40 accelerator and the Toaster. The Amigas were connected via a Novell network and sent data to a 12 gigabyte 486 PC file server. They later upgraded to Pentium and Alpha-based systems.

Really primitive stuff but state of the art back then.

Which can be downloaded and read for free here:

http://www.commodore.ca/commodore-ga...cial-editions/

[Pulp Hero]

I'm glad to see this thread. Lately I've been thinking about tracking down Babylon 5 (somehow missed most of it when the show first ran) and was going to ask pretty much the same question as Jodi.

Thanks to everyone for the informative posts. I'd already read about B5 being filmed in anticipation of future television developments -- it's really a shame that the careful preparation of the team making B5 has yet to be truly acted upon. Maybe someday (hopefully sooner rather than later)

[CouncilSpectre]

It's worth pointing out that whilst the DVDs look like ass in places, they're still watchable, and I'd encourage anyone that's never actually seen, or finished the series before, to jump on it. It's a fantastic science fiction saga that, IMO, has never been bettered, before or after.

Just don't spoil yourself, and give it until the end of the second season, or at least the end of the first, to see where the show goes.

[Porco Azzurro]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

It's worth pointing out that whilst the DVDs look like ass in places, they're still watchable, and I'd encourage anyone that's never actually seen, or finished the series before, to jump on it. It's a fantastic science fiction saga that, IMO, has never been bettered, before or after.

Just don't spoil yourself, and give it until the end of the second season, or at least the end of the first, to see where the show goes.

Completely agree with every word.

It hurts a lot that there aren’t some lovely Blu-rays of this show, it’s one of my all-time favourite TV shows, and even if it was only available on VHS I’d recommend it to anyone who has even the slightest interest.

The effects were amazing for the time, and haven’t even been cared for in the best way so some actually look worse now than they did then, and bigger-screen TVs obviously make that even worse. I actually first watched because of the involvement of the Amiga for the effects (was a big Amiga fan/user) but I carried on watching, and have re-watched several times because of the epic story arcs, wonderful characters and timeless themes.

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by musicman1

I remember watching babylon 5 on tv and watching an interview about the special effects and being amazed that they were able to do this for tv. Here’s a quote from a website

The July 1994 issue of Compute! magazine discusses the graphics used in Babylon 5. By today’s standards, it seems primitive, but it was innovative in its time. Each episode of the series used an average of 6,000 frames of computer graphic animation from Foundation Imaging. They used 24 Amiga 2000s, 16 of which were dedicated rendering engines. They had 32 megabytes of RAM, a Fusion-40 accelerator and the Toaster. The Amigas were connected via a Novell network and sent data to a 12 gigabyte 486 PC file server. They later upgraded to Pentium and Alpha-based systems.

Really primitive stuff but state of the art back then.

I read something about this about a week ago. What struck me the most were the use of multiple Commodore Amigas! I remember Amiga from the mid-late 80s into the early 90s, and in that day Amigas were simply the coolest computers out there. Period. Nice strolling down memory lane, isn't it?

[Jodi]

Originally Posted by CouncilSpectre

The DVDs were back-converted from PAL sources. The NTSC masters couldn't be found at the time. Just to add insult to injury.

Basically, we're fcuked. WBs will never pay the $$$ needed to put out a decent version of B5 on home media.

Does this mean that the U.S. season sets were sourced from PAL masters, with the "PAL speed-up" and all?