Superman

[ManOfTheForest]

Does the 3 hour TV version of Superman the Movie use footage that is also in the Donner Cut of Superman II ?

Is there any chance we see other iTunes Extras for Superman 4K beside the TV cut?

[-Gonzo-]

No the 3 hour cut uses all the footage that was originally cut from the theatrical version, although they were mostly filmed back to back the extra scenes are relevant to the first film and you can see why some of them were cut.
The Donner Cut uses all the footage that was mostly cut from Superman II due to the reshoots Richard Lister had to do to get the directors credit.
I very much doubt we’ll get extras on par with the Blu-ray releases, my advice would be to get the TV cut version on iTunes and try and hunt down the Superman Anthology 8 disc Blu-ray set as the special feature in that are fantastic, it’s filled to the brim with them. And when I say packed to the brim, every disc has special features on them.

The Superman Motion Picture Anthology 1978-2006 [Blu-ray] [1978] [Region Free] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004MYF6YK

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by -Gonzo-

No the 3 hour cut uses all the footage that was originally cut from the theatrical version, although they were mostly filmed back to back the extra scenes are relevant to the first film and you can see why some of them were cut.
The Donner Cut uses all the footage that was mostly cut from Superman II due to the reshoots Richard Lister had to do to get the directors credit.

Okay, I've never seen the TV version or the Donner Cut (or Quest for Peace for that matter)but I remember reading that the Donner Cut voided (I think was the word) the TV version of the first movie. I knew they were filmed back to back so I had taken this to mean Salkind's had taken the extra footage from Superman II.

Although isn't the Donner Cut shorter that the theatrical?

Originally Posted by -Gonzo-

I very much doubt we’ll get extras on par with the Blu-ray releases, my advice would be to get the TV cut version on iTunes and try and hunt down the Superman Anthology 8 disc Blu-ray set as the special feature in that are fantastic, it’s filled to the brim with them. And when I say packed to the brim, every disc has special features on them.

The Superman Motion Picture Anthology 1978-2006 [Blu-ray] [1978] [Region Free] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004MYF6YK

Do you think the extras will never happen because of rights issues or just that Warner Bros. don't see the value?

Thanks for the recommendation of the blu-ray. I picked iTunes over blu-ray because of shelf space have always known that some blu-rays would be needed. I'll add this to the list.

EDIT: That is a very nice price for something as tasty as you've described.

[-Gonzo-]

Ok so a brief Superman history lesson:
Donner was shooting Superman 1 and most of Superman 2 back to back with the intention of completing the rest after the release of Superman 1, due to overrunning the already filmed ending of Superman 2 was used as the ending of Superman 1. Donner was fired so unable to complete Superman 2.
As with all movies certain scenes that are shot get left on the cutting room floor. The Salkinds however decided they could make some extra money by giving the TV companies the option of having a different cut with extra scenes added depending on how much they were willing to spend for certain running times.
With Superman 2 they got in Richard Lester but for him to get a Directors credit he had to of shot a certain percentage of the movie so they canned quite a lot of the Donner footage and reshot a certain amount of scenes so that’s how we ended up with the Eithel Tower scene at the beginning and other scenes with comedic value.
For years there had been rumours of the Donner footage still existing so then 20 years later all the footage was found at various places around the world, cleaned up and pieced together as close to how Donner originally intended it being but of course some scenes weren’t shot so only had test screen footage for some scenes.
What you end up with is a movie that’s sort of the same as you remember but different and with a lot darker tone.

That 8 disc boxset is more than worth getting I must say, especially if your a Superman fan, I was quite lucky with mine as only payed £2 because of a Sainsbury’s glitch at the time.

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by -Gonzo-

Ok so a brief Superman history lesson:
Donner was shooting Superman 1 and most of Superman 2 back to back with the intention of completing the rest after the release of Superman 1, due to overrunning the already filmed ending of Superman 2 was used as the ending of Superman 1. Donner was fired so unable to complete Superman 2.
As with all movies certain scenes that are shot get left on the cutting room floor. The Salkinds however decided they could make some extra money by giving the TV companies the option of having a different cut with extra scenes added depending on how much they were willing to spend for certain running times.
With Superman 2 they got in Richard Lester but for him to get a Directors credit he had to of shot a certain percentage of the movie so they canned quite a lot of the Donner footage and reshot a certain amount of scenes so that’s how we ended up with the Eithel Tower scene at the beginning and other scenes with comedic value.
For years there had been rumours of the Donner footage still existing so then 20 years later all the footage was found at various places around the world, cleaned up and pieced together as close to how Donner originally intended it being but of course some scenes weren’t shot so only had test screen footage for some scenes.
What you end up with is a movie that’s sort of the same as you remember but different and with a lot darker tone.

That 8 disc boxset is more than worth getting I must say, especially if your a Superman fan, I was quite lucky with mine as only payed £2 because of a Sainsbury’s glitch at the time.

I knew Donner was fired but not that they scrap so much Donner footage for Lester to get the credit or that the ending of the first film was taken from the second.

Do the extras on the blu-ray give all the details of these shennagins or is it ignored? I like honest warts and all behind the scenes documentaries.

So is the Donner Cut of II all his scenes back in the film mixed with test footage - kind of like a work in progress version?

I'll get the 8 blu-ray set but I'd like the films on iTunes too. I'll get the 4K with the TV version as an extra as you suggested and it is on sale this week as part of the Batman anniversary. I'll think about the others.

£2 for that set is ridiculous

[-Gonzo-]

Can’t remember exactly if it’s all mentioned in the special features, they may touch on it a little. I think I may have saw a YouTube vid with Donner talking about what went on.
Have a watch of this which is one of the special features on the Donner Cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISxU...ature=youtu.be

[CompleteCount]

If you watch the (Richard Donner) movie Scrooged, Bill Murray is being followed around by John Glover, becoming paranoid that he's being groomed to replace him. Donner put this element in to mirror what happened to him when Richard Lester started turning up unannounced on the Superman set and intently watched everything he did, not knowing that it was to get a feel for the movie before replacing him once fired.

The Salkinds didn't like Donner, who was willful in getting things done his way - the fact that he produced amazing results on a project predicted to be a failure from the outset didn't enter into it.

The producers owed Lester money from the Three Musketeers movies (probably because it was intended as one long feature before being split into two, paying everyone only for a single film in the process) and to square things off with him, the Salkinds decided to sack the troublesome Donner and give Lester a nice job with a generous pay-cheque at the end of it.

About 70% of filming was finished on Donner's II, but about half of that was scrapped so as to tip the percentage of the final film in Lester's favour and give him sole credit. A couple of the Lester-shot pieces exclusive to the extended Superman II (TV version) are horrible, with a stereotypical Japanese family chopping the heads off of fish, and the female sports fan complaining that her game has been interrupted by a broadcast from the Whitehouse.

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

If you watch the (Richard Donner) movie Scrooged, Bill Murray is being followed around by John Glover, becoming paranoid that he's being groomed to replace him. Donner put this element in to mirror what happened to him when Richard Lester started turning up unannounced on the Superman set and intently watched everything he did, not knowing that it was to get a feel for the movie before replacing him once fired.

The Salkinds didn't like Donner, who was willful in getting things done his way - the fact that he produced amazing results on a project predicted to be a failure from the outset didn't enter into it.

The producers owed Lester money from the Three Musketeers movies (probably because it was intended as one long feature before being split into two, paying everyone only for a single film in the process) and to square things off with him, the Salkinds decided to sack the troublesome Donner and give Lester a nice job with a generous pay-cheque at the end of it.

About 70% of filming was finished on Donner's II, but about half of that was scrapped so as to tip the percentage of the final film in Lester's favour and give him sole credit. A couple of the Lester-shot pieces exclusive to the extended Superman II (TV version) are horrible, with a stereotypical Japanese family chopping the heads off of fish, and the female sports fan complaining that her game has been interrupted by a broadcast from the Whitehouse.

Yikes, that is pretty deplorable behaviour - knowing he was taking the guy's job and not only not saying it but learning from him.

I wonder how the Salkind's treated the real Santa Claus when making the movie?

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

Yikes, that is pretty deplorable behaviour - knowing he was taking the guy's job and not only not saying it but learning from him.

I wonder how the Salkind's treated the real Santa Claus when making the movie?

No, only the script abused him.

They did the same thing to poor ol' Supergirl, too...

[yunro]

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

If you watch the (Richard Donner) movie Scrooged, Bill Murray is being followed around by John Glover, becoming paranoid that he's being groomed to replace him. Donner put this element in to mirror what happened to him when Richard Lester started turning up unannounced on the Superman set and intently watched everything he did, not knowing that it was to get a feel for the movie before replacing him once fired.

The Salkinds didn't like Donner, who was willful in getting things done his way - the fact that he produced amazing results on a project predicted to be a failure from the outset didn't enter into it.

The producers owed Lester money from the Three Musketeers movies (probably because it was intended as one long feature before being split into two, paying everyone only for a single film in the process) and to square things off with him, the Salkinds decided to sack the troublesome Donner and give Lester a nice job with a generous pay-cheque at the end of it.

About 70% of filming was finished on Donner's II, but about half of that was scrapped so as to tip the percentage of the final film in Lester's favour and give him sole credit. A couple of the Lester-shot pieces exclusive to the extended Superman II (TV version) are horrible, with a stereotypical Japanese family chopping the heads off of fish, and the female sports fan complaining that her game has been interrupted by a broadcast from the Whitehouse.

And you also had the fact that Gene Hackman refused to come back for any reshoots with Lester, so they used a double in long shots and from behind when needed.
And all the Brando scenes were removed from II as he sued the Salkinds for money owed from the first film.

[-Gonzo-]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

Thanks for the recommendation of the blu-ray. I picked iTunes over blu-ray because of shelf space have always known that some blu-rays would be needed. I'll add this to the list.

EDIT: That is a very nice price for something as tasty as you've described.

Here’s what’s on each disc:

DISC 1 - SUPERMAN THE MOVIE
(ORIGINAL 1978 THEATRICAL RELEASE)
Commentary by Producer Pierre Spengler and Executive Producer llya Salkind
Vintage TV Special The Making of Superman The Movie
1951 Theatrical Feature Superman and the Mole-Men Starring George Reeves
Classic Cartoons Super-Rabbit, Snafuperman and Stupor Duck
Theatrical Trailers and TV Spot

DISC 2 - SUPERMAN THE MOVIE
(EXPANDED EDITION)
Commentary by Director Richard Donner and Creative Consultant Tom Mankiewicz
3 Documentaries: Taking Flight: The Development of Superman,
Making Superman: Filming the Legend and The Magic Behind the Cape
Restored Scenes
Music-Only Audio Track
Additional Deleted Scenes
Screen Tests
Audio-Only Bonus: Additional Music Cues

DISC 3 - SUPERMAN II
(ORIGINAL 1980/81 THEATRICAL RELEASE)
Commentary by Producer Pierre Spengler and Executive Producer llya Salkind
Vintage TV Special The Making of Superman ll
Additional Scenes
Featurette First Flight: The Fleischer Superman Series
9 1940s Fleischer Studios Superman Cartoons: Superman, The Mechanical Monsters,
Billion Dollar Limited, The Arctic Giant, The Bulleteers, The Magnetic Telescope,
Electric Earthquake, Volcano and Terror on the Midway
Theatrical Trailer

DISC 4 - SUPERMAN II
(THE 2006 RICHARD DONNER CUT)
Commentary by Director Richard Donner and Creative Consultant Tom Mankiewicz
Introduction by Richard Donner
Featurette Superman ll: Restoring the Vision
Additional Scenes
8 1940s Famous Studios Superman Cartoons: Japoteurs, Showdown, Eleventh Hour
Destruction, Inc., The Mummy Strikes, Jungle Drums,
The Underground World and Secret Agent

DISC 5 - SUPERMAN III
Commentary by Producer Pierre Spengler and Executive Producer llya Salkind
Vintage TV Special The Making of Superman III
Additional Scenes
Theatrical Trailer

DISC 6 - SUPERMAN IV: THE QUEST FOR PEACE
Commentary by Co-Screenwriter Mark Rosentha
Vintage TV Special Superman's 50th Anniversary: A Celebration of the Man of Steel
Additional Scenes
Theatrical Trailer

DISC 7 - SUPERMAN RETURNS
Requiem for Krypton: Making Superman Returns- From Script to Screen in 7 Segments
Secret Origins and First Issues: Crystallizing Superman - Development
The Crystal Method: Designing Superman From Art and Costume Design to Set Construction
An Affinity for Beachfront Property: Shooting Superman - Superman on the Farm
An Affinity for Beachfront Property: Shooting Superman - Superman in the City
An Affinity for Beachfront Property: Shooting Superman - Superman in Peril
The Joy of Lex: Menacing Superman - Behind the Scenes with Kevin Spacey
He's A/ways Around: Wrapping Superman - The End of Principal Photography
Resurrecting Jor-El: How Filmmakers Re-created Superman's Father as Played by Marlon Brando
Additional Scenes Theatrical Trailers
Bryan Singer's Video Journals

DISC 8 - BONUS DISC
Feature- Length Documentary Look, Up in the Sky! The Amazing Story of Superman,
Executive Produced by Bryan Singer and Kevin Burns, in High Definition
Feature-Length Documentary in 5 Parts: You Will Believe: The Cinematic Saga of Superman
Origin Superman in the Media and the Challenges the Salkinds Faced
Vision Creating the Right Script, Choosing the Right Director and Casting the Right Actors
Ascent - The Production and Launch of a New Kind of Fantasy Film
Crisis- Complications and Conflicts Between the Creative Forces Behind Superman II
Redemption Criticisms and Burnout of Superman ll and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
TV Special The Science of Superman in High Definition
The Mythology of Superman: Legend, Folklore and Cultural Influences That Shaped Superman
The Heart of a Hero: A Tribute to Christopher Reeve Family and Friends Reflect
The Adventures of Superpup: 1958 TV Pilot.

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by yunro

And you also had the fact that Gene Hackman refused to come back for any reshoots with Lester, so they used a double in long shots and from behind when needed.

Donner can be a little hazy on certain things about the two movies, including how he claimed that at least one key scene with Brando in Superman II was going to be re-shot due to not being happy with how it turned out. This is highly unlikely, as Brando's involvement was exacting - go in, do the job, get paid, end of participation. OK, Donner and Brando got on famously, but not enough to get him to do more than was in his contract.

A few years ago, Hackman denied the claims (which he had even been quoted on) that he steadfastly refused to take part in the re-shoots for Lester, going on to say that the real reason was because he was unavailable due to another movie being filmed at the same time.

Yeah, sure...

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

No, only the script abused him.

They did the same thing to poor ol' Supergirl, too...

Can't help but love those movies though

I've never actually seen Supergirl from start to finish. Only in chucks here and there.

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by yunro

And you also had the fact that Gene Hackman refused to come back for any reshoots with Lester, so they used a double in long shots and from behind when needed.
And all the Brando scenes were removed from II as he sued the Salkinds for money owed from the first film.

I had known for years the first two films were made back to back and Donner was fired but I knew nothing of the drama.

Hackman and Kidder both made public their feelings on the treatment of Donner. That answered a question I always had about why Lois barely appeared in III - she wasn't a big deal like Hackman.

The Salkinds brought in Lester because they owed him money too. If they didn't pay the likes of Brando and a director properly I wonder how many of the lower down people were left short. :P

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by -Gonzo-

Here’s what’s on each disc:

DISC 1 - SUPERMAN THE MOVIE
(ORIGINAL 1978 THEATRICAL RELEASE)
Commentary by Producer Pierre Spengler and Executive Producer llya Salkind
Vintage TV Spec……………….

Thank you.

I wanted to look this up earlier but the disc review pages on blu-ray.com won't open and no other site had this much details.

Glad to see there is a few vintage making of - they tend to actually use behind the scenes footage whereas most newer ones use too much finished footage.

Going to order it later.

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by CompleteCount

Donner can be a little hazy on certain things about the two movies, including how he claimed that at least one key scene with Brando in Superman II was going to be re-shot due to not being happy with how it turned out. This is highly unlikely, as Brando's involvement was exacting - go in, do the job, get paid, end of participation. OK, Donner and Brando got on famously, but not enough to get him to do more than was in his contract.

A few years ago, Hackman denied the claims (which he had even been quoted on) that he steadfastly refused to take part in the re-shoots for Lester, going on to say that the real reason was because he was unavailable due to another movie being filmed at the same time.

Yeah, sure...

Maybe Brando was going to enticed with more money.

Not unheard of for an actor to be unavailable for reshoots and Hackman was a busy man. When did he deny it? A few years after or more recently?

[CompleteCount]

Originally Posted by ManOfTheForest

Maybe Brando was going to enticed with more money.

Not unheard of for an actor to be unavailable for reshoots and Hackman was a busy man. When did he deny it? A few years after or more recently?

I believe that Hackman refuted the claim within the last 10 years. Hackman agreed to do the movies because he liked Donner (and the $2m which went with it) and was very loyal to him. He was quite vocal about the firing, and this included refusing to take part in the re-shoots. His work on the films was long finished when Donner was fired, and had no legal obligation to go back.

Writer Tom Mankeiwicz (who rescued the scripts from the camp hell they were about to shoot them as) and legendary editor Stuart Baird also chose not to come back out of loyalty to Donner.

When it came to Brando, everything was organised around him - once finished and paid, he was out of the two films forever.

[Yaristaman]

Can someone who has purchased this on iTunes confirm the ratio the film is in? I bought it a while back but got it refunded as the main version of the film was in 1.85:1.

[ManOfTheForest]

Originally Posted by Yaristaman

Can someone who has purchased this on iTunes confirm the ratio the film is in? I bought it a while back but got it refunded as the main version of the film was in 1.85:1.

I can only tell the difference between fullscreen and widescreen.

I wouldn't know the differences between the various widescreens.

[-Gonzo-]

Originally Posted by Yaristaman

Can someone who has purchased this on iTunes confirm the ratio the film is in? I bought it a while back but got it refunded as the main version of the film was in 1.85:1.

The aspect ratio according to IMDb is 2.35:1, the 4K Blu-ray states the aspect ratio as being 16x9 2.4:1
From what I can tell the iTunes copy is the same as the disc.