Question about settings on Nakamichi Shockwafe 7.1.4 system

[Dastari]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a Nakamichi Shockwafe 7.1.4 system. There are a few things that confuse me about it, so I'd appreciate your feedback or help.

So the system automatically detects whether the media being played is DTS or Dolby. It can also be put in a stereo mode that differentiates between "Stereo Only" and "All Channel Stereo". Both of these reduce the sound input to just 2 inputs even if it's 5.1 or more. All Channel means that stereo sound plays from all 7.1 speakers. Stereo means that it just plays from the front. This I understand.

My question is that both the DTS and Dolby modes also have what they call "Native" mode, which means that the system just outputs the sound coming in without upmixing. So my first question is is there any difference between "Stereo Only" and "Native mode" if the sound signal input is from a DVD with 2-channel audio?

I've read people criticizing people on these forums who mention that they watched a movie by upmixing a 5.1 channel surround movie to 7.1.4. Is there a consensus on this? Is it just the height channels that make a problem with upmixing or is there an issue with upmixing 5.1 to 7.1? What is the issue that people feel happens when you upmix? Is it best to watch movies always in their native sound mix or is upmixing ever valid?

There are several settings under "equalizer". The system has a music mode, movie, mode, game mode, news mode, sports mode, and voice mode. Voice mode is the only one that I understand, since it seems to do some signal processing to clear out any sound that isn't voice. What are the other ones actually doing to the sound? They all have generic descriptions that really doesn't give much detail. If I'm watching a movie does it behoove me to put it on movie mode? Is it different if it's an action movie versus a comedy? What about action TV shows? Is this a giimick or are these settings actually useful?

Thoughts on this are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help with this.

[oddbox83]

There's nothing wrong with upmixing per se, I think you may have read people moaning about certain algorithms. Dolby is quite restrained, whereas DTS upmixing will have dialogue and the lot coming from height channels in it's over-baked efforts to upscale to 3D sound.

Also, a lot of movies encoded as "stereo" would be more accurate if you did upscale. Dolby Stereo was 4 channels of audio matrixed from 2-channels, so it's not accurate to listen to those as 2-channel.

As for what mode - you can use voice if you like but generally I'd say just put it on movie and leave it. That's likely to be the one altering the sound the least.

[Dastari]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

There's nothing wrong with upmixing per se, I think you may have read people moaning about certain algorithms. Dolby is quite restrained, whereas DTS upmixing will have dialogue and the lot coming from height channels in it's over-baked efforts to upscale to 3D sound.

Also, a lot of movies encoded as "stereo" would be more accurate if you did upscale. Dolby Stereo was 4 channels of audio matrixed from 2-channels, so it's not accurate to listen to those as 2-channel.

As for what mode - you can use voice if you like but generally I'd say just put it on movie and leave it. That's likely to be the one altering the sound the least.

It was specifically someone talking about how he didn't need a release of the Nolan Batman trilogy because his system upmixed to 3D surround. People came down hard on him and basically said listening to it in 5.1 was better than upmixing. Of course the Nolan trilogy is DTS so that makes sense based on what you said.

I was talking more about TV shows that legitimately were recorded in stereo (or at least I think so). Is it better to listen to those in Stereo All-Channel mode or should I just upmix?

Can you explain to me what movie mode does that just leaving it without any equalizer settings does? I don't have to have any of these settings applied. There's a "DSP Off" setting where none of these are applied.

Thank you so much for replying though. This is very interesting as I dive into fully utilizing my surround system.

[Scarriere]

Originally Posted by Dastari

It was specifically someone talking about how he didn't need a release of the Nolan Batman trilogy because his system upmixed to 3D surround. People came down hard on him and basically said listening to it in 5.1 was better than upmixing. Of course the Nolan trilogy is DTS so that makes sense based on what you said.

I was talking more about TV shows that legitimately were recorded in stereo (or at least I think so). Is it better to listen to those in Stereo All-Channel mode or should I just upmix?

Can you explain to me what movie mode does that just leaving it without any equalizer settings does? I don't have to have any of these settings applied. There's a "DSP Off" setting where none of these are applied.

Thank you so much for replying though. This is very interesting as I dive into fully utilizing my surround system.

I understand about audio purists wanting to listen to a movie in 5.1 instead of upmixing. But I don't understand criticizing someone else's choice to enjoy it in DSU or Neural, when those two work so well. DSU in particular, is excellent.

Maybe those critics' don't have systems capable of it so don't really know what they're talking about? I've seen that here more than once.
I definitely watch movies upmixed to DSU and Neural when they're only in True or Master.

If I had your system, which is pretty great from what I've read, I'd watch 5.1 tv shows upmixed, but am uncertain how 2.0 shows would be. The upmixers may not be enough for that, maybe? But I don't know for sure. You should try it and share your thoughts.

[red_5ive]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

I understand about audio purists wanting to listen to a movie in 5.1 instead of upmixing. But I don't understand criticizing someone else's choice to enjoy it in DSU or Neural, when those two work so well. DSU in particular, is excellent.

Maybe those critics' don't have systems capable of it so don't really know what they're talking about? I've seen that here more than once.
I definitely watch movies upmixed to DSU and Neural when they're only in True or Master.

If I had your system, which is pretty great from what I've read, I'd watch 5.1 tv shows upmixed, but am uncertain how 2.0 shows would be. The upmixers may not be enough for that, maybe? But I don't know for sure. You should try it and share your thoughts.

I'm with you on that. Not only do I enable upmixing, I also often engage the proprietary Yamaha DSPs, especially for stereo programs. Purists will say all that does is add delay and reverb/echo effects, and probably because that's what they read about it. I can give a rats ass. It adds ambience and makes the room appear larger than it actually is, which is the point of surround and imaging a "sound field" in the first place.

On the flip side though, I am somewhat of purist with music and will only listen to tunes in 2-channel.

[Better in Blu]

Originally Posted by red_5ive

I'm with you on that. Not only do I enable upmixing, I also often engage the proprietary Yamaha DSPs, especially for stereo programs. Purists will say all that does is add delay and reverb/echo effects, and probably because that's what they read about it. I can give a rats ass. It adds ambience and makes the room appear larger than it actually is, which is the point of surround and imaging a "sound field" in the first place.

On the flip side though, I am somewhat of purist with music and will only listen to tunes in 2-channel.

Agreed! Whatever we can do to make our HT more immersive the better, except as in listening to music. Even though I own many SACD's that have multi channel sound, I opted to buy a 2 channel player. I prefer music to be in front of me.

[oddbox83]

I'm not personally familiar with this system, so don't know what it's EQ does beyond the obvious. Maybe DSP off is best if you calibrate it to your room layout (I believe this bar can be)?

Watch whatever way you like. You can watch TV shows in true stereo or whatever takes your fancy. Some bigger budget ones from the 90s may be surround-matrixed anyway (if they haven't already been bumped to 5.1 for DVD/BD).

I upscaled my old Pan's Labyrinth 5.1 Blu-ray to 5.1.2 via Dolby's algorithm, and it sounded so good with 3D effects placed appropriately I commented as much a few years ago in another thread here. A good mix should be a good mix, regardless.