'Guitar Hero' to disappear???

[Petra_Kalbrain]

http://technology.sympatico.msn.ca/G...&abc=abc&date=

I kinda hope this happens so that 'Rock Band' become the official bonafide go-to source for instrument based rythm gaming content.

Also, it would serve Activision right for being such childish pricks by holding the Harmonix PS3 'Rock Band' compatibility patch for the GH peripheral hostage.

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

http://technology.sympatico.msn.ca/G...&abc=abc&date=

I kinda hope this happens so that 'Rock Band' become the official bonafide go-to source for instrument based rythm gaming content.

Also, it would serve Activision right for being such childish pricks by holding the Harmonix PS3 'Rock Band' compatibility patch for the GH peripheral hostage.

Interesting, but...

If GH is guilty, so is RB. BOTH would only be punished in terms of paying a portion of profit to the holder, and the games would keep selling... IF. If not, both would keep selling...

As is, I dont see how this guy would stop at GH if he has a case.

[Mxr5150]

On the contrary, Gibson would be going after Guitar Hero because the controllers are "SGs" and "Les Pauls" whereas the Rock Band Controllers are "Fender Strats". It still seems strange because I was sure Gibson had a stake in Guitar Hero, but who really knows. It's all kind of hinky to me.

[darkpoet25]

This isn't the only lawsuit that was brought up against Activision and Guitar Hero. On Guitar Hero: 80's a band called the Romantics brought up a lawsuit claiming they used a song(I think it was 'What I Like About You') without their permission. I don't think they won though as the game is still in stores. I'm suprised someone hasn't hasn't filed a suit against EA and Harmonix for making crappy peripherals for Rock Band. It seems everyday I keep reading about someone's guitar or drums breaking on them.

[Icemage]

This patent claim from Gibson holds very little water.

The patent in question is patent #5,990,405

A musician can simulate participation in a concert by playing a musical instrument and wearing a head-mounted 3D display that includes stereo speakers. Audio and video portions of a musical concert are pre-recorded, along with a separate sound track corresponding to the musical instrument played by the musician. Playback of the instrument sound track is controlled by signals generated in the musical instrument and transmitted to a system interface box connected to the audio-video play back device, an audio mixer, and the head-mounted display. An external bypass switch allows the musician to suppress the instrument sound track so that the sounds created by actual playing of the musical instrument are heard along with the pre-recorded audio and video portions.

Gibson's patent quite plainly describes a virtual reality device whereby someone playing a REAL guitar can choose to substitute their own guitar playing in lieu of the actual guitar track on a music video of a concert.

That is NOT how Guitar Hero or Rock Band operate. The "instruments" in these games are "guitars" in shape only; no actual musical sounds are produced by the devices.

More specifically, Gibson Guitars' patent goes on to describe in detail:

Originally Posted by Patent description

3. The system of claim 2 wherein the musical instrument is a guitar whereby variations in striking of strings on the guitar by the user produces changes in level of the audio portion of the pre-recorded musical performance on the audio playback transducer.

...

25. A method of a simulating participation by a musician in a recorded concert comprising the steps of

a. playing on a playback device a pre-recorded concert video track in synchronization with a pre-recorded concert sound track and a pre-recorded instrument sound track;

b. separating the instrument sound track from the concert sound track and providing the separated instrument sound track to a control device;

c. varying in the control circuit at least one parameter of the instrument sound track in response to audio signals generated by a musical instrument when played by the musician, thereby generating a controlled instrument sound track; and

d. providing a normal simulation mode in which the controlled instrument sound track and the concert sound track are played on a sound system in synchronization with display of the concert video track.

...

28. An apparatus for controlling playback from a playback device of a pre-recorded instrument sound track in synchronization with a pre-recorded concert sound track and a pre-recorded concert video track comprising:

a. a musical instrument having an instrument audio output;

b. a control circuit connected to the instrument audio output and to the playback device; and

c. the control circuit comprising an instrument track input connected to an instrument track output through a signal conditioning circuit, the signal conditioning circuit responsive to audio signals generated by the musical instrument when the instrument is played whereby the control circuit generates a controlled instrument track signal at the instrument track output.

Boldface emphasis is mine. Gibson can say what they want, but Activision will win their case.

[ikbradley]

Originally Posted by Icemage

This patent claim from Gibson holds very little water.

The patent in question is patent #5,990,405



Gibson's patent quite plainly describes a virtual reality device whereby someone playing a REAL guitar can choose to substitute their own guitar playing in lieu of the actual guitar track on a music video of a concert.

That is NOT how Guitar Hero or Rock Band operate. The "instruments" in these games are "guitars" in shape only; no actual musical sounds are produced by the devices.

More specifically, Gibson Guitars' patent goes on to describe in detail:



Boldface emphasis is mine. Gibson can say what they want, but Activision will win their case.

Good analysis.

Gibson really wants to just settle this out of court and get some extra cash. It is a gigantic company that bullies others into submission. They have had several questionable lawsuits. The shape and design argument was visited by them over two decades ago over Japanese Les Paul reproductions, etc.

Prolly' should concentrate on producing a decent instrument with frets that don't slice open fingers because their quality control is so piss poor.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by darkpoet25

This isn't the only lawsuit that was brought up against Activision and Guitar Hero. On Guitar Hero: 80's a band called the Romantics brought up a lawsuit claiming they used a song(I think it was 'What I Like About You') without their permission. I don't think they won though as the game is still in stores. I'm suprised someone hasn't hasn't filed a suit against EA and Harmonix for making crappy peripherals for Rock Band. It seems everyday I keep reading about someone's guitar or drums breaking on them.

Just FYI, they didn't say that the Romantics song was used without permission, they said it sounded too much like the original and thus went beyond the "cover version" they were authorized to use.

[hardcore_canadian]

This patent ingringment stuff s really stupid. People are soooo Sue-ing Happy these days....Kinda funny

[Icemage]

Would you like to know how Activision and/or Harmonix can implode Gibson's lawsuit?

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/f/...02141524140047

Watch that video and laugh hysterically, given the boldface items I mentioned above.

[darkpoet25]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Just FYI, they didn't say that the Romantics song was used without permission, they said it sounded too much like the original and thus went beyond the "cover version" they were authorized to use.

Oh ok, got it. I remember seeing this is on Yahoo news and I may have misread it. Thanks for the clarity.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by Icemage

This patent claim from Gibson holds very little water.

The patent in question is patent #5,990,405

You left out their broadest claim though:

1. A system for electronically simulating participation by a user in a pre-recorded musical performance comprising:

a. a musical instrument, the musical instrument generating an instrument audio signal at an instrument audio output, the instrument audio signal varying in response to operation of the instrument by the user of the system;

b. a video source providing a source video signal at a source video output, the source video signal representing a video portion of the pre-recorded musical performance;

c. a video display responsive to the source video signal whereby the user can view the video portion of the pre-recorded musical performance on the video display;

d. an audio source providing a source audio signal at a source audio output, the source audio signal representing an audio portion of the pre-recorded musical performance, the audio portion including an instrument sound track containing pre-recorded musical sounds that would be generated by the musical instrument in the pre-recorded musical performance;

e. a system interface device having a first audio input electrically connected to the instrument audio output, a second audio input electrically connected to the source audio output, and a first interface audio output;

f. the system interface device including a source audio control circuit responsive to the instrument audio signal, whereby a characteristic of the source audio signal is controlled in response to operation of the musical instrument by the user to provide a controlled source audio signal at the first interface audio output; and

g. an audio playback transducer responsive to the controlled source audio signal such that the user can listen to the audio portion of the pre-recorded musical performance on the transducer, in synchronization with the video portion.

I agree with your conclusion, but it's not as guaranteed as you make it... One of the interesting questions is whether or not the guitar in GH generates an "audio signal". Although it doesn't in a traditional sense, notes are skipped if you miss them on the guitar, so arguably it might.

Not saying I agree with this position, just trying to point out a possible argument...

[quaylie]

Originally Posted by darkpoet25

This isn't the only lawsuit that was brought up against Activision and Guitar Hero. On Guitar Hero: 80's a band called the Romantics brought up a lawsuit claiming they used a song(I think it was 'What I Like About You') without their permission. I don't think they won though as the game is still in stores. I'm suprised someone hasn't hasn't filed a suit against EA and Harmonix for making crappy peripherals for Rock Band. It seems everyday I keep reading about someone's guitar or drums breaking on them.

The Romantics case was thrown out by a judge..had no merit.

[Ops2p]

Originally Posted by Icemage

Would you like to know how Activision and/or Harmonix can implode Gibson's lawsuit?

http://www.gamesradar.com/xbox360/f/...02141524140047

Watch that video and laugh hysterically, given the boldface items I mentioned above.

Play that video in court and it's game over. GH wins. lmao by the way

On a side note get a kick out of this kid who got 840K

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-XjaImfQK6U&feature=related

[Thegide]

This one probably hits closer to Gibson's patent:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/g...guitars-genre/

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Jonty

You left out their broadest claim though:

I agree with your conclusion, but it's not as guaranteed as you make it... One of the interesting questions is whether or not the guitar in GH generates an "audio signal". Although it doesn't in a traditional sense, notes are skipped if you miss them on the guitar, so arguably it might.

Not saying I agree with this position, just trying to point out a possible argument...

Even here they would run afoul of item 1a "a musical instrument, the musical instrument generating an instrument audio signal at an instrument audio output, the instrument audio signal varying in response to operation of the instrument by the user of the system"

The guitar controllers on both Guitar Hero and Rock Band produce no audio signals whatsoever. They're no more an audio device than your computer keyboard is.