The Little Mermaid - a look into off-model Ariel - Blu-ray Forum

Mermen79 · 03-20-2008, 06:08 AM

One of my all time favourite films is Disney's The Little Mermaid. A few weeks ago, someone here talked about characters often going off model in Beauty and the Beast. I haven't seen that film in years so I can't remember. It made me interested to look for off-model scenes of Ariel in The Little Mermaid. I've seen the film hundreds of times so it was very easy for me to catch when the animator was different and went off-model. I decided to screen cap them here for discussion.

First off, I'll start with screens of Ariel IN model. You will see a consistency between all of them:

Look at the beautiful animation above before looking at the ones I found to be off-model.

OFF-MODEL

Granted, this is just what I see. I could be completely wrong. What do you all think? I was bored and wanted to do a deep observation of Ariel's animation in this famous film. Oh, and I apologise for the subtitles in one of the pictures.

Sylin · 03-20-2008, 06:13 PM

Ya know, if you slap some blond hair on the picture with the subtitles, it looks an awful lot like Disney's new Tinker Bell movie character.

I've never really paid attention to on-model or off-model... I just sit back and enjoy the movie. But keen observations, tho!

David Mamet · 03-20-2008, 06:16 PM

"Suck me beautiful".

Chaka · 03-20-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylin

Ya know, if you slap some blond hair on the picture with the subtitles, it looks an awful lot like Disney's new Tinker Bell movie character.

I've never really paid attention to on-model or off-model... I just sit back and enjoy the movie. But keen observations, tho!

Having seen the trailer from Enchanted, I thought Disney is going for the Bratz look with the characters. They all have abnormally large breasts and bare mids showing.

What kind of world are we living in when Disney is starting to do this?

pedigree · 03-20-2008, 06:24 PM

i dont get it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mamet

"Suck me beautiful".

and ur weird

Bango · 03-20-2008, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka

Having seen the trailer from Enchanted, I thought Disney is going for the Bratz look with the characters. They all have abnormally large breasts and bare mids showing.

What kind of world are we living in when Disney is starting to do this?

The chick from enchanted doesn't even have breasts...

David Mamet · 03-20-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedigree

i dont get it....

and ur weird

American Pie

Chaka · 03-20-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bango

The chick from enchanted doesn't even have breasts...

I am talking about the trailer for Tinkerbell.

Entertainment72 · 03-20-2008, 06:53 PM

Did I just finish going through this whole thread?

Joe Cain · 03-20-2008, 07:04 PM

Yeah, why is this under "Blu-ray Movies & Releases" anyway?

Ferris · 03-20-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mamet

American Pie

I was waiting for an American Pie reference...

Mermen79 · 03-20-2008, 10:17 PM

^em, interesting posts. I posted this here cos Disney titles are often discussed. Sorry if it is inappropiate.

As for the picture with the subtitles, yes she does look like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. The faces are the same (the smile).

I was hoping for more discussing about animation but this thread is getting hijacked.

sonicbox · 03-20-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djepic112

^em, interesting posts. I posted this here cos Disney titles are often discussed. Sorry if it is inappropiate.

As for the picture with the subtitles, yes she does look like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. The faces are the same (the smile).

I was hoping for more discussing about animation but this thread is getting hijacked.

If it is supposed to be about animation and not a specific announced Blu-ray disc, you are in the wrong forum... so what do you expect?

Sylin · 03-21-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicbox

If it is supposed to be about animation and not a specific announced Blu-ray disc, you are in the wrong forum... so what do you expect?

Pay no attention to the thread-crapper behind the curtain.

If the mods want to move it, they'll move it. I, for one, know what the OP is trying to get at here, and I'd like to see some more examples from other movies if anyone has any. This has got me curious.

The Lion King · 03-21-2008, 04:18 AM

I too, love The Little Mermaid. I don't really think those frame-grabs you posted are particularly off-model, it just shows that in 1989 (or whenever it was produced) it would've been very hard to keep a character 100% on-model for 100% of the time, particularly in fast-moving sequences (like you posted there). I never really noticed her being off-model in the movie, but perhaps the Blu-Ray release will show it more evidently.

Mermen79 · 03-21-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lion King

I don't really think those frame-grabs you posted are particularly off-model, it just shows that in 1989 (or whenever it was produced) it would've been very hard to keep a character 100% on-model for 100% of the time, particularly in fast-moving sequences (like you posted there).

The only screen shot that is in fast motion is the one where she is on the ground (and possibly the one where she is screaming). The others last for a full scene and she appears like that the whole time. Also, many of the other fast moving scenes still have her retain her model-appearance (her spinning with flounder is really fast, her changing to human, being chased by the shark, etc.). The head animators just let a few of those scenes pass by when they shouldn't have considering it was such a huge production.

bix105 · 03-21-2008, 05:02 AM

can someone explain this terminology plz

Mermen79 · 03-21-2008, 05:14 AM

^ I was trying to figure it out too when I first read it. Since I knew a little about animation, I figured it out rather quickly (didn't know the term for the idea I had in my head).

I thought the pictures would explain. Do you not see anything different about the lower set? Only strong observers, animators, and big fans will notice obviously but I think the average person should see it too. Off-model means the character changes appearance (slightly in the face) at certain scenes. If the production was good, it would be minimum or none, but if it's a cheap one you'll see the animation all over the place.

When the character designers set on a final look for let's say Ariel, he/she draws a model sheet with Ariel from the front, side, back, slightly turned, various emotions, etc as a guide for the dozens of other animations that work on the film. Obviously the head animator can't draw Ariel in the entire film so he has to train the other people to keep Ariel's look consistent.

Another example that is recent is Cinderella 3. John Lasser raised the bar of production quality and the animators in Australia were given strict model sheets of the characters. I would agree that the characters in Cind 3 look like an updated version of the original. Compare it to the horrible animation of Cinderella 2 or the other bad Disney sequels. The characters only have superficial similarities with the original. Something just doesn't look right.

Does any of that make sense?

p.s. I added a new screen cap of an ON-MODEL gasping Ariel. Compare that to the scene right before it.

WJ007 · 03-21-2008, 02:58 PM

If I remember correctly they used a young Allissa Miliano as a reference when they came up with Ariel.
It still looks like her to me.

PA_Kid · 03-21-2008, 03:09 PM

Anyone ever notice that The Little Mermaid completely rips off word-for-word the scene in Footloose where the preacher father sends Ariel to her room?

Another one of those funny things you find - I'm serious, the two scenes have the exact same dialogue for 4-5 lines...

03-20-2008, 06:08 AM	#1
Mermen79 Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	The Little Mermaid - a look into off-model Ariel One of my all time favourite films is Disney's The Little Mermaid. A few weeks ago, someone here talked about characters often going off model in Beauty and the Beast. I haven't seen that film in years so I can't remember. It made me interested to look for off-model scenes of Ariel in The Little Mermaid. I've seen the film hundreds of times so it was very easy for me to catch when the animator was different and went off-model. I decided to screen cap them here for discussion. First off, I'll start with screens of Ariel IN model. You will see a consistency between all of them: Look at the beautiful animation above before looking at the ones I found to be off-model. OFF-MODEL Granted, this is just what I see. I could be completely wrong. What do you all think? I was bored and wanted to do a deep observation of Ariel's animation in this famous film. Oh, and I apologise for the subtitles in one of the pictures. Last edited by Mermen79; 03-21-2008 at 05:20 AM.

03-21-2008, 05:14 AM	#18
Mermen79 Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	^ I was trying to figure it out too when I first read it. Since I knew a little about animation, I figured it out rather quickly (didn't know the term for the idea I had in my head). I thought the pictures would explain. Do you not see anything different about the lower set? Only strong observers, animators, and big fans will notice obviously but I think the average person should see it too. Off-model means the character changes appearance (slightly in the face) at certain scenes. If the production was good, it would be minimum or none, but if it's a cheap one you'll see the animation all over the place. When the character designers set on a final look for let's say Ariel, he/she draws a model sheet with Ariel from the front, side, back, slightly turned, various emotions, etc as a guide for the dozens of other animations that work on the film. Obviously the head animator can't draw Ariel in the entire film so he has to train the other people to keep Ariel's look consistent. Another example that is recent is Cinderella 3. John Lasser raised the bar of production quality and the animators in Australia were given strict model sheets of the characters. I would agree that the characters in Cind 3 look like an updated version of the original. Compare it to the horrible animation of Cinderella 2 or the other bad Disney sequels. The characters only have superficial similarities with the original. Something just doesn't look right. Does any of that make sense? p.s. I added a new screen cap of an ON-MODEL gasping Ariel. Compare that to the scene right before it. Last edited by Mermen79; 03-21-2008 at 07:26 AM.

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03-20-2008, 06:13 PM	#2
Sylin Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Nashville Blu-ray collection:1 Trading Score:159	Ya know, if you slap some blond hair on the picture with the subtitles, it looks an awful lot like Disney's new Tinker Bell movie character. I've never really paid attention to on-model or off-model... I just sit back and enjoy the movie. But keen observations, tho!

03-20-2008, 06:16 PM	#3
David Mamet Senior Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Los Angeles, CA Blu-ray collection:4	"Suck me beautiful".

03-20-2008, 06:53 PM	#9
Entertainment72 Special Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Fort Myers, FL Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews:1	Did I just finish going through this whole thread?

03-20-2008, 07:04 PM	#10
Joe Cain Power Member Member since:Sep 2007 Location:The Tragic City Blu-ray collection:79	Yeah, why is this under "Blu-ray Movies & Releases" anyway?

03-20-2008, 10:17 PM	#12
Mermen79 Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	^em, interesting posts. I posted this here cos Disney titles are often discussed. Sorry if it is inappropiate. As for the picture with the subtitles, yes she does look like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. The faces are the same (the smile). I was hoping for more discussing about animation but this thread is getting hijacked.

03-21-2008, 04:18 AM	#15
The Lion King Special Member Member since:Mar 2008 Location:Somewhere you aren't. Blu-ray collection:48 Blu-ray reviews:20	I too, love The Little Mermaid. I don't really think those frame-grabs you posted are particularly off-model, it just shows that in 1989 (or whenever it was produced) it would've been very hard to keep a character 100% on-model for 100% of the time, particularly in fast-moving sequences (like you posted there). I never really noticed her being off-model in the movie, but perhaps the Blu-Ray release will show it more evidently.

03-21-2008, 05:02 AM	#17
bix105 Active Member Member since:Feb 2008 Trading Score:1	can someone explain this terminology plz

03-21-2008, 02:58 PM	#19
WJ007 Active Member Member since:Dec 2007 Trading Score:6	If I remember correctly they used a young Allissa Miliano as a reference when they came up with Ariel. It still looks like her to me.

03-21-2008, 03:09 PM	#20
PA_Kid Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX	Anyone ever notice that The Little Mermaid completely rips off word-for-word the scene in Footloose where the preacher father sends Ariel to her room? Another one of those funny things you find - I'm serious, the two scenes have the exact same dialogue for 4-5 lines...

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