Bitrate Gripe - Blu-ray Forum

sparksj · 03-26-2008, 01:06 AM

Before I post my question, let me just say that I really love my new Blu Ray player (PS3). I even posted this thread a while back:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=43061

But I do have one gquestion. As former HD DVD fan I kept hearing about how BR had a max video bitrate of 40 Mbps compared to HD DVD's 28 Mbps. This was given as a major reason why BR PQ looked better.

Well, now that I have my PS3, I have watched several movies with the bitrate meter on just to see what the bitrate was. So far I have watched the following movies:
Blade Runner
POTC Dead Man's Chest
T2
Casino Royal
I am Legend
Dan in Real Life

In all cases the bitrate hovered around 19-22 Mbps for 98% of the movie with the highest peak I saw of only 27 Mbps which occured just for a second.

From the looks of it, HD DVD could have handled the same bitrates.

Do I have something set up incorrectly, or have I just not seen the higher bitrate movies yet?

Again, I'm completely happy with the PQ of BR. It's just that bitrate was the number one reason I kept hearing as proof that BR PQ was better. So far I haven't seen any bitrates that HD DVD couldn't also have achieved. Of course, my HD DVD player didn't have a meter, so it's possible that it averaged 10-15 Mbps.

On the other hand, I do realize the fact that it means that BR can eventually hit 40 Mbps, So it doesn't have the limitation that HD DVD had. But if none of them have yet, then one can't use that as a reason that BR was better than HD DVD until the movies actually achieved that max rate. That being said, there are many other reasons that Blu Ray is better than HD DVD. My point in this thread is that Bitrate shouldn't have been one of them.

Am I just being too picky???

ryoohki · 03-26-2008, 01:09 AM

Blade Runner
POTC Dead Man's Chest
T2
Casino Royal
I am Legend
Dan in Real Life

Blade Runner = HD DVD Encode
T2 = One of the first MPEG2 encode. VRB 18mbits - 25go disc
I am Legend = HD DVD Encode
Casino Royal = Peak High enought

Try getting FOX title like Simpsons or any recent one... they usually around 36mbits... and Disney over at 38mbits Peak...

owa · 03-26-2008, 01:14 AM

Yeah, try some of the Fox titles. Using titles from Warner doesn't do any good since they're encoded with HD DVD in mind.

There are some titles that even go past 40 but I've read that the PS3 meter is just a general idea of the bitrate (i.e. don't bet on the accuracy of the numbers).

patrick99 · 03-26-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by owa

Yeah, try some of the Fox titles. Using titles from Warner doesn't do any good since they're encoded with HD DVD in mind.

There are some titles that even go past 40 but I've read that the PS3 meter is just a general idea of the bitrate (i.e. don't bet on the accuracy of the numbers).

Post-hiatus Fox releases take better advantage of BD's bitrate potential. Warner's bitrates, and the resulting mediocre PQ, are a bad joke.

tommyboy81 · 03-26-2008, 01:09 AM

You might want to watch PotC again. Its a lot higher than that

WickyWoo · 03-26-2008, 01:11 AM

you may just be looking at the video rate. You forgot to add in the lossless audio on top of that. Easily pops it out in the 30s after lossless and the dub tracks

sparksj · 03-26-2008, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

you may just be looking at the video rate. You forgot to add in the lossless audio on top of that. Easily pops it out in the 30s after lossless and the dub tracks

Yes, I understand that part of it. Lossless sound was always a legitimate reason that BR was better. I'm focusing more on video bitrate at this point. ryoohki has a good point thought. Most of the ones I'm watching are HD DVD recodes.

I'm probably just being too picky. I should just enjoy the movies and my newly upgraded profile 2.0 BR-Live

PS3, and quick worrying about the technical crap.

ryoohki · 03-26-2008, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparksj

Yes, I understand that part of it. Lossless sound was always a legitimate reason that BR was better. I'm focusing more on video bitrate at this point. ryoohki has a good point thought. Most of the ones I'm watching are HD DVD recodes.

I'm probably just being too picky. I should just enjoy the movies and my newly upgraded profile 2.0 BR-Live

PS3, and quick worrying about the technical crap.

The thing is .. i vary a lot Blu-ray can paek at 40mbits for video and 50mbits combined... so theirs already the headroom for Audio... and PIP for example.

Prison Break on Bluray have a Awesomely high bitrate (theirs an error on the box) + DTS HD MA 5.1...

owa · 03-26-2008, 01:18 AM

Pathfinder probably isn't the greatest example but it's average bitrate is 38 mbs (mpeg-2 title though).

sparksj · 03-26-2008, 01:25 AM

Based on the fact that many dual release BR movies are encoded based on HD DVD limits, I sure hope they create the Transformers BR from scratch and don't just encode the HD DVD version.

The other movies I can't wait for are Batman, and Band of Brothers.
I hope they release them soon. Guess I'll keep an eye on the movie release thread.

stockstar1138 · 03-26-2008, 01:17 AM

Blu-ray does have a higher maximum bitrate, however the movie is not going to constantly run at that high of a bitrate. Unless there is a lot of movement and action in a shot, there is no need for a bitrate to go that high. Bladerunner, T2, and I Am Legend are all have to cater to HD DVDs lower bitrates though, so you will never see those flicks exceed the HD DVD max. Movies like Dan in Real Life that are pretty slow paced won't exceed it either. Go back though and watch some of those action scenes from Pirates and Casion Royale they will hit that 30-40 range and thats when those higher bitrates are needed the most for a clean smooth action intense picture.

The HD DVD ports from WB that I have run consistantly run at 15 Mbps, if you were curious.

03-26-2008, 01:06 AM	#1
sparksj Active Member Member since:Nov 2007	Bitrate Gripe Before I post my question, let me just say that I really love my new Blu Ray player (PS3). I even posted this thread a while back: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=43061 But I do have one gquestion. As former HD DVD fan I kept hearing about how BR had a max video bitrate of 40 Mbps compared to HD DVD's 28 Mbps. This was given as a major reason why BR PQ looked better. Well, now that I have my PS3, I have watched several movies with the bitrate meter on just to see what the bitrate was. So far I have watched the following movies: Blade Runner POTC Dead Man's Chest T2 Casino Royal I am Legend Dan in Real Life In all cases the bitrate hovered around 19-22 Mbps for 98% of the movie with the highest peak I saw of only 27 Mbps which occured just for a second. From the looks of it, HD DVD could have handled the same bitrates. Do I have something set up incorrectly, or have I just not seen the higher bitrate movies yet? Again, I'm completely happy with the PQ of BR. It's just that bitrate was the number one reason I kept hearing as proof that BR PQ was better. So far I haven't seen any bitrates that HD DVD couldn't also have achieved. Of course, my HD DVD player didn't have a meter, so it's possible that it averaged 10-15 Mbps. On the other hand, I do realize the fact that it means that BR can eventually hit 40 Mbps, So it doesn't have the limitation that HD DVD had. But if none of them have yet, then one can't use that as a reason that BR was better than HD DVD until the movies actually achieved that max rate. That being said, there are many other reasons that Blu Ray is better than HD DVD. My point in this thread is that Bitrate shouldn't have been one of them. Am I just being too picky???

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03-26-2008, 01:09 AM	#2
ryoohki Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2007 Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:6 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:5	Blade Runner POTC Dead Man's Chest T2 Casino Royal I am Legend Dan in Real Life Blade Runner = HD DVD Encode T2 = One of the first MPEG2 encode. VRB 18mbits - 25go disc I am Legend = HD DVD Encode Casino Royal = Peak High enought Try getting FOX title like Simpsons or any recent one... they usually around 36mbits... and Disney over at 38mbits Peak...

03-26-2008, 01:14 AM	#3
owa Blu-ray Knight Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 96	Yeah, try some of the Fox titles. Using titles from Warner doesn't do any good since they're encoded with HD DVD in mind. There are some titles that even go past 40 but I've read that the PS3 meter is just a general idea of the bitrate (i.e. don't bet on the accuracy of the numbers).

03-26-2008, 01:09 AM	#5
tommyboy81 Blu-ray Count Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Savannah, GA Home Theater Gallery:17 Blu-ray collection:93 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:2	You might want to watch PotC again. Its a lot higher than that

03-26-2008, 01:11 AM	#6
WickyWoo Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2007 Trading Score:2	you may just be looking at the video rate. You forgot to add in the lossless audio on top of that. Easily pops it out in the 30s after lossless and the dub tracks

03-26-2008, 01:18 AM	#9
owa Blu-ray Knight Member since:Apr 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 96	Pathfinder probably isn't the greatest example but it's average bitrate is 38 mbs (mpeg-2 title though).

03-26-2008, 01:25 AM	#10
sparksj Active Member Member since:Nov 2007	Based on the fact that many dual release BR movies are encoded based on HD DVD limits, I sure hope they create the Transformers BR from scratch and don't just encode the HD DVD version. The other movies I can't wait for are Batman, and Band of Brothers. I hope they release them soon. Guess I'll keep an eye on the movie release thread.

03-26-2008, 01:17 AM	#11
stockstar1138 Banned Member since:Apr 2007	Blu-ray does have a higher maximum bitrate, however the movie is not going to constantly run at that high of a bitrate. Unless there is a lot of movement and action in a shot, there is no need for a bitrate to go that high. Bladerunner, T2, and I Am Legend are all have to cater to HD DVDs lower bitrates though, so you will never see those flicks exceed the HD DVD max. Movies like Dan in Real Life that are pretty slow paced won't exceed it either. Go back though and watch some of those action scenes from Pirates and Casion Royale they will hit that 30-40 range and thats when those higher bitrates are needed the most for a clean smooth action intense picture. The HD DVD ports from WB that I have run consistantly run at 15 Mbps, if you were curious.

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