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Old 03-31-2008, 11:04 PM   #1
PaulGo PaulGo is offline
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Default With Cable TV Quality Going Down the Tubes Blu-ray is The Only HD Choice

I have been following (and contributing) the thread on AVs as to how cable companies are reducing the signal quality to so the can put more channels in their limited bandwidth. It seems if you really want to enjoy high definition on a large screen television Blu-ray is your only choice. I am really upset about the quality how the quality of HD cable channels is going down the tubes!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:07 PM   #2
mgonzo2u mgonzo2u is offline
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What?

Cable has long sucked donkey danglers.

If you are not receiving DirecTV HD, you are not experiencing HD TV.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:09 PM   #3
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post
I have been following (and contributing) the thread on AVs as to how cable companies are reducing the signal quality to so the can put more channels in their limited bandwidth. It seems if you really want to enjoy high definition on a large screen television Blu-ray is your only choice. I am really upset about the quality how the quality of HD cable channels is going down the tubes!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008271
BLU-RAY is the best quality for HD then Verizon FIOS and a outdoor antenna is second place. Verizon FIOS picture looks as good or better then a 10 foot C-band picture. C-band would also be second place for quality. Most cable companies and the mini dish companies would be third place since they have lower bit rates with more digital artifacts.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:11 PM   #4
Brian Cash Brian Cash is offline
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uverse is very good but since its so new they still have some kinks to work out
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:11 PM   #5
mgonzo2u mgonzo2u is offline
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Good luck getting FIOS in your neighborhood.

DTV is there for all and NEVER work with AT&T (Uverse). AT&T are friggen thieves.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Cash View Post
uverse is very good but since its so new they still have some kinks to work out
My friend has Uverse, but gets serious macroblocking and artifacts.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:15 PM   #7
HDTV1080P HDTV1080P is offline
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Some people that want the best just rent and purchase BLU-RAY discs and then subscribe to Internet service from the local cable company. The local HD channels like NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, and others can be received for free in full HD with a outdoor TV antenna with a rotor or a good indoor attic or other indoor antenna (All depends on how far away one is from the station). With a built in QAM tuner in ones HD display one can pickup the local HD channels on cable at the same quality or reduced quality compared to a TV antenna (quality varies by cable company).

Last edited by HDTV1080P; 03-31-2008 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:26 PM   #8
g217814 g217814 is offline
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Cable TV does suck! I'm hoping Verizon FIOS TV will be available later this year in our area but right now I'm stuck with Directv (its not bad..better than Cable). I found this link that compares Apple tv HD and SD with Bluray, CableTV HD and DVD. If you look at the close-up examples you can see just how bad cable's HD version really is. There lack of bandwidth is really starting to show as they try and squeeze more out of such a small pipe.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/art...he-comparison/
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:30 PM   #9
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DirecTV and Dish Network HD are far behind to be a good HD source. I own DN HD and they still have a long road to walk to offer a good HD quality. I agree, Blu-ray is the media of choice when talking about High Definition...
Best,
DJ Headd
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:33 PM   #10
savage1984 savage1984 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P View Post
Some people that want the best just rent and purchase BLU-RAY discs and then subscribe to Internet service from the local cable company. The local HD channels like NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, and others can be received for free in full HD with a outdoor TV antenna with a rotor or a good indoor attic or other indoor antenna (All depends on how far away one is from the station). With a built in QAM tuner in ones HD display one can pickup the local HD channels on cable at the same quality or reduced quality compared to a TV antenna (quality varies by cable company).
The only problem with an outdoor antenna is you get cut-outs (loss of signal) Being that I use one for local channels, I experience it first hand. I will have a great signal "76" one second and the next second it cuts to a yellow box saying it lost the signal. Extremely frustrating especially when watching sports, Like March Madness
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:09 AM   #11
Marquoz Marquoz is offline
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I've used cox cable for the last maybe 8 years, and only twice did I suffer interuptions, once was after there were two hurricanes that hit (Oddly it was AFTER they both had passed over), and the second time was after Katrina (I don't think I cared that I didn't have cable then though). I've never had a problem with their channels other then once in a blue moon the on demand not working right. I've suffered downtime on their internet once other then those two previously mentioned times.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:19 PM   #12
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In my former home I received HDTV signals via both an outside terresterial antenna and the Dish Network. A coax connected the terrestial antenna directly to my Pioneer Pro 510HD CRT. Another coax cable went from a Dish Network set of dishes to a Dish Network receiver and then from the receiver to a Denon AVR-4800 via coax cable. The AVR-4800 was cabled to the Pro 510HD via video component and audio digital coaxial cable.

Today, I have Cox Digital Cable as my provider. The signal is put to a Scientific Atlanta STB 4240HDC by coax cable and from the STB via HDMI to a Pioneer VSX-82TXS AVR and then onto a LG Plasma 50PC1DRA HDTV via HDMI cable.

The image and audio received on all programming through the Cox Digital Cable company using my present equipment and HDMI cables is vastly superior to what it was using the Dish satillite and terrestrial antenna systems. This is true for both HDTV and non HDTV programming.

Blu-ray discs are even more spedtacular going from the blu-ray player to the AVR and then to the HDTV via HDMI.

Last edited by carbuff; 04-01-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:24 PM   #13
SilverFireshot SilverFireshot is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by djheadd View Post
DirecTV and Dish Network HD are far behind to be a good HD source. I own DN HD and they still have a long road to walk to offer a good HD quality. I agree, Blu-ray is the media of choice when talking about High Definition...
Best,
DJ Headd
Sorry but DirecTV's HD is far and away better than Dish Network in quality and quantity. You can' t bunch them together as equal HD providers yet.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:42 PM   #14
tron3 tron3 is offline
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I get HD OTA. (Over the Air). As of late it does seem they are fudging with the signal as I am getting some digital distortion. They will just have to learn that compression isn't going to save them. You have the bandwidth you have - that's it. In the end they will fix it. How can you argue with free HD TV?
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:42 PM   #15
PaulGo PaulGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquoz View Post
I've used cox cable for the last maybe 8 years, and only twice did I suffer interuptions, once was after there were two hurricanes that hit (Oddly it was AFTER they both had passed over), and the second time was after Katrina (I don't think I cared that I didn't have cable then though). I've never had a problem with their channels other then once in a blue moon the on demand not working right. I've suffered downtime on their internet once other then those two previously mentioned times.
Cox is one of the exceptions and is being very active in improving their bandwidth to potentially 3 GHZ! They are employing technology by Vyyo Corporation called "Spectrum Overlay". I hope the other cable companies will employ similar technology so they can improve their HD quality.

http://www.cable360.net/ct/news/thewire/22781.html

Last edited by PaulGo; 04-01-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:44 PM   #16
Spankey Spankey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverFireshot View Post
Sorry but DirecTV's HD is far and away better than Dish Network in quality and quantity. You can' t bunch them together as equal HD providers yet.
Absolutely correct. Directv is as good as OTA, at least on the MPEG4 channels which outnumber , by far, the very few remaining MPEG2 channels.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:48 PM   #17
PaulGo PaulGo is offline
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From the NY Times:
Comcast’s Blurry High Definition Picture

By Saul Hansell

Not only has Comcast been slowing down Internet users exchanging files with the BitTorrent protocol, it has been quietly reducing the quality of some high definition television networks it carries as well.

Most people will hardly notice the change, and the HD channels affected are still a lot better looking that standard definition signals. But Ken Fowler, a devoted high definition video aficionado did. He had Verizon’s FIOS video offering. But he also signed up for Comcast’s service in order to watch the Washington Nationals in high definition. On some networks carried by both operators, Mr. Fowler noticed that the picture quality on Comcast was inferior.

“I noticed that there was more blurring in the movement and less detail on the screen,” he said. Mr. Fowler, a financial analyst by profession, started to measure the difference between the Comcast and FIOS systems. He posted the results on AV Science Forum, a Web site for hardcore video buffs.

In images he posted, MTV and Discovery, among others, are distinctly more blurry or blotchy than those on FIOS. This occurred mainly in scenes with rapidly moving images. This makes sense as video compression systems eliminate redundant information from one image to the next, which is fine for talking heads and such, but too much compression distorts pictures of sports and other action scenes.

Mr. Fowler recorded some of these programs and found that for some channels, Comcast was transmitting 20 to 35 percent less information. Some networks, including ESPN and the major broadcast networks were not degraded, he found.

Jenni Moyer, a Comcast spokeswoman, confirmed that the company, like all cable and satellite systems, does compress its signals, but it tries hard to maintain the quality.

“Compression is a reality: We use it and other providers use it,” she said. “Our goal is not to have any kind of noticeable impact on picture quality.”

At issue here is how cable systems manage the increasing number of networks broadcasting in high definition, given the limited capacity of their networks. Cable systems are roughly divided into 6Mhz channels, each representing the amount of space one traditional analog signal would occupy. Digital cable can squeeze ten to twelve signals of standard-definition TV in one of these channels. Until recently, most cable systems put two high-definition stations in each channel.

Now Comcast is putting three signals into some of its channels. And that causes it to compress the signals more.

Comcast is not alone. Time Warner is also starting to put three high-definition networks on some of its channels.

This made me wonder whether we are going to lose some of those wonderful networks that the compression of digital cable have given us, Animal Planet, Tennis, D.I.Y., Soap and so on—because the move to HD will use all the bandwidth these networks are using.

Not so, cable experts say. The easy way to free up space on a cable system is to eliminate the remaining few dozen analog channels. This will require more people to get digital set top boxes, but some systems, including FIOS are doing this to make more space for HD channels. Also, there is technology called switched video that changes which networks are on what channels depending on what people in a given neighborhood are actually watching. Proponents say that this approach can handle an infinite number of networks, even in high definition.


http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ref=technology
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:06 PM   #18
whippersnapper whippersnapper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g217814 View Post
Cable TV does suck! I'm hoping Verizon FIOS TV will be available later this year in our area but right now I'm stuck with Directv (its not bad..better than Cable). I found this link that compares Apple tv HD and SD with Bluray, CableTV HD and DVD. If you look at the close-up examples you can see just how bad cable's HD version really is. There lack of bandwidth is really starting to show as they try and squeeze more out of such a small pipe.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/art...he-comparison/
We were stuck using Comcast cable, with its high monopolistic driven prices, crappy picture quality and even crappier customer service for many years. Then Verizon FiOS came to our neighborhood (in Howard County, Maryland) and I ordered that service the first day they began to take orders. It's been night & day; lower prices, better HDTV picture quality with none of the service problems that Comcast presented. So now we use Blu-ray for most of our home movies and Verizon FiOS for sports and the television offerings we like. Just about everything is available in HD. We are in HD & Blu heaven now.

Just about everyone in out neighborhood has now converted to FiOS (you can't help but notice the newly planted grass growing where Verizon has run the fiber optic cable to the houses of its new customers. I predict that Verizon is going to "clean house" in every area where they go into an area where Comcast formerly ruled.
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:10 PM   #19
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I switched from Comcast HD to FiOS and couldn't be happier. The picture is much better and I don't have the bandwidth issues I had with Comcast. For some reason, every time I watched 'Over the Hedge' on HBO HD, the credits would be one big green box. For some reason, their compressor had a major problem compressing that info. I watched it again as soon as I got FiOS, and not only was the picture clearer, but also no blocking!
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:51 PM   #20
PaulGo PaulGo is offline
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Study: Video Quality Monitoring Is Key

Symmetricom has released its 2007 Cable Operator Video Quality Study, an independent survey conducted by Multimedia Research Group, assessing cable operators' requirements for video quality test, measurement and monitoring solutions. The study indicates that video quality monitoring continues to be central.

Some results:

• 90.4 percent reported end-user video quality monitoring as either "critical," "very important," or "important" to their video initiatives.
• 61.9 percent said they learn of video quality problems via customer phone calls; only 31 percent said they use network monitoring tools to discover quality problems.
• 80 percent said service quality problems are the reasons for high support calls.
• 58.1 percent said that end-user quality of experience is "critical" and needs to be monitored.
• 68 percent said that cost is the biggest reason for customer churn, while service quality problems were next with 40 percent.

http://www.cable360.net/technology/28911.html
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