Best Disney 2-D Theatrical Film?

[The Lion King]

I was bored...

I went with The Lion King. For obvious reasons. The greatest animated movie in history, and tied with Kill Bill and The Shawshank Redemption for being the greatest movie ever.

Rating them on what I think of the ones I've seen:

1. The Lion King - A+++++++++++++++++ (and so on and so forth)
2. The Little Mermaid - A++
3. Aladdin - A+
4. Lady and the Tramp - A+
5. The Emperor's New Groove - A
6. Lilo and Stitch - A
7. The Fox and the Hound - A-
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves - A-
9. Hercules - A-
10. The Aristocats - A-
11. The Rescuers - B+
12. The Jungle Book - B+
13. Brother Bear - (it'd be great if it wasn't such a rip-off of everything else Disney's ever done) B-
14. Pinnochio - (hasn't aged very well, and has some quite difficult to watch scenes) - B-

[richterbon23]

im sorry but you are missing some absolute classics in that list like peter pan and sleeping beauty and cinderella

[boyya111]

I always had a soft spot for Pinocchio.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by boyya111

I always had a soft spot for Pinocchio.

For good reason.

As for this thread -- first of all, I despise the term "2-D" animation. It's not "2-D", it's hand-drawn. Before the rise of computer animation, no one referred to hand-drawn films as "2-D", and I refuse to follow suit. "2-d" animation makes hand-drawn animation sound like some outmoded version of windows. I'll never refer to hand-drawn animation as 2-D...though I'm tempted to start referring to CGI films as "point, click and drag" animation.

As to the topic of this thread:

1. Pinocchio
2. Bambi
3. Fantasia
4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
5. Dumbo
6. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
7. Cinderella
8. The Three Caballeros
9. Tron
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit


The Lion King comes in at around #15-#19 on my list. Sorry, in a world that contains such works as Bambi, Fantasia and Pinocchio, not to mention the works of outside studios, the idea that The Lion King is anything other than a derivative remake of Bambi laced with bits of Hamlet and Henry IV, all pumped up with pop songs and sitcom-style dialog -- the idea that the thing is somehow the greatest animated film of all time...well, it's just damned painful to read. It hurts. Its comparable to reading someone claim The New Kids on The Block song "Hangin' Tough" is the greatest song of all time.

The Lion King's not crap -- I'm just not sure its art, although there is art in it. In no way does it even approach the complexities, achievement, and maturity of Bambi, Pinocchio and Fantasia. It has no place on any list of the ten best animated films of all time -- unless the list has a heading of "Best Fart Jokes in an Animated Film" or "Best Pointless Pop-Culture Joke in an Animated Film Before SHREK".

[Mooka-One]

^^^^^ Excellent post Ernest ^^^^^^


my top 5

1. Alice in Wonderland
2. Robin Hood
3. Pinocchio
4. Snow White & The Seven Dwarves
5. Jungle Book


I spent countless saturday afternoons looking after my little cousins watching and rewatching pretty much every disney film ever made!

Alice in Wonderland is just a wonderful piece of art, whether it be the animation or the story itself.
Robin Hood is a very close 2nd, the voice acting is possibly the greatest in animation history, plus its a lot of fun. Oodey Lally!

[Marquoz]

Loved Lilo and Stitch, and the two "Show Me The Money" direct to DVD sequels.

[cajmoyper]

Hercules.

[tjara03]

Aladdin FTW!! My all time fav.. for now at least!

[DutchBoy]

Tough call -- it's hard to qualify any as the best, while there are definitely some I prefer over others and play favorites with.

Went with 'Beauty and the Beast', though.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

For good reason.

As for this thread -- first of all, I despise the term "2-D" animation. It's not "2-D", it's hand-drawn. Before the rise of computer animation, no one referred to hand-drawn films as "2-D", and I refuse to follow suit. "2-d" animation makes hand-drawn animation sound like some outmoded version of windows. I'll never refer to hand-drawn animation as 2-D...though I'm tempted to start referring to CGI films as "point, click and drag" animation.

As to the topic of this thread:

1. Pinocchio
2. Bambi
3. Fantasia
4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
5. Dumbo
6. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
7. Cinderella
8. The Three Caballeros
9. Tron
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit


The Lion King comes in at around #15-#19 on my list. Sorry, in a world that contains such works as Bambi, Fantasia and Pinocchio, not to mention the works of outside studios, the idea that The Lion King is anything other than a derivative remake of Bambi laced with bits of Hamlet and Henry IV, all pumped up with pop songs and sitcom-style dialog -- the idea that the thing is somehow the greatest animated film of all time...well, it's just damned painful to read. It hurts. Its comparable to reading someone claim The New Kids on The Block song "Hangin' Tough" is the greatest song of all time.

The Lion King's not crap -- I'm just not sure its art, although there is art in it. In no way does it even approach the complexities, achievement, and maturity of Bambi, Pinocchio and Fantasia. It has no place on any list of the ten best animated films of all time -- unless the list has a heading of "Best Fart Jokes in an Animated Film" or "Best Pointless Pop-Culture Joke in an Animated Film Before SHREK".

I see that you have difficulty expressing your passion for the Disney Classics.

Get 'em

[catterwall]

Alice in Wonderland and Aladdin yo. best Disney ever

[glenn-bob]

The Fox and the Hound!!!!

[makaveli21]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

For good reason.

As for this thread -- first of all, I despise the term "2-D" animation. It's not "2-D", it's hand-drawn. Before the rise of computer animation, no one referred to hand-drawn films as "2-D", and I refuse to follow suit. "2-d" animation makes hand-drawn animation sound like some outmoded version of windows. I'll never refer to hand-drawn animation as 2-D...though I'm tempted to start referring to CGI films as "point, click and drag" animation.

As to the topic of this thread:

1. Pinocchio
2. Bambi
3. Fantasia
4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves
5. Dumbo
6. The Hunchback of Notre Dame
7. Cinderella
8. The Three Caballeros
9. Tron
10. Who Framed Roger Rabbit


The Lion King comes in at around #15-#19 on my list. Sorry, in a world that contains such works as Bambi, Fantasia and Pinocchio, not to mention the works of outside studios, the idea that The Lion King is anything other than a derivative remake of Bambi laced with bits of Hamlet and Henry IV, all pumped up with pop songs and sitcom-style dialog -- the idea that the thing is somehow the greatest animated film of all time...well, it's just damned painful to read. It hurts. Its comparable to reading someone claim The New Kids on The Block song "Hangin' Tough" is the greatest song of all time.

The Lion King's not crap -- I'm just not sure its art, although there is art in it. In no way does it even approach the complexities, achievement, and maturity of Bambi, Pinocchio and Fantasia. It has no place on any list of the ten best animated films of all time -- unless the list has a heading of "Best Fart Jokes in an Animated Film" or "Best Pointless Pop-Culture Joke in an Animated Film Before SHREK".

I respectfully disagree, and rank it above all the movies you mention.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by makaveli21

I respectfully disagree, and rank it above all the movies you mention.

Why.
If you're basing your evaluation on entertainment value alone, then the thread should be re-titled "most fun Disney animated film". Unfortunately, the thread topic is "Best" disney animated film, and as such, a whole lot more goes into the mix other than how hard we laughed at Timon dressing in drag and singing "Hawaiian War Chant".

Dumb and Dumber has more laughs and is "more fun" than Schindler's List, The Godfather Part II and Raging Bull, but no one in their right mind would ever try and perusade people that Dumb and Dumber was a better film than Schindler's, Bull, or Godfather. There's more to the mix than your guffaw quotient (not to mention, if you watch Bambi and The Lion King back-to-back, you quickly see how derivative and even shallow the latter film is).

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

The Lion King comes in at around #15-#19 on my list. Sorry, in a world that contains such works as Bambi, Fantasia and Pinocchio, not to mention the works of outside studios, the idea that The Lion King is anything other than a derivative remake of Bambi laced with bits of Hamlet and Henry IV

(Okay, we're not going to get into THIS argument again, but let's try another approach...We'll take it nice and slow:
Y'know, that "speed racer car" movie that's in theaters now?--Okay, you DO know that it's based on a cheesy old Japanese series that everyone in the US watched in their jammies during the 60's, right?
Ever see the old show?--Well, I mean, like, rented it, or see the On Demand channels try to flog the old reruns as a tie in?...Okay, how about part of it?...Okay, how about those VW and Geico commercials with the cheesy-looking bad-dub Japanimation-looking characters?--Yeah, yeah, that's the one!

Anyway, point is, that movie tried to be a good version of a cheesy old 60's Japanese title...Well, tried to be anyway--At least it admitted the old show existed and people had heard of it.
Might not know this, but there were actually more than one of those cheesy-looking shows with the silly dubbings...No, there were, not making this up!
There was the racing-car one, everyone knows that one, and a coupla robot ones, and that one with the space teens in the bird suits, but that was much later...Oh, and there was this really cute one, too, about a lion, and his jungle pals, and his really mean uncle, and his dead father showing up in the clouds.

...That one DIDN'T get a good movie version. )

all pumped up with pop songs and sitcom-style dialog -- the idea that the thing is somehow the greatest animated film of all time...well, it's just damned painful to read. It hurts. Its comparable to reading someone claim The New Kids on The Block song "Hangin' Tough" is the greatest song of all time.

The Lion King's not crap -- I'm just not sure its art, although there is art in it. In no way does it even approach the complexities, achievement, and maturity of Bambi, Pinocchio and Fantasia. It has no place on any list of the ten best animated films of all time -- unless the list has a heading of "Best Fart Jokes in an Animated Film" or "Best Pointless Pop-Culture Joke in an Animated Film Before SHREK".

Like the disillusioningly inferior Beauty & the Beast, LK was one of the two examples of post-Mermaid audience mass-hysteria that unfortunately got scribbled down in the record books before the hysteria had worn off, and sane posterity made the naive mistake of believing it:

What is LK's claim to "immortality"?: It made a lot of money when it opened.
That's it--No AFI lists, no Best Picture Oscars (as with B&B's false hysteria), no proclamations of instant classics, etc...A couple of people with the wrong thesauruses confused "Most Popular Film" with "Greatest", and the damage was done ever since:
It merely broke an opening-day box-office record, during the more audience-available summer for the first time, instead of Christmas--and still riding the audience goodwill of Aladdin as its opening act the year before--showed a lot of pretty scenery behind the obnoxiously goofball gags and confused bad-rememberings and American little-movie-glossary steamrollerings of Tezuka...And Katzenberg and Eisner (who were both desperate to establish New Disney's identity in the early 90's with marketable hits of their own, and not have to pay so many royalties to the Old Stuff anymore) were not particular shy in persuading the public that they'd been smart enough to discover One of the Greatest Movies Ever Made, and that Their Boy Katzenberg had thought it up himself...Boy, those audiences know genius when they see it, don't they?

FWIW, heard that Disney animators weren't even enthusiastic about working on it in the first place, and were saving their artistic impulses for the "serious romance" and swirling leaves of that upcoming sure-to-be-immortal Pocahontas project...

[Nerdkiller likes BD]

Why is everyone voting for The Lion King, we all know its a rip off of Kimba The White Lion (I don't watch anime, but I've heard of it).



"You must avenge my death Kimba, dah, I mean Simba".

(I keed, I keed, its all good)

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

Why is everyone voting for The Lion King, we all know its a rip off of Kimba The White Lion (I don't watch anime, but I've heard of it).

And for those who haven't:
http://www.50yearsofkimba.com/historymain.html

(Check out the highly-promoted 1989 TokyoTV revival, btw...Just as a memory jogger, how long does it take Disney to produce an animated movie?)

[Ernest Rister]

Why is everyone voting for The Lion King?

Because Pinocchio, Fantasia, Snow White, Dumbo and Bambi don't have any farting warthogs.

(By the way Eric, I know this is a subject you're passionate about, I just don't subscribe to your interpretation of events and we'll have to leave it at that.)

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by The Lion King

I was bored...

I went with The Lion King. For obvious reasons. The greatest animated movie in history, and tied with Kill Bill and The Shawshank Redemption for being the greatest movie ever.

Rating them on what I think of the ones I've seen:

1. The Lion King - A+++++++++++++++++ (and so on and so forth)
2. The Little Mermaid - A++
3. Aladdin - A+
4. Lady and the Tramp - A+
5. The Emperor's New Groove - A
6. Lilo and Stitch - A
7. The Fox and the Hound - A-
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves - A-
9. Hercules - A-
10. The Aristocats - A-
11. The Rescuers - B+
12. The Jungle Book - B+
13. Brother Bear - (it'd be great if it wasn't such a rip-off of everything else Disney's ever done) B-
14. Pinnochio - (hasn't aged very well, and has some quite difficult to watch scenes) - B-

Weird, I really didn't the Lion King. To me, it was a Bambi rip-off with lions instead of deer.

I remember really liking "Song of the South" when I saw it as a very young child. I think I had a story book adaption of the Br'er Rabbit tale, so it was great to see it come alive.

[The Lion King]

Ernest, you give a great argument, and I'll admit that everything you're saying about Bambi is technically correct. It accomplished so much back in 1941 including the infamous scene where Bambi's mother dies. Even The Lion King's creators acknowledged that it was based on Bambi.

But in my defense, The Lion King was not explicitly based on anything else other than Bambi and Hamlet previously (a lot of people say "Kimba the White Lion", but I beg to differ). It is not a rip-off of Bambi, I think it's an homage to Bambi. The music isn't just merely "pop music", it is in my opinion, the greatest music score ever, and it literally comes to life in the film. The animation is right behind The Prince of Egypt as being the some of the most beautiful animation ever seen in an animated film.

A lot of people assume this about Lion King diehards, but I don't like the movie because of Timon and Pumbaa. I don't really get people who like it just because of them when the film offers so much more. Sure, they're awesome and they add a little bit of comedy to the boil and in themselves aren't bad characters at all, but what makes The Lion King great is that even without comedy, everything else in the film is so flawless and works as well as it can possibly work. It borrows key elements from Bambi and Hamlet, but that's all it borrows. It steals nothing, and instead, spit-polishes it and makes it it's own. This is no longer 1941, it's 2008, and The Lion King was made over 50 years after Bambi. Not that they are in any way lesser in quality, but in this day and age, people just no longer want films like Bambi and Fantasia. They need a little bit more.

The Lion King is a modern masterpiece, and because of the perfect, beautiful animation and art, great characters, the best music score ever, humour, emotion, and respect to both the audience and the films it "rips off", I consider it the greatest animated film of all time. It is so much better than the lifeless dreck we are being force-fed nowadays that it makes me want to cry. The only recent films that even come close to The Lion King, or indeed The Little Mermaid or Aladdin, are Happy Feet, Lilo and Stitch, Toy Story 2 and Finding Nemo.

The Lion King's sequel, Simba's Pride, is an extremely rare example of a direct-to-DVD sequel being almost as good as the original, let alone sequels in general. It did a fantastic job on a presumably lower budget, and I don't really think it could've been improved in any way. It's also has an amazing soundtrack - possibly as good as the original's. I love it.

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Why.
If you're basing your evaluation on entertainment value alone, then the thread should be re-titled "most fun Disney animated film".

Entertainment value, if done exceedingly well, can make a film more than just "fun". Stop judging The Lion King on entertainment value alone because that isn't a legitimate criticism.

Dumb and Dumber has more laughs and is "more fun" than Schindler's List, The Godfather Part II and Raging Bull, but no one in their right mind would ever try and perusade people that Dumb and Dumber was a better film than Schindler's, Bull, or Godfather

Yes, but that's only because they're completely different in every single way and that no one in their right mind would compare Dumb and Dumber to Schindler's List, The Godfather, or Raging Bull if they were trying to make a point. You can't compare a comedy, which is possibly the polar opposite of those 3 drama films, to Shindler's List, Godfather or Raging Bull and expect it to actually prove a point. The Lion King isn't only "more fun" than Bambi, but it has more going on.