What is the benefit of 24fps vs. 60fps? - Blu-ray Forum

sokrman14 · 01-28-2007, 01:06 AM

What is the benefit of 1080/24 over 1080/60? I thought that 60fps was supposed to be better than 24fps, but according to some other threads I am wrong. Also, how do I know which my TV supports? I have the 50" sony sxrd kds50a2000.

HDTV1080P · 01-28-2007, 03:15 AM

Your Sony supports 1080p/60. Your right 1080p/60 would be better if the source material is 1080p/60. Playstation 3 Videogames are 1080p/60. Now if you are interested in watching BLU-RAY or HD-DVD movies for the ideal ultimate setup a player and TV that supports 1080p/24 is ideal. BLU-RAY and HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080P/24. 35mm and 70mm film is 24fps.

lateralus85 · 01-31-2008, 11:00 AM

Just a bump. Yeah old thread but im curious to know why I should force 24fps on my ps3 than leave it off and get the 60fps for movies?

shueardm · 01-31-2008, 11:34 AM

It was just stated that Blu-ray movies are 24fps. That's how the director wanted the movie to been seen- it gives that "film look"

glenn-bob · 01-31-2008, 11:37 AM

OK, now I'm curious about this one. Should I set my PS3 to 24fps for movies? How much difference will this make with my gaming? I don't want to have to set this back and forth whenever I game or watch a movie. Also, where do you set this in the PS3. I've been through most of the settings but don't really remember seeing where I can set the frame rate. It's been a while tho, perhaps I will go back and check tonight.

shueardm · 01-31-2008, 11:41 AM

Only a fraction of HDTV's support 24fps + only a few BD players do as well (I think PS3 does), my set is a Pioneer commercial plasma that does not play 24fps so i dont bother. If one of them doesn't support it then the end experience will be 59.94fps regardless

TheTenth · 02-01-2008, 01:17 PM

heard that there were problems with some movies (Spider man 2) on 24fps

TheRealBob · 02-01-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTenth

heard that there were problems with some movies (Spider man 2) on 24fps

Where did you hear that? What kind of problems? It looked great on my TV.

Movies have, for a long, long time, been shot on film, with 24 frames of film shot each second. To play them back at the right speed, the projector shows it back at the same rate, 24 frames a second.

Since that is the standard for movies, it is ideal to have a TV that can show 24 frames per second or a multiple of 24 frames a second. For example, on a TV that can show 120 frames per second, you could show each frame 5 times, so the timing will be perfect (24 x 5 = 120) and each frame will be shown the right amount of time. If you try to show 24 frames a second on a system that's hardcoded for, say, 60 frames a second, you have to show half of the original frames 3 times and half 2 times, since 60 / 24 = 2.5. That causes the timing not to be right, and you can perceive a lack of smoothness in movement because of that.

If your TV can handle 24 FPS, then you should definitely use that.

jd213 · 02-01-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTenth

heard that there were problems with some movies (Spider man 2) on 24fps

Didn't have problems with Spiderman 2 or any of my BDs running at 1080p24 from the PS3 to a Sony VP-VW60 projector.

UTVOL06 · 02-01-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shueardm

Only a fraction of HDTV's support 24fps + only a few BD players do as well (I think PS3 does), my set is a Pioneer commercial plasma that does not play 24fps so i dont bother. If one of them doesn't support it then the end experience will be 59.94fps regardless

Yeah, currently on the Sony Bravia XBR4&5 LCDs support true 24p playback, Some of the Pioneer Elite plasmas support it as well.

Not only do you need a LCD, Plasma, or even projector that "truly" supports it you also need a player that does as well.

Believe me I had to do some research myself to upgrade to the proper tv and player to get true 24p playback.

UTVOL06 · 02-01-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Your Sony supports 1080p/60. Your right 1080p/60 would be better if the source material is 1080p/60. Playstation 3 Videogames are 1080p/60. Now if you are interested in watching BLU-RAY or HD-DVD movies for the ideal ultimate setup a player and TV that supports 1080p/24 is ideal. BLU-RAY and HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080P/24. 35mm and 70mm film is 24fps.

I agree. If you watch a blu-ray on a tv that only supports 60fps then you will get what many call "judder" in a lot of fast motion or panning shots in the movie. It looks a little slideshow-ish. Having a 24p display smooths out motion by a good margin making things look much better. Keep in mind though all things shot in 24FPS film, etc. will have some choppyness in fast action as there aren't enough Frames per second to keep up with the fast motion.

PaulGo · 02-01-2008, 02:52 PM

Actually 24fps is shown in the movies as 48fps since each frame is shown twice. If it was shown at 24fps the eye would see flicker.

"Existing films for general release in such countries as the United States are photographed and conventionally shown at 24, frames per second. Conventional exhibition of such motion picture films by projecting them at 24 frames per second through a double-bladed shutter delivers 48 image impressions (48 flashes of light) to the viewers per second."

UTVOL06 · 02-01-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Actually 24fps is shown in the movies as 48fps since each frame is shown twice. If it was shown at 24fps the eye would see flicker.

cool didn't know that. so theater projectors do a 2:2 pulldown while 120HZ LCDs like the Sony bravia XBR 4/5 do a 5:5 pull down?

Bobby Henderson · 02-01-2008, 04:29 PM

Yeah, the 24fps cinema mode is like a direct 5:5 pulldown. The 24fps cinema mode is different from the Motion Flow mode which interpolates in between frames. That effect is good for video-based content, particularly sports. I think the Motion Flow mode makes movies look very strange and video-ish -sort of like a movie being jogged in fast forward mode even though it is playing in normal speed.

shug7272 · 02-02-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Your Sony supports 1080p/60. Your right 1080p/60 would be better if the source material is 1080p/60. Playstation 3 Videogames are 1080p/60. Now if you are interested in watching BLU-RAY or HD-DVD movies for the ideal ultimate setup a player and TV that supports 1080p/24 is ideal. BLU-RAY and HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080P/24. 35mm and 70mm film is 24fps.

Thanks for that, I learned something today.

lateralus85 · 02-02-2008, 06:25 AM

What does that mean though. Playing a movie at 24fps isnt what how it should be as they are actually shot at 24fpsx2.

Very confusing topic.

newt07 · 02-02-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Yeah, the 24fps cinema mode is like a direct 5:5 pulldown. The 24fps cinema mode is different from the Motion Flow mode which interpolates in between frames. That effect is good for video-based content, particularly sports. I think the Motion Flow mode makes movies look very strange and video-ish -sort of like a movie being jogged in fast forward mode even though it is playing in normal speed.

I don't understand. I thought refresh rate meant nothing in the computer world. What I mean is that LCD displays are 60 Hz, right? But 60 Hz doesn't actually tell you have fast a pixel can change. Response time is suppose to be what we're looking at. So a 60 Hz display at 24 fps by just changing the pixel 24 times a second. It's not like the LCD runs on alternating current. It runs on direct current.

I guess what I said is wrong. So does this mean that LCD monitors, for computers that is, also have the same problem where 24 or 25 fps in a game would produce some judder?

timer00 · 02-02-2008, 01:32 PM

Actually my just purchased Sony KDL-40V3000 up to the XBR5 support 1080/24.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...categoryId=563

Just look at the short specs on V3000, W3000 and XBR's.

The PS3 at least has a "Automatic" mode for displaying 1080/24 which can be set under "BD/DVD Settings" on the PS3. Just look for the 1080/24 option. That way it'll display 24 for blu-rays and then 60 or whatever else for everything else.

Last night I watched "The Invasion" (a entertaining movie at least) with decent picture quality in 1080/24 and it looked very good at 24fps. It was different from the normal Blu-Ray experience at 1080i/60 on my old Panasonic 30" wide-screen TAU.

Knight-Errant · 02-02-2008, 04:23 PM

Yeah 24p definitely has a different quality to it. I think it's a more natural motion judging from what I've seen.

Mermen79 · 02-02-2008, 05:16 PM

I wish my television supported 24HZ or 120hz. It is a 60hz Samsung. I do experience a lot of judder in any panning scene (even slow panning).

01-28-2007, 01:06 AM	#1
sokrman14 Special Member Member since:Mar 2006 Location:Omaha, NE Home Theater Gallery:9 Blu-ray collection:32 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	What is the benefit of 24fps vs. 60fps? What is the benefit of 1080/24 over 1080/60? I thought that 60fps was supposed to be better than 24fps, but according to some other threads I am wrong. Also, how do I know which my TV supports? I have the 50" sony sxrd kds50a2000.

02-01-2008, 02:52 PM	#12
PaulGo Power Member Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 Location:North Potomac, MD	Actually 24fps is shown in the movies as 48fps since each frame is shown twice. If it was shown at 24fps the eye would see flicker. "Existing films for general release in such countries as the United States are photographed and conventionally shown at 24, frames per second. Conventional exhibition of such motion picture films by projecting them at 24 frames per second through a double-bladed shutter delivers 48 image impressions (48 flashes of light) to the viewers per second." Last edited by PaulGo; 02-01-2008 at 04:08 PM.

02-02-2008, 01:32 PM	#18
timer00 Member Member since:Nov 2007 Location:Eastern PA Blu-ray reviews:2	Actually my just purchased Sony KDL-40V3000 up to the XBR5 support 1080/24. http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...categoryId=563 Just look at the short specs on V3000, W3000 and XBR's. The PS3 at least has a "Automatic" mode for displaying 1080/24 which can be set under "BD/DVD Settings" on the PS3. Just look for the 1080/24 option. That way it'll display 24 for blu-rays and then 60 or whatever else for everything else. Last night I watched "The Invasion" (a entertaining movie at least) with decent picture quality in 1080/24 and it looked very good at 24fps. It was different from the normal Blu-Ray experience at 1080i/60 on my old Panasonic 30" wide-screen TAU. Last edited by timer00; 02-02-2008 at 01:36 PM.

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01-28-2007, 03:15 AM	#2
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	Your Sony supports 1080p/60. Your right 1080p/60 would be better if the source material is 1080p/60. Playstation 3 Videogames are 1080p/60. Now if you are interested in watching BLU-RAY or HD-DVD movies for the ideal ultimate setup a player and TV that supports 1080p/24 is ideal. BLU-RAY and HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080P/24. 35mm and 70mm film is 24fps.

01-31-2008, 11:00 AM	#3
lateralus85 Active Member Member since:Nov 2007	Just a bump. Yeah old thread but im curious to know why I should force 24fps on my ps3 than leave it off and get the 60fps for movies?

01-31-2008, 11:34 AM	#4
shueardm Active Member Top contributor Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Australia 4K collection:507 Blu-ray collection:981 MA collection:4 Digital collection:9 iTunes collection:868 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:6	It was just stated that Blu-ray movies are 24fps. That's how the director wanted the movie to been seen- it gives that "film look"

01-31-2008, 11:37 AM	#5
glenn-bob Power Member Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Dartmouth, NS, Canada Blu-ray collection:165	OK, now I'm curious about this one. Should I set my PS3 to 24fps for movies? How much difference will this make with my gaming? I don't want to have to set this back and forth whenever I game or watch a movie. Also, where do you set this in the PS3. I've been through most of the settings but don't really remember seeing where I can set the frame rate. It's been a while tho, perhaps I will go back and check tonight.

01-31-2008, 11:41 AM	#6
shueardm Active Member Top contributor Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Australia 4K collection:507 Blu-ray collection:981 MA collection:4 Digital collection:9 iTunes collection:868 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:6	Only a fraction of HDTV's support 24fps + only a few BD players do as well (I think PS3 does), my set is a Pioneer commercial plasma that does not play 24fps so i dont bother. If one of them doesn't support it then the end experience will be 59.94fps regardless

02-01-2008, 01:17 PM	#7
TheTenth Special Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Clermont-Ferrand, France Home Theater Gallery:9 4K collection:98 Blu-ray collection:681 DVD collection:1 Blu-ray reviews:11	heard that there were problems with some movies (Spider man 2) on 24fps

02-01-2008, 04:29 PM	#14
Bobby Henderson Power Member Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Oklahoma Blu-ray collection:96 Blu-ray reviews: 12	Yeah, the 24fps cinema mode is like a direct 5:5 pulldown. The 24fps cinema mode is different from the Motion Flow mode which interpolates in between frames. That effect is good for video-based content, particularly sports. I think the Motion Flow mode makes movies look very strange and video-ish -sort of like a movie being jogged in fast forward mode even though it is playing in normal speed.

02-02-2008, 06:25 AM	#16
lateralus85 Active Member Member since:Nov 2007	What does that mean though. Playing a movie at 24fps isnt what how it should be as they are actually shot at 24fpsx2. Very confusing topic.

02-02-2008, 04:23 PM	#19
Knight-Errant Power Member Member since:Aug 2005 Location:Sheffield, UK	Yeah 24p definitely has a different quality to it. I think it's a more natural motion judging from what I've seen.

02-02-2008, 05:16 PM	#20
Mermen79 Senior Member Member since:Nov 2007 Trading Score:3	I wish my television supported 24HZ or 120hz. It is a 60hz Samsung. I do experience a lot of judder in any panning scene (even slow panning).

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