Turntable Recommendations for under $500

[joe1515]

I am looking for a decent turntable. I have a Denon receiver mode number AVR-3808CI. Any recommendations would be appreciated!!!!

[un4gvn94538]

project debut III (non usb) had got some great reviews as an entery level audiophile turntable

[richteer]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I am looking for a decent turntable. I have a Denon receiver mode number AVR-3808CI. Any recommendations would be appreciated!!!!

The non-USB Pro-Ject Debut III is worth a look, as is the entry level Rega 25. The Rega comes with the RB301 tonearm, which (if it's anything like its predecessor, the RB300) is a great arm for the price.

Don't forget to get a decent cartridge. At the price you're considering, you should budget about $300 to $400 for the 'table & arm, and $100 to $200 for a cartridge. You're after a moving magnet (MM) type, or high output moving coil (MC). MCs tend to be better, but in your budget I think the choice is quite limited so MM is probably the way to go.

Cartridge brands I'd recommend include Audio Technica, Sumiko, and Ortophon, but there are other good ones out there.

Fair warning: if a you have a sizeable record collection, you might find your desire to spend lots of money on a vinyl front end increasing. This is perfectly normal, but there's no cure. :-)

Edit: Another brand that slipped my mind is Music Hall.

[btf1980]

I would also recommend the Project Debut III. It really is a solid all around entry level performer at an exceptional price. It comes with an Ortofon OM-5E cartridge already mounted, so set-up should be a breeze for anyone. If you get the debut III, I recommend you get a Pro-ject speedbox so you won't have to remove the platter to change the speed of the record.

I have to say I love this TT (debut III) quite a bit. I've had many other tables, at all pricepoints and sure many were better, but they were also anywhere from 3 to 10 times the price. Certainly not 10 times the performance. I think the debut is quite a steal. I actually was away from vinyl for a few years. My last turntable was a Basis Audio 1400 signature edition. Got back into it with a Debut III, and i'm quite happy with it. I got the red one...looks delicious.

[airkitty]

You should consider the Thorens brand as well as the ones listed above. I have enjoyed their model TD-280 for nearly twenty years with no problems (other than the cat eating the power wire). The table sounds wonderful and seems bullet proof. The Sumiko cartridges are wonderful. Good luck with your shopping and let us know what you end up buying.
Mark

[joe1515]

Ok so I have been doing a lot of research and I have the vinyl bug. I narrowed down my choices (I think) to Pro-Ject or Rega.

Am I better off purchasing the Pro-Ject Debut III with the speedbox and upgrading the cartridge to a sumiko pearl for around $600 or looking for a better table without the accessiories? I was also looking at the pro-ject expression III it retails for $699.

Thanks for all your help so far!!!

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by joe1515

Ok so I have been doing a lot of research and I have the vinyl bug. I narrowed down my choices (I think) to Pro-Ject or Rega.

Am I better off purchasing the Pro-Ject Debut III with the speedbox and upgrading the cartridge to a sumiko pearl for around $600 or looking for a better table without the accessiories? I was also looking at the pro-ject expression III it retails for $699.

Thanks for all your help so far!!!

If you're willing to spend $700 for a TT plus the additional costs of a speedbox, perhaps you should look into getting the Pro-ject RM6.1. It's $999, but it comes with a speedbox, so you are only spending about $140 more than you intended to spend.

If you do get the Debut III, then I don't see the point in switching out the Ortofon cartridge for the Pearl, not worth it. I would personally get the Sumiko Blue Point No 2. It's the sweet spot in terms of price to performance ratio.

[Lucy Diamond]

www.needledoctor.com bebe!!!

[Big Daddy]

TECHNICS SL-1200MK2. Price: $419.63

Denon DP-300F. Price: $329.00

Audio-Technica AT-PL120. Price: $157.99

Cartridges. Price: $30 to a few hundred.

Technics (a division of Panasonic) turntables were considered to be the best in the 1970's and 1980's. Many clubs and DJ's continue to use them.

[BinaryLinguist]

I have a Rega P3 with a Denon DL160 cartridge. Love it. That combo will run you around $1000.

[joe1515]

I stopped in to my local high end audio store and they recommended the Thorens TD-190 for $495. It seems like a decent deal.

Should I go with the Thorens TD-190 or the Project-Debut III with a speed box?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I stopped in to my local high end audio store and they recommended the Thorens TD-190 for $495. It seems like a decent deal.

Should I go with the Thorens TD-190 or the Project-Debut III with a speed box?

Read this Thorens TD-190 review on Yahoo shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:THORENS%...DxT5eK5.3hDuEE

Personally, I would prefer the Technics SL-1200MK2.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Read this Thorens TD-190 review on Yahoo shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:THORENS%...DxT5eK5.3hDuEE

Personally, I would prefer the Technics SL-1200MK2.

With the utmost respect, the Technics isn't in the same league as the Pro-Ject. It's a great DJ turntable, no doubt (after all, that is what it was designed for!), but suitable for an audiophile it ain't. To put it another way, I wouldn't use a Pro-ject for DJing for exactly the same reasons why I wouldn't use a Technics for serious music listening.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I stopped in to my local high end audio store and they recommended the Thorens TD-190 for $495. It seems like a decent deal.

Should I go with the Thorens TD-190 or the Project-Debut III with a speed box?

My dad has a Thorens and they're OK. But I don't think they're as competetive as they once were. The Pro-Ject III with speed box is likely to give you better results. (I forget what are the Pro-ject comes with; an arm upgrade in the future might be worth considering...)

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Technics (a division of Panasonic) turntables were considered to be the best in the 1970's and 1980's. Many clubs and DJ's continue to use them.

The Technics turntables were indeed considered amongst the best for DJing, but never for serious music listening. I'd never recommend a Technics turntable to someone who was interested in listening to music (as opposed to DJing).

[joe1515]

I think I have decided to go with the Pro-Ject Xpressions III and purchase the speedbox in a few months. I found a decent a price of $625.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by richteer

With the utmost respect, the Technics isn't in the same league as the Pro-Ject. It's a great DJ turntable, no doubt (after all, that is what it was designed for!), but suitable for an audiophile it ain't. To put it another way, I wouldn't use a Pro-ject for DJing for exactly the same reasons why I wouldn't use a Technics for serious music listening.

Your statement is not accurate. The reasons DJ’s use the Technics SL-1200 is because it is built like a tank and it can take a lot of abuse. I own a vintage Marantz turntable with Shure V15 Type III cartridge. If I had to replace my Marantz, I would purchase the Technics without a moment’s hesitation. Read the following articles.

P.S. I forgive you because you are from beautiful Kelowna, B.C. A few years ago, I lived there and taught at the Okanagan College. We used to go to that resort in Penticton for Sunday brunches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200
“The Technics SL-1200 is a series of turntables manufactured since October 1972 by Matsushita under the brand name of Technics. Originally released as a high fidelity consumer record player, it quickly became adopted among radio and club disc jockeys. Since its release in 1978, SL-1200MK2 and its successors have been the most common turntable for DJing and scratching. The MK2 presented several improvements, including to the motor and casing. Since 1972, more than 3 million units have been sold. It is widely regarded as one of the most durable and reliable turntables ever produced. Many of the models manufactured in the '70s are still in heavy use.”

I have included a summary of the Audiogon review in the following. You can read the complete review here.

“Why would a lowly DJ deck be evaluated alongside “serious” analog gear? Or, number two: Is the recent positive buzz on Audiogon and the web about this venerable disk spinner merited?

The first question is easiest to answer. That’s because the Technics SL-1200Mk2 wasn’t originally intended as a DJ machine. It was unveiled in 1972, years before the arrival of hip-hop and disco.

The second question – whether the SL-1200Mk2 deserves to stand alongside the likes of Rega, Pro-Ject, Music Hall and other ‘audiophile’ designs – is a bit trickier. But I’ll do my best.

QUALITY

The Technics SL-1200Mk2 is built like a bank vault, weighing in at over 26 pounds. Heavy gear isn’t necessarily better sounding, and lightweight gear isn’t necessarily garbage. One thing’s for sure: the SL-1200Mk2 is the only $550 turntable on the market today that stands a chance of being handed down to my grandchildren. Mine may even outlast the format entirely. This is an heirloom product, the only one in its class as far as I’m concerned. Parts are widely available and affordable, so the SL-1200Mk2 could well be a lifetime investment.

The Music Hall MMF-2.1 (which I owned) and the MMF-5 (which I auditioned) can’t hold a candle to the SL-1200Mk2 in terms of quality. Neither can the lower-end Thorens turntables: the TD170, TD 185 (which I also owned) and TD190. My beloved Rega P2 is a higher-quality unit than any of the Music Hall or Thorens models, but next to the Technics, it feels like origami. Plus, the P2 arrived with a few minor quality control gaffes (broken dustcover hinges, etc.) that I had to correct or replace. The Technics, which is mostly hand built in Japan to this day, was 100% perfect out of the box save for a tiny scuff near the pitch slider. Impressive.

OPERATION

Here’s where the Technics stands head-and-shoulders above, well, everything else. Virtually every control has a positive, very expensive feel (except the pitch slider, which feels a little ‘scratchy’ as it moves). Tap the ‘start’ button and in 0.7 seconds, the platter is up to speed. Tap it again and it stops just as quickly. Adjustable electronic braking can bring the platter to an even quicker halt if for some reason one second isn’t fast enough.

The platter weighs five pounds and is damped with hard rubber on the bottom. Whack it with a baseball bat and it still won’t ring. (The rubber record mat adds another 17 ounces.) Give the platter a spin with your hand, and it whirls like a greased roulette wheel. I wondered if it would ever stop spinning! It has great flywheel action, and judging by the smoothness of rotation, the bearing must be pretty well machined.

Being able to switch from 33 to 45 at the touch of a button is a joy. I sold most of my 45rpm LPs because it just didn’t seem worth the bother to play them with my previous turntables. Now, no more lifting the platter to change speeds. (Also, if you use a dry brush, you can really speed up your pre-play record dusting by simply tapping the 45 button!)

Finally, my favorite feature: the pop-up cueing lamp. At the touch of a button, a tiny bulb sheathed in swanky brushed aluminum glides skyward to light the way. If you like to listen to LPs late at night with the lights dimmed and don’t feel like clamping a reading lamp to your equipment rack, you’ll surely love this bonus extra.

TONEARM

If the SL-1200Mk2 has a weak point, at first glance this would seem to be it. The Rega RB250 feels like a surgical instrument; in contrast, the Technics tonearm feels precise but a bit less elegant. I’d say that, in use, it’s on par with the mid-end Pro-Ject arms, though it looks and feels more expensive. It’s not, though: a replacement tonearm assembly for the Technics costs about $70 sans cable – a fraction of the Rega RB250’s price.

Of course, the Technics arm offers flexibility the RB250 can’t match.

LISTENING…TO OTHER TECHNICS OWNERS

I also know that many audiophiles are enthusiastic about this table. Europeans seem particularly keen on it, even though it costs significantly more overseas ($650-$700 is the prevailing discount price range for the U.K.). So I contacted every owner I could locate for advice. What I learned is that some people use the SL-1200Mk2 as their only table and are perfectly content; others have multiple tables (one fellow has the classic Thorens TD125 with an SME arm; another has a Pro-Ject RM9). In every case, they described the SL-1200Mk2 as a musical, un-fussy and high-quality analog playback device. Most swore they’d never part with it, regardless of how sophisticated their main ‘audiophile’ rigs become.

Then there’s resale. A 20-year old SL-1200Mk2 sells for around $300. But a two-year-old SL-1200Mk2 sells for…well, around $300. Why? Because apparently you can’t kill these things.

LISTENING…TO THE SL-1200Mk2

I hate to keep comparing the SL-1200Mk2 to the Rega P2. Ideally, live music should be my reference. But most people know what a British belt drive ‘table sounds like, though very few are likely familiar with the 1200. Besides, if you’re comparison shopping in the $500 range, the P2 is probably high on your list. So with that in mind, here we go.

Pleasant surprise #1: the SL-1200Mk2 has tremendous attack and crackerjack (though not perfect) timing. In fact, it handles dynamic contrasts with greater aplomb than the Rega or, for that matter, any ‘table I’ve ever owned including my departed Linn Axis. No wonder this deck sounds so good in clubs – if it could, it would grab you by the scruff of your neck and toss you onto the dance floor. Turns out the British aren’t the only purveyors of PRAT.

Pleasant surprise #2: the Technics SL-1200Mk2 has the quietest backgrounds I’ve ever heard on any table under $1000. I was shocked by the utter silence between notes. (Don’t sell your Lingo’d LP12…I’m talking relative quiet here.) There’s a tradeoff, though, and it’s this: typical of direct drive turntables, the SL-1200Mk2 isn’t great at minimizing the intrusiveness of imperfections. Tics, pops and scratches are definitely in the foreground at all times, a tendency exacerbated by the Shure cartridge. It’s a compromise I can easily live with. (A good low-output MC might help matters, provided you think the Technics arm is up to the job.)

Pleasant surprise #3: the Technics tonearm is far better than you’d suppose. It coaxes out a satisfying amount of detail, though the Rega RB250 ultimately squeezed more performance from the Shure cartridge. Nothing is missing, though hard-to-resolve passages can sometimes get muddy, and delicate instruments (tinkling chimes, high hats, gently shaken maracas, top-octave woodwind notes) are often relegated to the far end of the mix. However, the Technics exhibits much greater soundstage depth than my Rega P2. Another fair tradeoff.

Pleasant surprise #4: stable pitch makes a dramatic difference. Fellow audiophiles and dealers often downplay the importance of spot-on speed control in budget decks. And it’s true, there’s a lot more to vinyl playback than this. But once you hear proper decay, you wonder how you ever lived without Quartz lock. Plus, the Technics’ tenacious motor refuses to be slowed by needle drag or for that matter, decelerated by a Decca brush pressed firmly to a dusty LP. All the while, the speed remains spot-on.

CONCLUSION

In terms of quality, you can’t buy a better-built turntable than the SL-1200Mk2 anywhere near its $550 retail price (let alone the $500 street price). Yes, the tonearm leaves a bit to be desired, and the cabling really sucks rocks. But the 1200’s speed stability, quiet backgrounds and ease of operation more than make up for its shortcomings. Plus, this turntable is a blast to use – the most rewarding I’ve ever experienced in terms of silky-smooth operation. If Acura made a record player, this might be it.

I still love the Rega P2…but I also love the Technics SL-1200Mk2.”

Read about 60 or more user reviews.
http://wize.com/turntables/p28609-te...0mk2-turntable

[Sith]

I'm so surprised no one said something stupid like "What's a turntable"

Nice to see records making a comeback...The packaging for records is unsurpassed, only problem i have is there portability....

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Your statement is not accurate. The reasons DJ’s use the Technics SL-1200 is because it is built like a tank and it can take a lot of abuse. I own a vintage Marantz turntable with Shure V15 Type III cartridge. If I had to replace my Marantz, I would purchase the Technics without a moment’s hesitation. Read the following articles.

I used to work in a hifi store, where I had access to numerous turntables. Trust me, the Technics was not in the same class as most of the others (it was better than certain low end Dual models).

Yes, the Technics is duarable and built like a tank, but that doesn't mean it sounds any good. For what it was designed for (pro DJing), it's probably the best alternative. However, for audiophile uses, one can do much better.

P.S. I forgive you because you are from beautiful Kelowna, B.C. A few years ago, I lived there and taught at the Okanagan College. We used to go to that resort in Penticton for Sunday brunches.

Why, thank you! Yes, Kelowna is beautiful. We went through Penticton just last weekend, on our way to Osoyoos.