Speakers near walls

[richteer]

Over in the "Pictures of home theatres" thread, there are lots of pics of some great setups, but one question keeps popping into my head over and over: why do so many people put their front speakers so close to the walls (especially the real wall), even if they have towers (which presumably have reasonable bass that doesn't need wall reinforcement)?

Most speakers are designed to work away from walls, so if you want the best sound from your speaker investment, move them into the room by at least 2 or 3 feet. The sound'll clean up nicely, and you'll hear a closer approximation to what's on the sound track.

[KingRadicalPhil]

shake things up by using the wall as booster on the bass

[RUR]

Originally Posted by richteer

Over in the "Pictures of home theatres" thread, there are lots of pics of some great setups, but one question keeps popping into my head over and over: why do so many people put their front speakers so close to the walls (especially the real wall), even if they have towers (which presumably have reasonable bass that doesn't need wall reinforcement)?

Most speakers are designed to work away from walls, so if you want the best sound from your speaker investment, move them into the room by at least 2 or 3 feet. The sound'll clean up nicely, and you'll hear a closer approximation to what's on the sound track.

It's a good question. Probably for the some of the same reasons folks make no attempt to properly treat their listening rooms: lack of understanding of basic principles and/or aesthetics and/or available space. Close proximity to the front/side walls is particularly problematic with dipoles and rear-ported designs, of which there are many.

People who are genuinely interested in the very best AQ their systems can provide should take some time to read about and understand the HUGE impact speaker placement and room treatments (even simple ones) can provide. Far more important, IMHO, than which AVR/pre-pro/amp/audio codec etc.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by richteer

Over in the "Pictures of home theatres" thread, there are lots of pics of some great setups, but one question keeps popping into my head over and over: why do so many people put their front speakers so close to the walls (especially the real wall), even if they have towers (which presumably have reasonable bass that doesn't need wall reinforcement)?

Most speakers are designed to work away from walls, so if you want the best sound from your speaker investment, move them into the room by at least 2 or 3 feet. The sound'll clean up nicely, and you'll hear a closer approximation to what's on the sound track.

I agree! Whenever I visit someone's home theatre, there is a 98% chance that I will take some time a move their speakers away from the wall and have them hear the difference. And 80% of that 98% will notice how much more accurately positioned the 3-dimensional sound field is.

Placing speakers against a wall running perpendicular to your screen will only cause sound refraction that will throw Front Left too much towards Rear Right and Front Right towards Rear Left... thus causing a very blanketed sound experience instead of the precise directional output that is supposed to occur. It's simple physics.

[IG.88]

Wait, a question then. With this in mind, where should you place a rearported speaker? Parallel to the wall instead of perpendicular? Or farther forward?

[mattym]

i always tell people to move speakers before i do any acoustic testing or make any recommendations. A few inches can make a huge difference.

Rearported speaker positioning should be around 5 - 6" away from the wall, the port needs room to breathe...

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Placing speakers against a wall running perpendicular to your screen will only cause sound refraction that will throw Front Left too much towards Rear Right and Front Right towards Rear Left... thus causing a very blanketed sound experience instead of the precise directional output that is supposed to occur. It's simple physics.

I think it also explains why so many people don't hear the imporvements that (e.g.) better (speaker) cables can bring: the colourations induced by having their speakers so close to the walls wipes out all the relatively subtle improvements the better cables etc. bring to the table.

[Lapse of Reason]

I'm sure many people have to balance room aesthetics with proper speaker placement. To be honest, most living rooms won't look too good with speakers sticking out a few feet from the walls.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by richteer

I think it also explains why so many people don't hear the imporvements that (e.g.) better (speaker) cables can bring: the colourations induced by having their speakers so close to the walls wipes out all the relatively subtle improvements the better cables etc. bring to the table.

Cables shmables! As stated a thousand times over, a cable is a cable. A cheap $0.80/ft cable and $1.40/ft Monster cable do the exact same damn thing. Retailers buy Monster cables for a little more than the cheaper cables and re-sell them for more with commission going back to Monster from the sale. That's why they push Monster cabling so much at retail stores. Their profit margin is 300% (neither exact nor factional... just picked a number to make a point).

Don't let yourselves be fooled by the marketing machine!!!

[darkblueme]

Originally Posted by mattym

Rearported speaker positioning should be around 5 - 6" away from the wall, the port needs room to breathe...

Why do my bi/dipoles have wall mounts then?

I agree with with everyone placing the front tower speakers away from the walls, but what about the smaller surround speakers?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by darkblueme

Why do my bi/dipoles have wall mounts then?

I agree with with everyone placing the front tower speakers away from the walls, but what about the smaller surround speakers?

I say it applies both ways... fronts and rears. However, that all depends on how you balance the output from the rears. Most people like the rears to be quieter than the fronts for a subtle surround effect. I like it to be perfectly balanced so that the rear sound really comes to life and fills my space completely. As for positioning, the rear speakers often have to have a slight angle away from any wall anyhow, so it isn't quite as important. Regardless, people just need to try and visualize the sound as waves. "How will this speaker output sound? Where will the sound bounce? After the bounce, where will the sound travel?"

Think of it like a pool table shot. If you shoot the cue ball without any other balls on the table, where will it hit the rail and how will that affect the trajectory? Now pretend that your speaker is the cue and the sound being output from it is the cue ball!

[musicman1999]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Cables shmables! As stated a thousand times over, a cable is a cable. A cheap $0.80/ft cable and $1.40/ft Monster cable do the exact same damn thing. Retailers buy Monster cables for a little more than the cheaper cables and re-sell them for more with commission going back to Monster from the sale. That's why they push Monster cabling so much at retail stores. Their profit margin is 300% (neither exact nor factional... just picked a number to make a point).

Don't let yourselves be fooled by the marketing machine!!!

That is not true, good cable and wires do make a difference, but only in a good quality system that has been properly set up. I do agree that $1.40 a foot Monster speaker wire is junk, but get a good brand wire and there are differences. Across my front 3 speakers i use Kimber wire that was about $10.00 per foot but was clearly better than the $3.00 per foot Ixos i was using, more bass definition,better detail and a fuller midrange. Saying that cables are cables is like saying cars are cars because they can all pick up the groceries.

bill

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Cables shmables! As stated a thousand times over, a cable is a cable. A cheap $0.80/ft cable and $1.40/ft Monster cable do the exact same damn thing. Retailers buy Monster cables for a little more than the cheaper cables and re-sell them for more with commission going back to Monster from the sale. That's why they push Monster cabling so much at retail stores. Their profit margin is 300% (neither exact nor factional... just picked a number to make a point).

Don't let yourselves be fooled by the marketing machine!!!

Analog cables, aka speaker wire, does matter. Obviously digital cables don't matter b/c it's either on or off, but to say cables don't matter for speakers is just silly.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Intamin

Analog cables, aka speaker wire, does matter. Obviously digital cables don't matter b/c it's either on or off, but to say cables don't matter for speakers is just silly.

I don't know... I've heard several very similar setups to mine where people have used some fancy super shielded $8/ft speaker wire. With the same uncompressed audio material on both setups, mine ($0.80/ft cabling) sounded practically identical... and they had dedicated rooms created from scratch! I'm in a living room with lots of open space on either side of my viewing space. Bottm line... nowhere near enough difference to my ears to justify the extra $720 (100ft x $7.20/ft).

[musicman1999]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

I don't know... I've heard several very similar setups to mine where people have used some fancy super shielded $8/ft speaker wire. With the same uncompressed audio material on both setups, mine ($0.80/ft cabling) sounded practically identical... and they had dedicated rooms created from scratch! I'm in a living room with lots of open space on either side of my viewing space. Bottm line... nowhere near enough difference to my ears to justify the extra $720 (100ft x $7.20/ft).

When you upgrade your speakers the difference will be more apparent. The wire has to fit the speakers, if you have $1,000 worth of speakers it would be a waste to spend $500 on speaker wire, over the years i have found that the value of your wire should be about 15% of the value of your speakers and thats close to where i am.

bill

[Kratos3]

Originally Posted by musicman1999

That is not true, good cable and wires do make a difference, but only in a good quality system that has been properly set up. I do agree that $1.40 a foot Monster speaker wire is junk, but get a good brand wire and there are differences. Across my front 3 speakers i use Kimber wire that was about $10.00 per foot but was clearly better than the $3.00 per foot Ixos i was using, more bass definition,better detail and a fuller midrange. Saying that cables are cables is like saying cars are cars because they can all pick up the groceries.

bill

I couldn't have said it better myself. Sure, the difference may not be life-altering and simply stunning, but there is a difference. The better your speakers and surrounding components, the more a quality cable will make a difference.

[Intamin]

Originally Posted by Kratos3

I couldn't have said it better myself. Sure, the difference may not be life-altering and simply stunning, but there is a difference. The better your speakers and surrounding components, the more a quality cable will make a difference.

QFT

[prerich]

Originally Posted by richteer

Over in the "Pictures of home theatres" thread, there are lots of pics of some great setups, but one question keeps popping into my head over and over: why do so many people put their front speakers so close to the walls (especially the real wall), even if they have towers (which presumably have reasonable bass that doesn't need wall reinforcement)?

Most speakers are designed to work away from walls, so if you want the best sound from your speaker investment, move them into the room by at least 2 or 3 feet. The sound'll clean up nicely, and you'll hear a closer approximation to what's on the sound track.

Same thing here, my speakers are out 3.5 feet from the wall and out into the listening room. I also use speaker toe-in (very few people here do that....hmmmm?) But I agree entirely with your statement

[RUR]

Originally Posted by prerich

Same thing here, my speakers are out 3.5 feet from the wall and out into the listening room. I also use speaker toe-in (very few people here do that....hmmmm?) But I agree entirely with your statement

Heh, sometime I'll tell you about the ML toe-in technique, involving a dark room and a flashlight on your head. Works with Logans 'cuz of the reflective panels.

After walking them around the room inch by inch and listening at each position, my speakers landed 4ft from the front wall and ~3 from either side wall.

[mattym]

Originally Posted by darkblueme

Why do my bi/dipoles have wall mounts then?

I agree with with everyone placing the front tower speakers away from the walls, but what about the smaller surround speakers?

surround speakers or side speakers tend to be wall mounted

Mostly just fronts are rear ported, as Petra says most surround units are mounted angled, normally higher than head height (i still havent seen a pro install where they are mounted at ear level, only all in one solutions or designer stuff have stands for the rears at head height...)