605 - MultiCh vs Direct

[Croweyes1121]

After reading through all of the discussions on this topic in the forums recently, I opted to go with MultiCh on my new Onkyo 605. The consensus seemed to be that setting up your Audessey through the Onkyo was the way to go, as it takes your room dimensions, listening distance, etc. into account. I used the Onkyo for a while with this setting and was, for the most part, satisfied. About a week ago, however, I began listening to some 5.1 SACD's and a vinyl LP through this mode and the resulting sound seemed, for lack of better terminology, "plugged up". I'd remembered playing back the same SACD's before on another receiver and being blown away. Out of curiosity, I switched the receiver over to "direct" mode and viola! There was the spaciousness and transparency I was missing with the Onkyo! I had truly confused the "tighter" sound of the MultiCh mode with a more satisfying soundfield when the reality was the opposite. To my ears, MultiCh sounded far too closed off and muffled, though there was a bit more "punch" to it in the low end. I compensated for this by adjusting my speaker settings just a bit and upping the volume on my subwoofer slightly. The sound I get out of this receiver now is nothing short of spectacular and it's what I wanted to begin with. I had one of my audiophile friends over for a before and after comparison on the SACD's, and we are both in complete agreement that direct sounds much more transparent and washes over the room instead of merely "filling" the room, as it did with Audessey employed. I have had the same experience with BD titles as well. For any of you who initially found direct mode to be too shallow-sounding, I assure you that all it takes is the slightest bit of tweaking to fix the issue. Anyway, I know all of this is totally subjective, but I just wanted to add my voice to the direct column. I'm far happier with this mode - even if I'm in the minority.

[Go Blue]

This should probably be in the receiver section.

I have always been curious of the Direct vs Multichannel issue.

Crackin, can you confirm or deny the above?

[Croweyes1121]

Who's "Crackin"? I'm assuming another poster? Not sure, although, as I said, I'm sure all of this is subjective. And if MultiCh sounds better to anyone here than Direct, I'm in no way saying that they're wrong for that opinion. But in my estimation, Direct is a much better representation, both literally and viscerally, of what I'm intended to hear and what I expect to hear from my home theater. For me, it was literally a night and day difference. It was almost equatable to old discmans that had a "bass boost" option on them. They pack more "oomph" with it enabled, and if you're used to it and switch to clean playback, the audio will sound a little hollow by comparison. On the other hand, if you attune yourself to listening to music properly and then employ that same feature, it sounds obscenely forced onto the more balanced and nuanced original, clean presentation. This is the closest thing I can give you to compare to my experience with MultiCh and Direct. Direct, to me, is far superior in virtually every respect. MultiCh does sound a bit more...how do I put this...punchy, perhaps? But it also feels just a little bit processed to my ears, as if it were designed to *fill* my room and not to *envelop* it. With Direct, it does that - for me. And I did not expect myself to say that at all based on the testimonials I'd read about MultiCh. To me, Direct is the way to go, hands down. But again, it's just a personal preference, so I'm not sure what there is here to confirm or deny.

[aramis109]

From the manual, "Direct" is pretty much unfiltered from the source. "Multich" uses the Audyssey (sp) setup, plus or minus any tweaks that you've made to it.

For me, listening to movies, Direct is much more flat and doesn't have the punch you describe. It's basically without calibration. Multich has Audyssey plus my own tweaks and sounds worlds better. However, that may be different with music.

Also, once you tweak it, there's really no difference between the two outside of your settings. Audyssey isn't perfect, but it does get things close. If you run straight Audyssey vs. your tweaked Direct settings, you may get a better sound. In reality though from what I've read there isn't much difference between them. Whatever suits you best.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by aramis109

From the manual, "Direct" is pretty much unfiltered from the source. "Multich" uses the Audyssey (sp) setup, plus or minus any tweaks that you've made to it.

This is pretty close. Direct plays the source exactly as it accepts it, meaning there is absolutely no processing applied. No audyssey, no equilizer, no tone controls, and no soundfields. Mutli-channel does apply your equilizers (custom or audyssey) so this is the one most of you will want to use. Multi-channel should be used when the original source is multi-channel before any processing, like movies or PS3 games. If the source is not multichannel, like music and tv shows, then you should use a sound field like Pro Logic or DTS Neo.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack

This is pretty close. Direct plays the source exactly as it accepts it, meaning there is absolutely no processing applied. No audyssey, no equilizer, no tone controls, and no soundfields. Mutli-channel does apply your equilizers (custom or audyssey) so this is the one most of you will want to use. Multi-channel should be used when the original source is multi-channel before any processing, like movies or PS3 games. If the source is not multichannel, like music and tv shows, then you should use a sound field like Pro Logic or DTS Neo.

Thanks, that is what I was thinking. For music and tv that is not a multichannel source, is there much of a difference between Pro Logic or DTS Neo?

I switch back and forth from time to time and can't tell the difference. I usually settle on DTS Neo because it lights up more things on the receivers display.

[MacDaddyOJack]

DTS Neo will turn a 2 channel source into a 6.1 PLII will convert it to 5.1. I think there is a PLIIX or EX that will convert to 6.1 as well. Either way, there is really not much difference at all. The difference is primarily in the processing of ambient sounds. However, if the 2 channel source is Dolby surround, use the Pro Logic II decoder and it will be nearly the same as Dolby Digital 5.1 My main guidline is the source. If it is a Dolby source, then I use Pro Logic, if it is a DTS source, then I use Neo. If the source is TV, I usually just default to Pro Logic.

One last thing, the Pure Audio mode on these recievers is exactly the same as Direct, except it also shuts off all video processing in an effort to eleminate excess noise that could be caused by the video processing circuitry.

[Croweyes1121]

Multi-channel should be used when the original source is multi-channel before any processing, like movies or PS3 games. If the source is not multichannel, like music and tv shows, then you should use a sound field like Pro Logic or DTS Neo.

Again, I would discourage these kinds of blanket rules. Trust your own ears and choose what sounds best to YOU in your own home theater environment.

I do have to take issue with a few things that were said here, though:

1. The Direct mode does NOT disable all functionality in tweaking how your discs sound, and this was part of my point. You can still change your speakers' crossover frequencies, range, and subwoofer levels, both through manual volume control and crossover in-receiver. All of these adjustments will potentially *drastically* affect what you ultimately hear, even while still using Direct. The difference is that MultiCh also takes into account the proportions of your room, sets the range of your speakers based on what its microphone picks up, adjusts the Onkyo's equalizer based on what it assumes to be optimal listening conditions based on the parameters it sets out for that listening space. That assumption may - or may not - be what is ultimately most pleasing to YOUR EARS.

2. I would strongly disagree with using a Pro-Logic mode or the DTS Neo mode when listening to a native 2-channel source like music. Stereo should remain stereo in my opinion. You can make it sound like surround if you employ those filters, but manipulation like that is nothing short of a degradation of the original recording if you ask me. But then, I'm a purist when it comes to audio.

if the 2 channel source is Dolby surround, use the Pro Logic II decoder and it will be nearly the same as Dolby Digital 5.1

I could not disagree with this more. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a discreet format. Pro Logic is a matrixed format. Night and day, apples to oranges difference IMHO.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

I would strongly disagree with using a Pro-Logic mode or the DTS Neo mode when listening to a native 2-channel source like music. Stereo should remain stereo in my opinion. You can make it sound like surround if you employ those filters, but manipulation like that is nothing short of a degradation of the original recording if you ask me. But then, I'm a purist when it comes to audio.

Of course, music should always be listened to in stereo. I forgot to mention that. I was saying that those processing methods should really only be applied to things like tv and old video games from say a Nintendo 64 or a Wii since they do not have anything more than RCA connections.

[Stephan.klose]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Again, I would discourage these kinds of blanket rules. Trust your own ears and choose what sounds best to YOU in your own home theater environment.

I do have to take issue with a few things that were said here, though:

1. The Direct mode does NOT disable all functionality in tweaking how your discs sound, and this was part of my point. You can still change your speakers' crossover frequencies, range, and subwoofer levels, both through manual volume control and crossover in-receiver. All of these adjustments will potentially *drastically* affect what you ultimately hear, even while still using Direct. The difference is that MultiCh also takes into account the proportions of your room, sets the range of your speakers based on what its microphone picks up, adjusts the Onkyo's equalizer based on what it assumes to be optimal listening conditions based on the parameters it sets out for that listening space. That assumption may - or may not - be what is ultimately most pleasing to YOUR EARS.

2. I would strongly disagree with using a Pro-Logic mode or the DTS Neo mode when listening to a native 2-channel source like music. Stereo should remain stereo in my opinion. You can make it sound like surround if you employ those filters, but manipulation like that is nothing short of a degradation of the original recording if you ask me. But then, I'm a purist when it comes to audio.



I could not disagree with this more. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a discreet format. Pro Logic is a matrixed format. Night and day, apples to oranges difference IMHO.

Having the 605 myself I would go with Multichannel. If you pick direct the subwoofer won't even get used. That usually helps to get a fuller sound

[Croweyes1121]

If you pick direct the subwoofer won't even get used. That usually helps to get a fuller sound

Um...that should definitely NOT be the case. I use Direct and the subwoofer is most certainly used.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Um...that should definitely NOT be the case. I use Direct and the subwoofer is most certainly used.

Well, that depends- if you use direct and haven't tweaked the settings, your crossover settings may not apply and the sub may NOT be used.

I would think you'd need to apply the crossover settings or otherwise it would go with whatever the defaults were.

Guessing here however.

[Go Blue]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Again, I would discourage these kinds of blanket rules. Trust your own ears and choose what sounds best to YOU in your own home theater environment.

I do have to take issue with a few things that were said here, though:

1. The Direct mode does NOT disable all functionality in tweaking how your discs sound, and this was part of my point. You can still change your speakers' crossover frequencies, range, and subwoofer levels, both through manual volume control and crossover in-receiver. All of these adjustments will potentially *drastically* affect what you ultimately hear, even while still using Direct. The difference is that MultiCh also takes into account the proportions of your room, sets the range of your speakers based on what its microphone picks up, adjusts the Onkyo's equalizer based on what it assumes to be optimal listening conditions based on the parameters it sets out for that listening space. That assumption may - or may not - be what is ultimately most pleasing to YOUR EARS.

2. I would strongly disagree with using a Pro-Logic mode or the DTS Neo mode when listening to a native 2-channel source like music. Stereo should remain stereo in my opinion. You can make it sound like surround if you employ those filters, but manipulation like that is nothing short of a degradation of the original recording if you ask me. But then, I'm a purist when it comes to audio.



I could not disagree with this more. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a discreet format. Pro Logic is a matrixed format. Night and day, apples to oranges difference IMHO.

Are you saying to use Stereo when watching TV?

[SDon1969]

Originally Posted by Croweyes1121

Who's "Crackin"?

A very helpful AV Moderator here.

I tried & tried playing with the listening mode settings (in the other threads you mentioned) but I always come back to Multich for my blurays, I just can't get Direct to sound as rich.

[jq71586]

Originally Posted by SDon1969

A very helpful AV Moderator here.

I tried & tried playing with the listening mode settings (in the other threads you mentioned) but I always come back to Multich for my blurays, I just can't get Direct to sound as rich.

Yeah, I was tweaking with this last night too while watching The Departed. Direct on mine actually made the voice sound better out of the center speaker but I could barely feel the sub. Multichannnel sounds much fuller.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Originally Posted by schultz

Are you saying to use Stereo when watching TV?

I wouldn't, if you did, then the voices would all come from the left and right sides of the tv, not the center where they should be.

[Croweyes1121]

Well, that depends- if you use direct and haven't tweaked the settings, your crossover settings may not apply and the sub may NOT be used.

Well, I can't vouch for how a subwoofer in Direct behaves if you don't have the crossover frequency set properly to utilize it, but then I'd assume, that being the case, the sub wouldn't be employed regardless of which setting you choose. I guess it's possible to have your crossover set in such a way that you won't ever use the sub, but I mean...common sense, people.

Are you saying to use Stereo when watching TV?

No, I tend to use Pro-Logic for television broadcasts as most things I watch that aren't already 5.1 signals (drama series, etc) are intended to be matrixed into Pro-Logic streams anyway.

I just can't get Direct to sound as rich.
Direct on mine actually made the voice sound better out of the center speaker but I could barely feel the sub. Multichannnel sounds much fuller.

As I've said in my previous post, the subwoofer / fullness issue - specifically - was remedied for me with a little tweaking of my speaker settings and sub volume and crossover frequency. I'd be happy to post the settings I settled on once I get back home to reference them if anyone would like. I get just as much bass response out of my subwoofer at current settings using Direct - if not more - than I got previously using MultiCh. Admittedly, though, I was having this precise issue before I did a few adjustments.

UPDATE:
FULL BAND on Fronts, Center, and Surrounds
80Hz crossover on the sub.
Sub volume in the 11:30am position.
Manual sub crossover all the way up.

I get AMAZING bass response this way, and a much wider soundstage than with MultiCh. I suppose it could be my speakers, I don't know.