What the... Huh? (lost noob in the world of audio)

[bruss01]

Ok...

For the past umpteen years we have been using a (good quality) portable stereo (RCA jacks) connected to our TV. Just this past November my wife convinced me to upgrade to a six speaker system. The sound is OK, really not better than the old boom box (which is still a great little unit, let me tell you). Still using the RCA jacks on the TV. Our last big sound up grade was from mono to stereo. That was pretty amazing in itself.

Don't get me wrong, I like good sound, I'm just not willing to pay the price of a car to get it.

So we're doing a home entertainment upgrade (getting a big Samsung tv and blu-ray), and I'm told people nowdays use "receivers" to improve the audio. Ok, fine... I want something that will produce a significant improvement without costing as much as the new 52" TV. I've read of some receivers going for 2k and higher, and that's just not realistic for us IMHO. If it's over $250, it's likely going to have to wait... a few years...

Also bear in mind my wife is not a technophile... she will get frustrated if she has to turn on the tv... no sound? turn on the receiver... now switch the audio input to the dvd player... no wait that's the xbox... now it's set to aux... AARRGH! Seriously, it needs to be TURN ON-GET SOUND simple or she will insist on it being taken out.

Any suggestions? Is this realistic for us, or should we just pass on the whole receiver concept? If it won't provide a substantial improvement at reasonable cost while being simple to use, then IMHO it is not worth it for us. For instance, if the BEST SOUND THERE IS is a 10 and what we have now is a 3 (AM radio being a 1) then I want to be able to move up to a 5 or better for under $250. Realistic or lost cause?

Thanks.

[Slec]

i guess it depends on your wants and needs. If you want a receiver that you can use optical to get better sound, that is at one price point (say $300 and under new, even less if used).

Since your replacing the receiver, you could get something that plays lossless audio for around $350 on up.

As for your wife frustrations...a good universal remote can take care of this. (press tv, it turns on the tv, receiver and makes sure they are set to the correct setting)...

[SS316SRV]

The first question is, what do you want your sound system to achieve? Do you want to utilize the uncompressed and lossless audio capabilities? Do you just want more sound?

[bruss01]

I wish I could answer those questions...

Where is "lossless" on the scale? Does that take you from a 4 to a 6... or from a 9.5 to a 9.75?

Those things don't mean anything to me... what I'm after is can an average person with no special training and without the ears of a bat walk into the room and say... "hey, that's a pretty noticeable improvement..." We're not looking for LOUDER because there's no reason our neighbors need to be able to listen to our tv, we're looking for BETTER sound. I DO care about dialogue. Most of the times in movies the special effects and dramatic music is so overpowering I can't make out what people are saying. As a consequence I watch a lot of tv and videos with the subtitles turned on. I resent the "for the hard of hearing" designation, because there's no problem with my hearing - I can hear people talking just fine, it's making out what they're saying among all the ambient noise that's the problem. I need to be able to make the dialogue crisp, not all muddy like it often becomes during noisy sequneces. It's a little hard to follow a conversation that goes something like "Hey, do you need the *tires squeal* so he can *explosion* and what do you mean you did the *glass shatters* OH SO THAT'S WHY HE *machinegun fires*" It makes enjoying the movie a lot harder.

Guess what I'm saying is, what's the best I can do for under $250 and is the improvement worthwhile.

ETA - our speaker set is pretty decent, I think it is Creative Labs... designed for "surround" if you're willing and able to put speakers all over the room - unfortunately we can't do that, all our speakers have to be relatively close to the TV for the forseeable future. They were a mid-range set at Fry's, not cheap, not expensive, and I don't have any complaints specifically about the speakers, I believe it's the source (our 1998 stereo tv) that is the limiting factor.

[Slec]

So if I'm reading this correctly, you have your blu-ray player hooked in to the tv, and then going RCA out of the tv to the receiver.. is that correct?

[bruss01]

Current setup:

Panasonic stereo tv (circa 1998)
Panasonic DVD player
NO RECEIVER
(TV connected directly to the 6-speaker system via RCA connectors)


Upgraded setup (coming soon):

Samsung 52" TOC (7 series) 1080p
Samsung 1500 blu-ray disk player
< $250 RECEIVER WORTHWHILE?
(unsure about how to connect everything, but need simplicity of operation)

(Also have xbox and satelite system to connect, currently these are connected directly to the tv)

[prerich]

Originally Posted by bruss01

Any suggestions? Is this realistic for us, or should we just pass on the whole receiver concept? If it won't provide a substantial improvement at reasonable cost while being simple to use, then IMHO it is not worth it for us. For instance, if the BEST SOUND THERE IS is a 10 and what we have now is a 3 (AM radio being a 1) then I want to be able to move up to a 5 or better for under $250. Realistic or lost cause?

Thanks.

I'm quoting you now, if the best sound there is - rates a 10, you have just put me at a point of saying relative to what? Compared to the best sound out there - my system rates more like a 4 or a 5. Compared to the average Joe my system is in the 8-10 range. Your statement is relative to what each person that has tried to help you has heard. You can't move up to a 5 or better for $250.00.

The very fact that you are going to buy a BD player means that you and your wife will have to do some type of switching (either through the TV or a receiver - makes no difference). With HDMI whatever you select for BD you will get the video and the sound. How do you watch TV, do you have a cable box or sat? If they have HDMI cables, that problem will be solved - do all of your switching through the receiver and let you TV do what it does best...be a monitor.

You want the Samsung 1500, and a Samsung set right? You can get the 1500 for $309.00 here http://www.buydig.com/shop/basket.as...sks=SAMBDP1500, (highly rated internet dealer) and the TV - original price is right at $3000.00. I don't know how much you were going to pay, but you can get this http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LN52A5...9931022&sr=8-6 for only $1799.00 you add the savings (about $60.00 for the BD and $1200.00 for the TV) you now have $1260.00 added to your audio budget! If you want warranties go to SquareTrade warranties - they cover everything now (not just ebay stuff). You can then get the Onkyo 605 for 319.99 with a three year warranty and get the Polk system for about $200 - $250 - there, you now have your audio system for under 600.00 - only draw back ....wires.

[mr.hidef]

Originally Posted by bruss01

Ok...

For the past umpteen years we have been using a (good quality) portable stereo (RCA jacks) connected to our TV. Just this past November my wife convinced me to upgrade to a six speaker system. The sound is OK, really not better than the old boom box (which is still a great little unit, let me tell you). Still using the RCA jacks on the TV. Our last big sound up grade was from mono to stereo. That was pretty amazing in itself.

Don't get me wrong, I like good sound, I'm just not willing to pay the price of a car to get it.

So we're doing a home entertainment upgrade (getting a big Samsung tv and blu-ray), and I'm told people nowdays use "receivers" to improve the audio. Ok, fine... I want something that will produce a significant improvement without costing as much as the new 52" TV. I've read of some receivers going for 2k and higher, and that's just not realistic for us IMHO. If it's over $250, it's likely going to have to wait... a few years...

Also bear in mind my wife is not a technophile... she will get frustrated if she has to turn on the tv... no sound? turn on the receiver... now switch the audio input to the dvd player... no wait that's the xbox... now it's set to aux... AARRGH! Seriously, it needs to be TURN ON-GET SOUND simple or she will insist on it being taken out.

Any suggestions? Is this realistic for us, or should we just pass on the whole receiver concept? If it won't provide a substantial improvement at reasonable cost while being simple to use, then IMHO it is not worth it for us. For instance, if the BEST SOUND THERE IS is a 10 and what we have now is a 3 (AM radio being a 1) then I want to be able to move up to a 5 or better for under $250. Realistic or lost cause?

Thanks.

Dude.......If you spent that kind of $ on a 52" TV, you can afford another little bit for sound. SOUND IS 75% OF THE HOME THEATER EXPERIENCE.
By the way..................LOST CAUSE.

[mr.hidef]

Hey bruss01,
How do you know good sound when you have never had it? I think you should go shopping around and make your own decisions, and frankly get off this thread,and go to the home theater pics thread and see what's goin on there for gear? Just stop dealing with some of these cats on this site,cause they will only try to persuade you to buy something along their taste level.

[bruss01]

Originally Posted by mr.hidef

Hey bruss01,
How do you know good sound when you have never had it? I think you should go shopping around and make your own decisions, and frankly get off this thread,and go to the home theater pics thread and see what's goin on there for gear? Just stop dealing with some of these cats on this site,cause they will only try to persuade you to buy something along their taste level.

Thanks, good advice and I intend to take it.

BTW there is ONE reason I bother to go to a theater for summer blockbuster despite the outrageous ticket prices and that is for the SOUND. That is where I recognize decent sound from, the actual theater. I don't expect to re-create it in my living room, I was just hoping to do a little better than we have now. Apparently (you noticed) some folks think you need to go all the way or don't bother, anything less is a piece of crap. BTW I checked out the Onkyo 605/606 unit that a lot of folks are raving about - folks say it doubles as a space heater (raised the room temp 10 degrees), and has a lot of issues such as popping noises, dropping cc subtitles if using something other than the HD connector (which I would have to do until such time as we upgrade our sat service). Sounds like a lot of problems, which I don't have now. I think the money can be better spent.

Someone said sound is 75% of the experience... NO, not for everyone it isn't. I've enjoyed plenty of movies while my wife was sleeping, using just the cc subtitles and ZERO sound. Sure, it's nice to have good sound but any sound or no sound at all you can still enjoy a good picture and a good story. Guess I'm just not the die-hard audiophile that many here are....

I'm going to sign off this thread now, ponder the good advice that has been given, weigh the pros and cons - and wait for that money to come in and how best to allocate it.

Thanks everyone who helped.

[Driver_King]

The funny part about the people who post all of the negative things and problems about the 605 just were unlucky and got a lemon or are expecting too much. You shouldn't expect a powerful receiver to run cool. It's uncommon for those problems and if you're room isn't the size of a small closet, then heating shouldn't be a problem. You could look at the Yamaha 663 too, which is a receiver that is similar to the 605.

[JJ]

Raised room temperature by 10 degrees? Does anyone know what 10 degrees really is? I'm sorry, but that was a bold lie by whoever said that his Onkyo served as a room heater. Sure they run hot, but that is only for those who don't know how to keep their equipment properly ventilated - sticking it into a closed wooden cabinet with an inch of breathing space on all sides is just plain foolish!

A cop once told me - "There's no point to getting myself wet pulling people over for reckless speeding when it's pouring rain - when they lose control of their car that is their own punishment."

[Scooby Blu]

Originally Posted by bruss01

Thanks, good advice and I intend to take it.

BTW there is ONE reason I bother to go to a theater for summer blockbuster despite the outrageous ticket prices and that is for the SOUND. That is where I recognize decent sound from, the actual theater. I don't expect to re-create it in my living room, I was just hoping to do a little better than we have now. Apparently (you noticed) some folks think you need to go all the way or don't bother, anything less is a piece of crap. BTW I checked out the Onkyo 605/606 unit that a lot of folks are raving about - folks say it doubles as a space heater (raised the room temp 10 degrees), and has a lot of issues such as popping noises, dropping cc subtitles if using something other than the HD connector (which I would have to do until such time as we upgrade our sat service). Sounds like a lot of problems, which I don't have now. I think the money can be better spent.

Someone said sound is 75% of the experience... NO, not for everyone it isn't. I've enjoyed plenty of movies while my wife was sleeping, using just the cc subtitles and ZERO sound. Sure, it's nice to have good sound but any sound or no sound at all you can still enjoy a good picture and a good story. Guess I'm just not the die-hard audiophile that many here are....

I'm going to sign off this thread now, ponder the good advice that has been given, weigh the pros and cons - and wait for that money to come in and how best to allocate it.

Thanks everyone who helped.

You are welcome Bruss01. It was a quite the experience reading this thread. BESTof luck to you and your wife !! Hope to hear what you decide on in the near or distant future !

[bruss01]

Originally Posted by Scooby Blu

You are welcome Bruss01. It was a quite the experience reading this thread. BESTof luck to you and your wife !! Hope to hear what you decide on in the near or distant future !

Well!

Here we are again!

Regarding sound, we stuck with the Creative Labs powered speaker set until recently. It was ok - at least we got some decent low end frequencies out of the sub-woofer and the other speakers performed "adequately". However, the dialogue was never crisp enough for me to hear it clearly against a busy audio background. Other noises and sound effects tended to muddy the words making it necessary for me to fall back on my old crutch, subtitles. The input for this speaker set was the headphone jack on the TV, which I'm sure didn't help matters much.

Well, recently the wife put her foot down regarding the new sofa we VERY BADLY needed (dog destroyed it totally over the past five years). Seriously, a hobo would think twice before spending the night on it. So we ended up with a new living room set. While we were at the furniture store, we spotted an "entertainment center". Now the wife has been bugging me for 14 years to do something about our hodgepodge (seriously, a second-hand table and a wine crate on the floor) supporting the current tv and components. This one was pretty nice, and contained a small space heater - attractive because she complains this time of year about how cold the living room is sometimes - we don't like heating the whole house to 72 degrees just to be warm in one room.

Well, we spent money like drunken sailors (thank God for credit plans!) and on the day it was all delivered I was faced with the Herculean task of unplugging, re-routing all of the equipment. The wife left with a friend to go out for the day and I was left to my own devices. Somewhere in all this cord-shuffling I decided - I need more devices!

A quick trip to Fry's followed. I got an APC power supply unit (this should have gone in before the TV, I've put it off far too long) and an Onkyo 5.1 receiver and speaker set. Yes it's HTIB. And it cost me about $260, right around what I'd always envisioned spending on a real sound system.

We still are not connecting the rear speakers. We are running it in the 3.1 configuration for now.

I have to say, I noticed immediately that there was a significant improvement in sound. This is the "next step up" I was looking for! The bass was deeper and richer. But what really impressed me was how clear the dialogue is coming out of the center channel. That, right there, is what made this unit pay off for me. Sure, I had to get some HD and optical cable to get everything hooked up right, and sure, I did end up spending a wee bit more than I had planned. But I've got an affordable setup that meets my expectation for what a modern TV-Blu-Ray setup should sound like without pouring mega-bux into it.

It's a little more complex now, with another component to manage, and we have a buttload of remotes to juggle... maybe I can find a way to program them all into one easy-to-use controller.

Observations - The Onkyo unit was still super tall. I had to get some rubber washers and stack them under the glass top of the entertainment system, about an inch, to make it fit. That seems to be working very well so far.

Also, to work seamlessly with the Onkyo, I had to get a converter for the Xbox 360 to convert composite (3 color) to HDMI. Sure, you could make the composite video cables work... but it wasn't smooth and elegant and I could tell the wife would become easily frustrated with that setup.

Very happy with this setup! This will probably be all the improvement we need for our TV sound until someday when we are comfortably well-off and are prepared to drop some huge bucks to "do it right" as some of the audiophiles here would have recommended.

BTW it took me an entire day to route all the cables behind the unit invisibly. zip ties, adhesive cable mounts, etc... and a lot of planning, wiring, ripping said wiring out, re-planning, moving components - to finally get it done. But it's beautiful and easy to trace the connections. Finally no more possum's nest behind the TV!

[mr.hidef]

Originally Posted by bruss01

Thanks, good advice and I intend to take it.

BTW there is ONE reason I bother to go to a theater for summer blockbuster despite the outrageous ticket prices and that is for the SOUND. That is where I recognize decent sound from, the actual theater. I don't expect to re-create it in my living room, I was just hoping to do a little better than we have now. Apparently (you noticed) some folks think you need to go all the way or don't bother, anything less is a piece of crap. BTW I checked out the Onkyo 605/606 unit that a lot of folks are raving about - folks say it doubles as a space heater (raised the room temp 10 degrees), and has a lot of issues such as popping noises, dropping cc subtitles if using something other than the HD connector (which I would have to do until such time as we upgrade our sat service). Sounds like a lot of problems, which I don't have now. I think the money can be better spent.

Someone said sound is 75% of the experience... NO, not for everyone it isn't. I've enjoyed plenty of movies while my wife was sleeping, using just the cc subtitles and ZERO sound. Sure, it's nice to have good sound but any sound or no sound at all you can still enjoy a good picture and a good story. Guess I'm just not the die-hard audiophile that many here are....

I'm going to sign off this thread now, ponder the good advice that has been given, weigh the pros and cons - and wait for that money to come in and how best to allocate it.

Thanks everyone who helped.

My 805 runs BARELY WARM TO THE TOUCH...even after being on for 7-9 hrs.I think some people got bad units,when they first came out.......but I got mine on release day!

[mr.hidef]

Originally Posted by bruss01

Thanks, good advice and I intend to take it.

BTW there is ONE reason I bother to go to a theater for summer blockbuster despite the outrageous ticket prices and that is for the SOUND. That is where I recognize decent sound from, the actual theater. I don't expect to re-create it in my living room, I was just hoping to do a little better than we have now. Apparently (you noticed) some folks think you need to go all the way or don't bother, anything less is a piece of crap. BTW I checked out the Onkyo 605/606 unit that a lot of folks are raving about - folks say it doubles as a space heater (raised the room temp 10 degrees), and has a lot of issues such as popping noises, dropping cc subtitles if using something other than the HD connector (which I would have to do until such time as we upgrade our sat service). Sounds like a lot of problems, which I don't have now. I think the money can be better spent.

Someone said sound is 75% of the experience... NO, not for everyone it isn't. I've enjoyed plenty of movies while my wife was sleeping, using just the cc subtitles and ZERO sound. Sure, it's nice to have good sound but any sound or no sound at all you can still enjoy a good picture and a good story. Guess I'm just not the die-hard audiophile that many here are....

I'm going to sign off this thread now, ponder the good advice that has been given, weigh the pros and cons - and wait for that money to come in and how best to allocate it.

Thanks everyone who helped.

Best of luck to you sir.................come back when you have decided what to do, and we all here will try to help the best way we can

[ozzman]

I have a funny feeling when he said he has a Panasonic DVD player it's actually a receiver ,DVD player(theater box type) so he would have speakers hooked up to it.
That's the only thing i could think of ,Because if he doesn't then he don't have speakers hooked up

Or maybe he's just playing or really doesn't know what he truly is talking about.(Sorry Brother thats how your looking to me)

Good luck again and i hope you get or don't get what your looking for