Criterion?

[bykes]

What is the Criterion collection? I've seen it discussed before, but I don't really understand it. What and why are movies in this collection?

Only reason I ask is because a movie that I hold near and dear to me is the Wes Anderson movie "Bottle Rocket". And I see its a Sony Pictures movie and it's not on Blu yet. But its being release on Nov 18 under the Criterion Collection.

Thanks.

[kpkelley]

They are a home video distribution company that focuses on independent and foreign films. They are renowned for their special features and attention to the source material when transferring films.

Criterion FAQ's

[mikejet]

Criterion is a company that selects movies that it feels deserves special treatment. They do their best to make a great transfer, though sometimes this is not possible(see Hard Boiled). It's great that they are coming to Blu-ray and I will be getting Chungking Express and The Third Man.

[CheapChildren]

My goal is to try and get every criterion release on Blu-Ray as they're released since I missed out on DVD.

[Lucy Diamond]

All that....PLUS they (more times than not) have really REALLY useful extras that you will watch over and over again.

The Sid and Nancy Criterion DvD has old interviews in pristine condition, RADIO interviews and even old talk show footage (with SIOUXSIE as part of the Bromley Contingent!!!)

I mean...the Criterion people have uncovered such rare gems...it is almost like they are sleeping with people on the inside.

Definitely worth it if you like the movies they are doing.

[benricci]

Criterion single handedly created the "special edition" as we know it today, starting with their Laserdisc line back in 1984. They were also among the first advocates for OAR presentations of films on home video. We owe a lot to them.

If you see a film you like coming out from Criterion, rest assured that it is getting an extra dose of love.

[fettastic]

They aren't always "the best and the brightest". Heck they were one of the last companies to embrace anamorphic widescreen because they just trransferred their LDs. That didn't stop them from charging insane prices however. $50 for The Blob? SERIOUSLY?

They also absolutely refuse to remix audio, hence why so many of their releases only have 1.0 mono sound.

As for the quality of their extras, they are mostly text based. Articles, reviews, essays, etc. Not exactly thrilling stuff. Sometimes they're only barely related such as a Hollywood 10 documentary on Spartacus, or a featurette on the Marine Corp in The Rock (not exactly an independent release).

As for video quality, their Robocop LD and DVD was roundly criticized for not looking up to snuff. I bought both because at the time it was the only way to get the director's cut. Despite having a pricetag of $99 for the LD and $39.99 for the non-anamorphic DVD, the only extra was a text essay with a couple of animated GIFs thrown in and some storyboards. Yeah, kind of irritating.

Adding insult to injury, they refuse to liscence out extra material. That's why New Line Cinema had to go back and create all the extras for Se7en so unless you can find the Criterion LD (it was never released on DVD), those commentaries and documentaries are gone forever.

Criterion is WAAAY overrated. Most studio efforts have much more value and for 1/3 the cost.

[Red Hood]

I had the robocop one, I sold it. Wasn't all that great.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by fettastic

They aren't always "the best and the brightest". Heck they were one of the last companies to embrace anamorphic widescreen, but that didn't stop them from charging the most for everything.
They also absolutely refuse to remix audio, hence why so many of their releases only have 1.0 mono sound.
As for the quality of their extras, they are mostly text based. Articles, reviews, essays, etc. Not exactly thrilling stuff. Sometimes they're only barely related such as a Hollywood 10 documentary on The Rock (not exactly an independant release).
As for video quality, their Robocop LD and DVD was roundly criticized for not looking up to snuff. I bought both. Despite having a pricetag of $99 for the LD and $39.99 for the non-anamorphic DVD, the only extra was a text essay with a couple of animated GIFs thrown in and some storyboards. Yeah, kind of irritating.
Adding insult to injury, they refuse to liscence out extra material. That why New Line Cinema had to go back and create all the extras for Se7en so unless you can find the Criterion LD (it was never released on DVD), those commentaries and documentaries are gone forever.
Criterion is WAAAY overrated. Most studio efforts have much more value and for 1/3 the cost.

Someone is sure stuck in 1999....Criterion has been doing anamorphic transfers since the late 90s, sir. Their discs cost more because, frankly, they are a smaller company and getting the rights to these films and producing supplements for titles that have a smaller appeal is costly. Most people who understand the work (and cost) that is involved in one of their releases can appreciate the premium price tag.

And they don't remix audio on many films because it simply isn't necessary, and they believe in preserving the film the way it was originally presented. Mono films from the 1960s are really going to see little benefit from a modern 5.1 mix.

Most of their extras are also NOT text based, there are countless great commentaries and video features in ADDITION to the text based supplements and liner notes.

Again, the Robocop thing is going back nearly 11 years. Why are we still discussing it?

And finally, they have licensed extras. The new Sony release of Life of Brian has both Criterion commentaries. They spent the money producing them, though, so if New Line doesn't want to pony up for the supplements that Criterion created, that's not Criterion's fault. A lot of times there are also rights issues that restrict the licensing of supplements created specifically for a Criterion version.

I think you are being overly harsh, as many of your criticisms were valid at one time, but not anymore.

To the original poster, now that we are in the hi-def era, you should feel confident in any upcoming Criterion release on blu-ray.

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by fettastic

They aren't always "the best and the brightest". Heck they were one of the last companies to embrace anamorphic widescreen, but that didn't stop them from charging the most for everything.

They also absolutely refuse to remix audio, hence why so many of their releases only have 1.0 mono sound.

To each their own. I agree on the anamorphic DVD bit, though they long argued (and some outside experts agreed early on) that trusting a DVD player to reformat the video internally was not a great plan, and that they would rather make sure the AR was kept correct, etc. by not using anamorphic processing. Of course, as 16:9 TVs became the standard, that became a problem with their early releases, and I'm sure that if they had it to do over they would have gone anamorphic from the beginning. But their inability to read the future HDTV market shouldn't be held so severely against them.

And I'm 100% on board not remixing the audio. It drives me crazy when classics are released by major studios without any attempt to keep the original audio. Others (obviously including yourself) disagree, but again, there are those who appreciate (and want) the original track.

To each their own, though. Criterion is a line geared for a niche customer, If you don't fit that niche then it isn't for you. If you fit that niche, though, they are terrific. (And you still have to give them credit for essentially creating the "special edition," offering director or DP approved transfer, director's commentary, etc. even if you don't care for other aspects of their product.)

As for the OP, giving a full history of the company would take forever so I'll just post the obvious Wiki-link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criterion_collection . I didn't notice anything really incorrect on a quick look just now, so that's probably a good starting point if nothing else.

[benricci]

Originally Posted by fettastic

As for the quality of their extras, they are mostly text based. Articles, reviews, essays, etc. Not exactly thrilling stuff. Sometimes they're only barely related such as a Hollywood 10 documentary on Spartacus, or a featurette on the Marine Corp in The Rock (not exactly an independent release).

I know I already posted, but I couldn't let the Spartacus comment go by unnoticed. Do you even have that release? 'Cause this is what's on it. It's pretty impressive, plus the Hollywood 10 feature is included to put the film in its historical context. Hardly irrellivant...

SPECIAL FEATURES


- Stunning new 16x9 transfer of the 1991 fully restored Super Technirama version
- Dolby Digital 5.1 surround soundtrack
- Audio commentary by producer-actor Kirk Douglas, actor Peter Ustinov, novelist Howard Fast, producer Edward Lewis, restoration expert Robert A. Harris, and designer Saul Bass
- Screenwriter Dalton Trumbo’s scene-by-scene analysis
- Additional Alex North score compositions
- Restoration demonstration
- Rare deleted scenes
- Vintage newsreel footage
- 1960 promotional interviews with Jean Simmons and Peter Ustinov
- 1992 video interview with Peter Ustinov
- Behind-the-scenes “gladiatorial school” footage
- The 1960 documentary The Hollywood Ten, plus archival documents about the blacklist
- Original storyboards by Saul Bass
- Hundreds of production stills, lobby cards, posters, print ads, and a comic book
- Sketches by director Stanley Kubrick
- Original theatrical trailer

[Cadrian]

Originally Posted by fettastic

Criterion is WAAAY overrated. Most studio efforts have much more value and for 1/3 the cost.

For the most part they are trying to present the film in the way that it was intended to be seen back when it was first released. The only real exceptions that make to that is when the orginal director is their to give their approval to do modern updates. I love how they bring in the old directors and have them watch over the process to insure that everything is done properly to how it was ment to be presented.

The Rock I think is a poor example... I still dont understand why Criterion released this.

RoboCop has had some bad releases from all parts.... It seemed to be a pain in the ass film to present. IE first release of the Blu-ray.....

Considering Sony has no extras on the DVD release of Bottle Rocket.... I would think Criterion would do the same extras as they did for Wes Andersons Rushmore for Bottle Rocket as well.

*edit Looked up extras on Amazon
DIRECTOR-APPROVED SPECIAL BLU-RAY EDITION FEATURES:
New, restored high-definition digital transfer supervised and approved by director Wes Anderson and director of photography Robert Yeoman
DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 soundtrack
Commentary by director/co-writer Anderson and co-writer/star Owen Wilson
The Making of Bottle Rocket : an original documentary by filmmaker Barry Braverman featuring Anderson, James L. Brooks, James Caan, Temple Nash Jr., Kumar Pallana, Polly Platt, Mark Mothersbaugh, Robert Musgrave, Richard Sakai, David and Sandy Wasco, Andrew and Luke and Owen Wilson, and Robert Yeoman
The original thirteen-minute black-and-white Bottle Rocket short film from 1992
Eleven deleted scenes
Anamorphic screen test, storyboards, location photos, and behind-the-scenes photographs by Laura Wilson
Murita Cycles, a 1978 short film by Braverman
The Shafrazi Lectures, no. 1: Bottle Rocket
PLUS: A booklet featuring an essay by executive producer James L. Brooks, an appreciation by Martin Scorsese, and original artwork by Ian Dingman

To me... If your a true Fan of Bottle Rocket you would buy the Criterion, I highly doubt youll see any of these extras on a Sony release. Plus I bet the transfer will be best you'll ever get.

[fettastic]

Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA

To each their own. I agree on the anamorphic DVD bit, though they long argued (and some outside experts agreed early on) that trusting a DVD player to reformat the video internally was not a great plan, and that they would rather make sure the AR was kept correct, etc. by not using anamorphic processing. Of course, as 16:9 TVs became the standard, that became a problem with their early releases, and I'm sure that if they had it to do over they would have gone anamorphic from the beginning. But their inability to read the future HDTV market shouldn't be held so severely against them.

Or maybe that was just an excuse so they wouldn't have to make new masters and just re-release their LD work. That seems a lot more likely to me since WB ALWAYS released anamorphic and never had a problem.

And I'm 100% on board not remixing the audio. It drives me crazy when classics are released by major studios without any attempt to keep the original audio. Others (obviously including yourself) disagree, but again, there are those who appreciate (and want) the original track.

Some reason why they couldn't include both? Again, a BS Criterion claim for not investing more money, yet charging insane prices.

To each their own, though. Criterion is a line geared for a niche customer, If you don't fit that niche then it isn't for you. If you fit that niche, though, they are terrific. (And you still have to give them credit for essentially creating the "special edition," offering director or DP approved transfer, director's commentary, etc. even if you don't care for other aspects of their product.)

As for the OP, giving a full history of the company would take forever so I'll just post the obvious Wiki-link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criterion_collection . I didn't notice anything really incorrect on a quick look just now, so that's probably a good starting point if nothing else.

I'll give them the special edition credit, but I don't feel anyone owes them anything because it's not exactly like nobody would have ever though of doing it if they didn't do it first. Electronic Press Kits have been around almost as long as film has afterall.

Also Criterion "inventing" letterbox is a myth:
"Several CED titles were issued in letterbox format ("Amarcord", "The Long Goodbye", "Manhattan", "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" and RCA's "King of Hearts"). RCA called this their "innovative widescreen mastering technique," and on the back of the caddy provided an explanation for the black bands at the top and bottom of the television screen. CED was the first video format to feature letterboxing, with the release of "Amarcord" in January 1984. This was eight months prior to the release of "Manhattan" on LaserDisc, which is often mistakenly considered the first letterboxed release. - thanks to Jeff Lawson for this info"
http://www.audioholics.com/education...d-and-pan-scan

[dwigtkschrute]

Man, if Criterion could release "Do The Right Thing" on Blu, I'd be ecstatic.

Also, Silence of the Lambs and The Life of Brian would be boss. Don't know if it can happen or not, but I'd love it. I know Life of Brian is already out on Blu, but not as a Criterion disc.

We'll have to wait and see. Might have to break down and buy the Seven Samurai finally, too, if they release that one.

Criterion in Blu is the best thing to happen to the format since...ever!

[fettastic]

Originally Posted by benricci

I know I already posted, but I couldn't let the Spartacus comment go by unnoticed. Do you even have that release? 'Cause this is what's on it. It's pretty impressive, plus the Hollywood 10 feature is included to put the film in its historical context. Hardly irrellivant...

SPECIAL FEATURES


- Stunning new 16x9 transfer of the 1991 fully restored Super Technirama version
- Dolby Digital 5.1 surround soundtrack
- Audio commentary by producer-actor Kirk Douglas, actor Peter Ustinov, novelist Howard Fast, producer Edward Lewis, restoration expert Robert A. Harris, and designer Saul Bass
- Screenwriter Dalton Trumbo’s scene-by-scene analysis
- Additional Alex North score compositions
- Restoration demonstration
- Rare deleted scenes
- Vintage newsreel footage
- 1960 promotional interviews with Jean Simmons and Peter Ustinov
- 1992 video interview with Peter Ustinov
- Behind-the-scenes “gladiatorial school” footage
- The 1960 documentary The Hollywood Ten, plus archival documents about the blacklist
- Original storyboards by Saul Bass
- Hundreds of production stills, lobby cards, posters, print ads, and a comic book
- Sketches by director Stanley Kubrick
- Original theatrical trailer

Not only did I own it, I wrote a professional, paid review of it.
http://www.dvdivas.net/movies/review...criterion.html
As you can see, there's less than an hour of footage, and most of it is crap anyway like red carpet walks, etc.

Also, most people don't realize that it's colorized black and white.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by fettastic

Not only did I own it, I wrote a professional, paid review of it.
http://www.dvdivas.net/movies/review...criterion.html
As you can see, there's less than an hour of footage, and most of it is crap anyway like red carpet walks, etc.

Also, most people don't realize that it's colorized black and white.

From your review:

The extras are comprehensive and give a good feeling of the era of the films release as well as behind the scenes information. All in all this is a great DVD

[benricci]

Originally Posted by fettastic

Not only did I own it, I wrote a professional, paid review of it.
http://www.dvdivas.net/movies/review...criterion.html
As you can see, there's less than an hour of footage, and most of it is crap anyway like red carpet walks, etc.
Also, most people don't realize that it's colorized black and white.

The film is colorized black and white? Jeez, you have no idea how film works, do you? If I'm not mistaken, the restoration was done using color separation elements. Please read:

http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirm...EA1D2809894E3F

[fettastic]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

From your review:

It IS a great DVD, particularly since Spartacus has always looked like crap.

I'm just pionting out that Criterion uses a lot of bizarre suppliments to pad out their bullet points and charge crazy cash.

[fettastic]

Originally Posted by benricci

The film is colorized black and white? Jeez, you have no idea how film works, do you? If I'm not mistaken, the restoration was done using color separation elements. Please read:

http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dirm...EA1D2809894E3F

You are mistaken.

Since this link has nothing to do with Spartacus, I'm puzzled why you included it.

Listen to the commentary, they specifically say they colorized the b&W interpositive.

It doesn't take much to see it if you're looking for it. the whole DVD is shades of brown with background in B&W. It's just very well done compared to Ted Turner's bastardizations.

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by fettastic

Or maybe that was just an excuse so they wouldn't have to make new masters and just re-release their LD work. That seems a lot more likely to me since WB ALWAYS released anamorphic and never had a problem.

Some reason why they couldn't include both? Again, a BS Criterion claim for not investing more money, yet charging insane prices.

An excuse? You can just as easily use the LD master to create an anamorphic disc as you can a non-anamorphic disc. Depending on the actual source format, you might not benefit at all from the additional resolution, but you certainly can do it just as easily and shut people up. So, that I don't buy. Also, what does Warner have to do with anything? Different company... different material... different customer.

As for audio, if the goal is to reproduce the source as accurately as possible, then what's the purpose in remixing the audio. All that does is make people argue about whether the new mix (which may require the recording of new elements) is "true" to the original. Sure... there's definitely a money component, but I guess I just don't see the need to go through the work for something that goes against the philosophy of presenting the "original material" in its best form.

Originally Posted by fettastic

I'll give them the special edition credit, but I don't feel anyone owes them anything because it's not exactly like nobody would have ever though of doing it if they didn't do it first. Electronic Press Kits have been around almost as long as film has afterall.

Also Criterion "inventing" letterbox is a myth:

For a long time on LD nobody else DID do it. It took quite awhile for the major studios to offer anything remotely comparable on their blockbuster titles as Criterion was offering on their often niche titles. So, yes, they created the special edition and deserve credit. As for EPKs, the one that came with "Birth of a Nation" somehow missed my inbox.

And I only quoted the bit about letterboxing because I NEVER said anything to that effect, and wasn't sure if you were implying that I did or were just setting the record straight. If the latter, then you're absolutely correct. If the former, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm well aware of the early history of letterboxing on all media formats in the early 80s. Criterion did have a role in popularizing it on LD and educating customers as to the benefits, however, but they certainly didn't "invent" it.

Again, I completely understand that Criterion isn't a company that caters to the mass market, and they don't have the budget to spend on "The 400 Blows" as Warner does with "The Dark Knight." That's just the nature of the beast, though. If Warner were the one releasing "The 400 Blows" would THEY spend that much more on it? More importantly, would they even release it?