Denon DVD-2500BT

[Bullseye]

Has anyone gotten their hands on one of these yet. Its gotten good reviews on WhatHiFi

http://whathifi.com/Review/Denon-DVD-2500BT/

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Has anyone gotten their hands on one of these yet. Its gotten good reviews on WhatHiFi

http://whathifi.com/Review/Denon-DVD-2500BT/

Yes i have the denon bullseye & i can tell you its the best bluray player on the planet as i speak!! Everything Whathifi says about it is spot on, the PQ is to die for, my jaw dropped to the flaw its that good, the pics sharp as a pin, beautiful colours, unbelievable detail to the picture, its totally awesome & as for the AQ thats as equally good, its got bags of scale & presence, wonderful deep tight low bass , it sounded like id changed my speakers, i have every praise for this player i cant recommend it highly enough, its worth every penny, i strongly recommend you get a demo of this player as if you dont you will be missing out on the way bluray really should be? not even close

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

Yes i have the denon bullseye & i can tell you its the best bluray player on the planet as i speak!! Everything Whathifi says about it is spot on, the PQ is to die for, my jaw dropped to the flaw its that good, the pics sharp as a pin, beautiful colours, unbelievable detail to the picture, its totally awesome & as for the AQ thats as equally good, its got bags of scale & presence, wonderful deep tight low bass , it sounded like id changed my speakers, i have every praise for this player i cant recommend it highly enough, its worth every penny, i strongly recommend you get a demo of this player as if you dont you will be missing out on the way bluray really should be? not even close

I don't know what you are going on about with regards to the audio quality, but this is a transport player. It does absolutely nothing to the audio, it just transports the audio codecs. It bitstreams Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA directly to the receiver or processor to do the decoding. Any thing regarding scale, presence and deep bass are the result of your receiver/prepro and speakers and not the 2500BTCI.

I would not declare the 2500 the best. It can't be, it is only needed for certain applications. Unless you have a receiver or prepro that decodes the lossless audio codecs, then the transport is not the ideal player for you.

I had the player, and it was wonderful for what it was, a blu-ray transport.

[btf1980]

I can attest to the build quality....it's built like a sherman thank..about 20 pounds.

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by btf1980

I don't know what you are going on about with regards to the audio quality, but this is a transport player. It does absolutely nothing to the audio, it just transports the audio codecs. It bitstreams Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA directly to the receiver or processor to do the decoding. Any thing regarding scale, presence and deep bass are the result of your receiver/prepro and speakers and not the 2500BTCI.

I would not declare the 2500 the best. It can't be, it is only needed for certain applications. Unless you have a receiver or prepro that decodes the lossless audio codecs, then the transport is not the ideal player for you.

I had the player, and it was wonderful for what it was, a blu-ray transport.

Im afraid i totally disagree with you entirely ! In the British magazine What hifi sound & vision are also exaggerating are they? I recently owned the Pioneer lx70a bluray player that does decode the audio & it sounded nuthing like this player, yes the denon just transports the audio but if it wasnt for this player then my amp, speakers, sub just wouldnt have been able to show its full potential & if you can say that this player is just okay for what it is? mmm no comment Go & click on the review from What hifi on the OP !!

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

Im afraid i totally disagree with you entirely ! In the British magazine What hifi sound & vision are also exaggerating are they?

Go & click on the review from What hifi on the OP !!

Few here would argue that the 2500BT may be the best BD transport yet.

But those of us who have been around a bit would also say that a rapturous review by What HiFi counts for virtually nothing.

One question though - what did the Pioneer sound like with bitstream audio fed by HDMI to the same amplifier?

regards,

Nick

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Few here would argue that the 2500BT may be the best BD transport yet.

But those of us who have been around a bit would also say that a rapturous review by What HiFi counts for virtually nothing.

One question though - what did the Pioneer sound like with bitstream audio fed by HDMI to the same amplifier?

regards,

Nick

Hi Nick, the pioneer sounded fantastic through the same amp via HDMI but the Denon sounds better IMO & as for the What hifi reviews? id say ive been around for abit (over 20years) & what hifi is one of the best mags id say that i have faith in however i could point at a few mags i dont!!

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

Hi Nick, the pioneer sounded fantastic through the same amp via HDMI but the Denon sounds better IMO & as for the What hifi reviews? id say ive been around for abit (over 20years) & what hifi is one of the best mags id say that i have faith in however i could point at a few mags i dont!!

The bits-are-bits brigade will be along shortly (I'm not a member by the way) to say how they can't sound different, but it would help to understand your system, connections and configuration. Did you have the Pioneer sending bitstream to the amp?

Nick

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

Im afraid i totally disagree with you entirely ! In the British magazine What hifi sound & vision are also exaggerating are they? I recently owned the Pioneer lx70a bluray player that does decode the audio & it sounded nuthing like this player, yes the denon just transports the audio but if it wasnt for this player then my amp, speakers, sub just wouldnt have been able to show its full potential & if you can say that this player is just okay for what it is? mmm no comment Go & click on the review from What hifi on the OP !!

I think you need to understand what a transport actually is first, then after you do, understand why commenting about the audio quality of a TRANSPORT player makes no sense.

I read and understood the hifi link, but I don't think you did. Furthermore, I had the 2500BTCI myself. It is a great transport player. Operative word being transport. It transports the audio codecs untouched to your receiver to decode. The 2500BTCI does nothing to the audio, it simply takes it from point A to point B. Everything is done in your receiver.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Few here would argue that the 2500BT may be the best BD transport yet.

No one is debating that. It is the best transport only player on the market. It is also the sole transport only player on the market as well.

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by btf1980

I think you need to understand what a transport actually is first, then after you do, understand why commenting about the audio quality of a TRANSPORT player makes no sense.

I read and understood the hifi link, but I don't think you did. Furthermore, I had the 2500BTCI myself. It is a great transport player. Operative word being transport. It transports the audio codecs untouched to your receiver to decode. The 2500BTCI does nothing to the audio, it simply takes it from point A to point B. Everything is done in your receiver.

So you're saying that the Denon and the Pioneer MUST sound the same when connected to the same AVR by HDMI...?

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

So you're saying that the Denon and the Pioneer MUST sound the same when connected to the same AVR by HDMI...?

I never said that.

[btf1980]

I don't know how clear I can be about this. The 2500BTCI is unique. It is a one of a kind piece of machinery. It should not be compared to a player that internally handles audio codecs. It is a transport only. It should be for someone that understands the application of it...i.e. someone who wants their receiver or processor to handle, process and decode all the audio codecs directly.

Anyone talking about the sound quality of a transport is essentially telling us that they don't know what a transport is.

[stick99]

If we could agree that a high end dvd player using bitstream sounds better than a $29 K-mart dvd player bitstream sound. Then, if that's true, theoretically shouldn't a high end Blu Ray bitstream be somewhat superior, due to build and anti-vibration etc, than a mid priced Blu-ray bitstream.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by stick99

If we could agree that a high end dvd player using bitstream sounds better than a $29 K-mart dvd player bitstream sound. Then, if that's true, theoretically shouldn't a high end Blu Ray bitstream be somewhat superior, due to build and anti-vibration etc, than a mid priced Blu-ray bitstream.

Bitstream can only be done via HDMI. Anti-vibration etc are not issues that come into play since this is a purely digital interface. That has no effect on what your receiver is capable of doing. Again, we need to understand that bitstreaming audio is simply a conduit. It's moving it from the source disc to your receiver to decode. It does absolutely nothing to the sound. When a bitstream player is involved, the sonics are the sole result of your receiver or processor and nothing else. So we should look at the receiver or processor you are using and deduce everything from there in terms of sonics.

There's no such thing as a "high end" bitstream. The 2500BTCI is the only show in town as a pure digital transport player so they can charge a premium. When more come on the market, the prices will drop drastically.

To reiterate, a transport player like the 2500BTCI is only good for people that have receivers or processors that can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. It is pointless in any other application outside of that since you won't be hearing lossless audio.

[welwynnick]

So Jase says the Denon sounds better than the Pioneer over HDMI:

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

as for the AQ thats as equally good, its got bags of scale & presence, wonderful deep tight low bass , it sounded like I'd changed my speakers

I recently owned the Pioneer lx70a bluray player that does decode the audio & it sounded nuthing like this player

yes the denon just transports the audio but if it wasnt for this player then my amp, speakers, sub just wouldnt have been able to show its full potential

the pioneer sounded fantastic through the same amp via HDMI but the Denon sounds better IMO

And btf says a transport doesn't do anything to affect the sound quality:

Originally Posted by btf1980

It does absolutely nothing to the audio, it just transports the audio codecs

scale, presence and deep bass are the result of your receiver/prepro and speakers and not the 2500BTCI.

I think you need to .... understand why commenting about the audio quality of a TRANSPORT player makes no sense.

It transports the audio codecs untouched to your receiver to decode

The 2500BTCI does nothing to the audio.

Anyone talking about the sound quality of a transport is essentially telling us that they don't know what a transport is

It does absolutely nothing to the sound

When a bitstream player is involved, the sonics are the sole result of your receiver or processor and nothing else.

The I tried to clarify the argument:

So you're saying that the Denon and the Pioneer MUST sound the same when connected to the same AVR by HDMI...?

I never said that.

Funny, when I was learning English at school, I must have sick on the day we did comprehension. I'm not taking sides here, and I do fully understand and support the objectives and benefits of a pure transport. There does seem be a disconnect here though. Is it simply the bits-are-bits argument all over again, or is it somethign different?

Nick

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

So Jase says the Denon sounds better than the Pioneer over HDMI:

And btf says a transport doesn't do anything to affect the sound quality:

The I tried to clarify the argument:

Funny, when I was learning English at school, I must have sick on the day we did comprehension. I'm not taking sides here, and I do fully understand and support the objectives and benefits of a pure transport. There does seem be a disconnect here though. Is it simply the bits-are-bits argument all over again, or is it somethign different?

Nick

There is a disconnect. My contention was that a transport player does not affect sound. Jase was going on about how the Denon 2500BTCI has great sound, how tight the bass was etc. I was solely refuting that point.

I won't make any claims that the 2500BTCI and Pioneer player will sound identical because they are connected via HDMI. There are way too many variables.

However if they are both bitstreaming audio data to the AVR to decode, then they will sound the same. The AVR is doing the decoding.

If the player itself was doing the decoding, then you open up different variables. With bitstreaming, the AVR is doing the decoding 100% of the time. The transport plays no role there.

Same page now?

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by btf1980

There is a disconnect. My contention was that a transport player does not affect sound. Jase was going on about how the Denon 2500BTCI has great sound, how tight the bass was etc. I was solely refuting that point.

I won't make any claims that the 2500BTCI and Pioneer player will sound identical because they are connected via HDMI. There are way too many variables.

However if they are both bitstreaming audio data to the AVR to decode, then they will sound the same. The AVR is doing the decoding.

If the player itself was doing the decoding, then you open up different variables. With bitstreaming, the AVR is doing the decoding 100% of the time. The transport plays no role there.

Same page now?

OK ill rephrase btf lets say "my amp sounds better for using a transport player!! but i can tell you this much for sure that the sound i am getting now is alot better than i was getting using the pioneer player, no doubt about it, as when i first borrowed the denon from my local hifi store i knew this player was going to be good but i didnt expect it to sound this much better, now i dont know how & i dont know why but the sound from my "amp!!" is now so much better & if you or anybody else could not tell the difference then your clearly tone deaf!! I think IMO it sounds better because by reducing the sockets & inputs like optical, coaxial etc reduces interference, i could be wrong ? All i was doing here was replying to the OP as he or she asked what the player was like & i just stated what i was seeing & hearing!!

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by stick99

If we could agree that a high end dvd player using bitstream sounds better than a $29 K-mart dvd player bitstream sound. Then, if that's true, theoretically shouldn't a high end Blu Ray bitstream be somewhat superior, due to build and anti-vibration etc, than a mid priced Blu-ray bitstream.

This would of also been a point i would of made stick99 & always have looked at it this way as if we didnt then why not just stick to cheaper dvd players etc? it may not be due to the anti vibration & so on but its surely down to something?

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by btf1980

There is a disconnect. My contention was that a transport player does not affect sound. Jase was going on about how the Denon 2500BTCI has great sound, how tight the bass was etc. I was solely refuting that point.

I won't make any claims that the 2500BTCI and Pioneer player will sound identical because they are connected via HDMI. There are way too many variables.

However if they are both bitstreaming audio data to the AVR to decode, then they will sound the same. The AVR is doing the decoding.

If the player itself was doing the decoding, then you open up different variables. With bitstreaming, the AVR is doing the decoding 100% of the time. The transport plays no role there.

Same page now?

Thats the sort of thing that I was driving at, and I think we have understanding, rather than agreement, though.

From your position, it sounds like you don't consider digital audio jitter to be a factor in the SQ associated with a transport, nor some of the other factors like noise, distortion or interference on the digital audio output?

Nick