"Format War" vastly exaggerated ? - Blu-ray Forum

Electric_Haggis · 03-20-2007, 05:38 AM

The whole "format war" is WAY overhyped, and now with the inevitable success of the PS3, it's getting downright silly.
Obviously Blu-ray will be around forever, but unless something completely unexpected happens, so will HDDVD. Blu-ray was pretty much the underdog until the PS3 appeared. But both formats are receiving enough support from suppliers and consumers to stay strong and coexist until dual-format players render the whole "war" irrelevant (or even if they don't!). Eventually it'll be just like DOLBY vs DTS, SACD vs DVD-A, DVD -R vs +R, PC vs MAC, PLAYSTATION vs XBOX vs NINTENDO, etc, etc...
There's no reason to "wait until the format war ends and a victor emerges" because ONE won't, so it's bizarre that responsible sections of the media are pushing this view!

I have an XBox 360 HDDVD drive ($200), which I use with a home theatre PC and a 720p projector. It's TERRIFIC. My favourite titles (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, King Kong, Backdraft), are yet to appear on Blu-Ray. On the other hand, there are a handful of titles (like Casino Royale, Spiderman) that will never appear on HDDVD. Eventually I'll buy a Blu-ray drive when...
1. The prices come down to sensible levels (when???)
2. More killer Blu-ray titles make the purchase irresistible.
3. Less Blu-ray titles rely on outdated MPEG-2 video. Come on guys! When we're spending this much on a Blu-ray player, don't keep short-changing us! Anything MPEG-2 can do, VC1 or AVC can do better. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not compared the same title on both formats. So WHY are they persisting with this?
4. Less Blu-ray titles rely on plain Dolby Digital sound. DD on a Blu-ray title is ridiculous. The Dolby Digital Plus or True-HD tracks on the same title on HDDVD are easily audibly better. More uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD please! And what happened to 7.1 ?

Maximus · 03-20-2007, 05:54 AM

I seem to be asking this to more and more people these days; why are you here?

Electric_Haggis · 03-20-2007, 06:07 AM

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that I'm not biased either way. In time, I'll happily own both formats.
I'm just saying it like I see it. Surely you'd agree with points 3 and 4 at least?

Maximus · 03-20-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that I'm not biased either way. In time, I'll happily own both formats.
I'm just saying it like I see it. Surely you'd agree with points 3 and 4 at least?

Now you are making me take your obvious trolling seriously, not cool.

1. Get a PS3.

2. True.

3. Sony, Disney, Lionsgate, Warner, and Paramount have all been using advanced codecs routinely for their recent titles. Sony more so than Lionsgate, but Warner and Disney do so routinely.

4. PCM rocks, and if you are listening to DD on BD, you need to get a HDMI receiver. DTS-HD High Resolution Audio is currently not decodable, so impossible to listen to. TrueHD should be the same as PCM, barring any faults with the encoder/decoder. BD uses lossless audio way more than HD DVD.

WriteSimply · 03-20-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that I'm not biased either way. In time, I'll happily own both formats.
I'm just saying it like I see it. Surely you'd agree with points 3 and 4 at least?

Your point 3) doesn't make sense from a consumer point of view. If the video quality works (as in you have no complaints) then it works regardless if it's "old school". The issues of MPEG-2 is known. The issues of VC-1 and AVC are unknown. It's better to minimize MPEG-2 issue than to incur VC-1/AVC issues now and discovering it later.

Your point 4) is uninformed. There are MORE BD titles on LPCM 5.1 than there are titles on TrueHD on HD-DVD. In fact, there are MORE BD titles on DTS HDMA than there are titles on TrueHD on HD-DVD.

Titles that have LPCM also have Dolby Digital versions, usually at 640kpbs. Dolby Digital at 640kpbs is the same as Dolby Digital Plus at 640kpbs. BD doesn't need Dolby Digital Plus unless a movie has more than 5.1 channels. Issues regarding 6.1/7.1 falls under the movie studios and not the format. Most movies are mastered in 5.1. Very few are in 6.1/7.1; usually they require remixing from the original stem tracks which require the involvement of the director.

fuad

Electric_Haggis · 03-20-2007, 10:34 AM

Maxpower1987, somehow I'm getting the impression you're a Blu-ray-ONLY kinda guy.
1. If anything, I'm a home theatre PC kinda guy. I'll get a PS3 when they can output 24p, have enough decent games and don't cost so goddamn much (in Australia, they're AU$1000).
3 & 4. You're right. PCM does rock (and no licensing fees either). DTS-HD and True-HD are pretty redundant if PCM does the same or better job, and you're right about the major studios opting for the better codecs. But this far down the line, we shouldn't STILL be getting fairly major titles with MPEG2 and/or vanilla Dolby Digital, (Aeon Flux, World Trade Centre, Superman Returns, Babel, etc. ).

Bottom line: I'm not pushing HDDVD over Blu-ray. Almost definitely, I (we?) will end up with both. It's just that if we buy a title on either HD format, it's likely to be the last incarnation of that film for a VERY long time. I just want Blu-ray to be the best it can be, especially for the sake of the titles that are exclusive to it.....

Scorxpion · 03-20-2007, 11:47 AM

Hey for the guy who is sticking only for HD_DVD..

First about MPEG2 decoding i challenge you if you have watched A BD using this codec,because if you are then you will never say VC1 is better than MPEG2 only for some title where mpeg2 has been used incorrectly or not optimised all this is due to technical problems

Did you watched Tears of sun Black hawk dawn,Kingdom of heaven and Crank BIG FISH lately and sure you would notice how MPEG2 is wonderful

Anyway from the begining HD_DVD fans keep saying VC-1 is better than MPEG2 and you are commenting and using this statement.

PS3 even if it has 24 capability Are you sure you have a TV capable of 1080p/24, Because as i know there exists only 4 brands using this feature and costing too much than a standard 1080p/60

So how are you using your XBOX 360 with 1080p/24

Blue · 03-20-2007, 12:25 PM

I think we can slow this thread right down. From experience I know where this thread is heading - to a place where we don't allow threads to go.

Electric_Haggis I would suggest you have a look at a few of Maxpower's posts before you start making silly assertions. Also if you make silly uninformed comments such as your points 3 & 4 what do you expect.

You may also like to add you didn't wander down to you local Walmart one Saturday arvo to pick your HD-DVD add on. You either
A. Flew to another country to get it.
B. Got someone else in another country to fly in with it.
C. Got it shipped (air or sea).
D. Have access to pre release units.

As it's not released in Oz until the 29th March (where your posts here popped out from).
Does it get power from the XBOX or automatically handle 240v, or do you need some sort of voltage conversion to power it? Sorry I haven't seen one yet, I had a look in at JB HiFi and EB games and Dick Smith a few days ago, none had any demo units.

Shin-Ra · 03-20-2007, 01:06 PM

It has another messy power brick, no idea if it's 110-240v universal though.

JTK · 03-20-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

I seem to be asking this to more and more people these days; why are you here?

An obvious increase in the last month or so. It's just more desperation as things for Blu continue to sky rocket.

I'm kind of surprised at how large my ignore list is getting around here. Oh well, at least we have that.

calcajun · 03-20-2007, 04:41 PM

720P is like, sooooooo yesterday.

Gremal · 03-20-2007, 04:48 PM

The only worthwhile point is that the "war" is overhyped. I totally agree. The real war is with standard DVD. It is similar to SACD vs DVD-A, both of which "lost" to standard CD before they could have a chance to compete directly.

And no one is forcing anyone to adopt BD, last time I checked. So coming to this forum and making up bogus excuses for adopting HD-DVD and not BD is pretty much a troll. I could have bought a 360 and done the same thing. I and many others chose to wait for the PS3 instead and we spent the same on that what haggis spent on his 360+HD-DVD drive.

kknight · 03-20-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

1. The prices come down to sensible levels (when???)
2. More killer Blu-ray titles make the purchase irresistible.
3. Less Blu-ray titles rely on outdated MPEG-2 video. Come on guys! When we're spending this much on a Blu-ray player, don't keep short-changing us! Anything MPEG-2 can do, VC1 or AVC can do better. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not compared the same title on both formats. So WHY are they persisting with this?
4. Less Blu-ray titles rely on plain Dolby Digital sound. DD on a Blu-ray title is ridiculous. The Dolby Digital Plus or True-HD tracks on the same title on HDDVD are easily audibly better. More uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD please! And what happened to 7.1 ?

3. Alot of Blu-ray movies released lately are in AVC MPEG-4 codec which is equal ot VC-1 or better..

4. Alot of Blu-ray movies support PCM audio, many more titles compare to HD-DVD which uses True-HD... Both are uncompressed and equal in terms of quality.

I own both formats, I'm using my Blu-ray player much more then my HD-DVD. There are way more titles I'm interested on Blu-ray then HD-DVD, price I spent on both players:
HD-DVD $400 (360) + $200 (add-on)
Blu-ray $600 (PS3)

Spankey · 03-20-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

1. The prices come down to sensible levels (when???)

Sensible to any HD-DVD supporter is always below market value. In other words, less than any HD-DVD player on the market, or free. The Samsung BD-P1000 is $499 at Amazon. Is that reasonable? Probably not to any HD-DVD supporter.

Quote:

2. More killer Blu-ray titles make the purchase irresistible.

Funny that two of the titles you mentioned will be available on Blu-ray. You have no other favorite movies from other studios other than King Kong or...uhm...Backdraft? Okayyyy....

Quote:

3. Less Blu-ray titles rely on outdated MPEG-2 video. Come on guys! When we're spending this much on a Blu-ray player, don't keep short-changing us! Anything MPEG-2 can do, VC1 or AVC can do better. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not compared the same title on both formats. So WHY are they persisting with this?

How many AVC titles have you compared on HD-DVD? I think there was only 1 or 2 AVC titles on HD-DVD. Know which ones those were? How many MPEG2 titles? Blu-ray has already shown its flexibility in being able to handle any codec quite well. The space is there for quality transfers in any codec. HD-DVD s limited 30gb space makes VC-1 necessary.

Quote:

4. Less Blu-ray titles rely on plain Dolby Digital sound. DD on a Blu-ray title is ridiculous. The Dolby Digital Plus or True-HD tracks on the same title on HDDVD are easily audibly better. More uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD please! And what happened to 7.1 ?

Huh? You really are reaching here. There are more uncompressed PCM soundtracks any Blu-ray than HD-DVD. Do some more homework. The Dolby Digital Plus tracks you are hearing on HD-DVD (with the exception of some Universal titles) are identical to the Dolby Digital tracks on Blu-ray.

You do know this is a Blu-ray forum? Max, give yourself 5 points for successfully spotting the troll.

Electric_Haggis · 03-21-2007, 09:59 AM

Wow. This was my first post on blu-ray.com, and I'm stunned at how much aggro this post generated. I had to look up "troll" to see what it meant - and no, I'm not here for that.

Once again, can't you see that I'm NOT pushing HD-DVD over Blu-ray, but rather suggesting that the format war is over-hyped and that the two formats are likely to coexist unless anything particularly supernatural happens?
Make no mistake - I am a future Blu-ray owner. I TOO want all future blu-ray-exclusive titles to be have the BEST POSSIBLE picture and sound. That's that. This other blu-ray.com thread shows that a lot of blu-ray titles feature MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital (albeit at 640 kbs, which is a marginal improvement)....
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

Blu-ray and HD-DVD both need to be as future-proof as possible. It's irrelevant if one's subjective experience of a certain disc is that it looks "wonderful" in MPEG-2. The point is that - all other factors being equal - it will stand to look BETTER in VC-1 or AVC. No debate, surely?

Put it another way. When we buy, say, "Momento" (MPEG-2, 18mbps), or "Million Dollar Baby" (AC-3 640kps), it's for keeps. These will likely be the last versions released and the last versions we buy for a VERY long time. In all probability, we'll still be running these discs on our LED/DLP/SXRD 1080p projectors (or whatever) in 2015. So isn't it a shame if that one and only release falls noticably short of the mark, be it now or then? Don't you think EVERY title should feature VC1 or AVC with the highest bitrates possible, and uncompressed PCM audio ?

THAT'S the point I'm making.

Scorxpion · 03-21-2007, 10:32 AM

Now i will give you an example if Superman Returns its done in MPEG2 using the maximum bitrate the Blu-ray Disc will look outstanding.You are saying BD if its done in MPEG2 meaning its worthless this is not true at all..

Have you watch lately FOX titles done in MPEG2 except for planet of Apes and judge by urself if its better or not than VC-1 ,,Even i recommend you to have a look on recent titles done in MPEG2 like big fish,Layer cake,gridrion gang ect.............and they are looking fabulous and i dont think so if it is done in VC-1 will look better than they are or they will look softer more than real

Now have a look on rocky whic using 40mbs bit rate ,,,do you think HD-DVD is capable of maximising their bit rate Like BD .......So who is better ......

HDJK · 03-21-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Blu-ray and HD-DVD both need to be as future-proof as possible. It's irrelevant if one's subjective experience of a certain disc is that it looks "wonderful" in MPEG-2. The point is that - all other factors being equal - it will stand to look BETTER in VC-1 or AVC. No debate, surely?

You're right, we all want the best quality possible. But do some more research here (especially in the Insider's thread) and you will see, that there is no evidence whatsoever that MPEG2 (if given the bitrate) is inferior to VC1. There are a lot of people on AVS that say otherwise, but look at their agenda (amir and the likes...). Paidgeek (the SPE insider) mentioned MPEG2 to be better for some movies and AVC for some others. VC1 as of now is a major pain encoding wise (Microsoft anyone?). When called out to prove with only 1 title that is encoded with MPEG2 and VC1 showing the superiority of the latter, there is always silence.

Blue · 03-21-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Wow. This was my first post on blu-ray.com, and I'm stunned at how much aggro this post generated. I had to look up "troll" to see what it meant - and no, I'm not here for that.

Pleased to hear it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Once again, can't you see that I'm NOT pushing HD-DVD over Blu-ray, but rather suggesting that the format war is over-hyped and that the two formats are likely to coexist unless anything particularly supernatural happens?

There is about only one thing that most agree with (media, Industry executive's and many forums) there can only be one format -that's where the agreement suddenly stops. I think history also supports that conclusion.

There is a saying put your money where your mouth is. There are many here that claim neutrality and they either have both formats or neither, you on the other hand went to quite some trouble to spend money on HD-DVD, then make some uninformed comments and have a go at one of the guys here that is a really nice person - that is text book troll behaviour. You unfortunately arrived right in the middle of a troll season (when something big happens CES, release of something big in this case Casino Royale) the trolls arrive or revive. My apologies for getting you confused with one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Make no mistake - I am a future Blu-ray owner. I TOO want all future blu-ray-exclusive titles to be have the BEST POSSIBLE picture and sound. That's that. This other blu-ray.com thread shows that a lot of blu-ray titles feature MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital (albeit at 640 kbs, which is a marginal improvement)....
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

Blu-ray and HD-DVD both need to be as future-proof as possible. It's irrelevant if one's subjective experience of a certain disc is that it looks "wonderful" in MPEG-2. The point is that - all other factors being equal - it will stand to look BETTER in VC-1 or AVC. No debate, surely?

Have a look at number of threads here. My simplistic conclusion is just like with computers different compression algorithms suit specific situations. They all have different strengths and weaknesses. I think from memory MPEG2 has been enhanced specifically for HD (backward compatible) just as MPEG4 has been enhanced for HD part 10 to be exact, at least they got smart and called it AVC instead and better than it's other name H.264. Just because MPEG2 doesn't compress as much, it doesn't mean the quality is necessarily less, you are just going to use much more space a luxury Blu-ray has for the shorter films.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

Put it another way. When we buy, say, "Momento" (MPEG-2, 18mbps), or "Million Dollar Baby" (AC-3 640kps), it's for keeps. These will likely be the last versions released and the last versions we buy for a VERY long time. In all probability, we'll still be running these discs on our LED/DLP/SXRD 1080p projectors (or whatever) in 2015. So isn't it a shame if that one and only release falls noticably short of the mark, be it now or then? Don't you think EVERY title should feature VC1 or AVC with the highest bitrates possible, and uncompressed PCM audio ?

THAT'S the point I'm making.

Almost everyone here is after the best picture. There have been a few flops transferring across and not all have been MPEG2 or Blu-ray.

There have been comparisons of the growth of Blu-ray vs DVD and Blu-ray is well ahead of where DVD was. On DVD there have been many remastered releases, then the Directors cut etc etc. I just don't want to buy another copy, so I don't care what CODEC is used as long as they are getting the highest quality possible.

I would prefer just one format as there are going to be many people burnt. However that is not the case, it's DVD all over again only this time its gotten a little out of hand and Big Blue didn't hit heads together this time.

Electric_Haggis · 03-21-2007, 01:04 PM

To the writers of the last few posts, THANK YOU for being level-headed and lucid in your arguments, and SORRY if I seemed to be starting this thread on the wrong note.

By the way, see here for a list of some HD-DVD Dolby Digital Plus bit-rates. They start at 640kbps, and go up to 2Mbps...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822245

Cheers.

john_1958 · 05-09-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis

The whole "format war" is WAY overhyped, and now with the inevitable success of the PS3, it's getting downright silly.
Obviously Blu-ray will be around forever, but unless something completely unexpected happens, so will HDDVD. Blu-ray was pretty much the underdog until the PS3 appeared. But both formats are receiving enough support from suppliers and consumers to stay strong and coexist until dual-format players render the whole "war" irrelevant (or even if they don't!). Eventually it'll be just like DOLBY vs DTS, SACD vs DVD-A, DVD -R vs +R, PC vs MAC, PLAYSTATION vs XBOX vs NINTENDO, etc, etc...
There's no reason to "wait until the format war ends and a victor emerges" because ONE won't, so it's bizarre that responsible sections of the media are pushing this view!

I have an XBox 360 HDDVD drive ($200), which I use with a home theatre PC and a 720p projector. It's TERRIFIC. My favourite titles (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, King Kong, Backdraft), are yet to appear on Blu-Ray. On the other hand, there are a handful of titles (like Casino Royale, Spiderman) that will never appear on HDDVD. Eventually I'll buy a Blu-ray drive when...
1. The prices come down to sensible levels (when???)
2. More killer Blu-ray titles make the purchase irresistible.
3. Less Blu-ray titles rely on outdated MPEG-2 video. Come on guys! When we're spending this much on a Blu-ray player, don't keep short-changing us! Anything MPEG-2 can do, VC1 or AVC can do better. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not compared the same title on both formats. So WHY are they persisting with this?
4. Less Blu-ray titles rely on plain Dolby Digital sound. DD on a Blu-ray title is ridiculous. The Dolby Digital Plus or True-HD tracks on the same title on HDDVD are easily audibly better. More uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD please! And what happened to 7.1 ?

I agree the format wars is way over blown
and what happened to 7.1 audio? when all dvds are done 5.1

then there is VMD dvds that suppose to be coming out
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/26/hd-dvd-blu-ray-and-dvd-all-in-one-disc-draws-closer/

03-20-2007, 05:38 AM	#1
Electric_Haggis Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3	"Format War" vastly exaggerated ? The whole "format war" is WAY overhyped, and now with the inevitable success of the PS3, it's getting downright silly. Obviously Blu-ray will be around forever, but unless something completely unexpected happens, so will HDDVD. Blu-ray was pretty much the underdog until the PS3 appeared. But both formats are receiving enough support from suppliers and consumers to stay strong and coexist until dual-format players render the whole "war" irrelevant (or even if they don't!). Eventually it'll be just like DOLBY vs DTS, SACD vs DVD-A, DVD -R vs +R, PC vs MAC, PLAYSTATION vs XBOX vs NINTENDO, etc, etc... There's no reason to "wait until the format war ends and a victor emerges" because ONE won't, so it's bizarre that responsible sections of the media are pushing this view! I have an XBox 360 HDDVD drive ($200), which I use with a home theatre PC and a 720p projector. It's TERRIFIC. My favourite titles (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, King Kong, Backdraft), are yet to appear on Blu-Ray. On the other hand, there are a handful of titles (like Casino Royale, Spiderman) that will never appear on HDDVD. Eventually I'll buy a Blu-ray drive when... 1. The prices come down to sensible levels (when???) 2. More killer Blu-ray titles make the purchase irresistible. 3. Less Blu-ray titles rely on outdated MPEG-2 video. Come on guys! When we're spending this much on a Blu-ray player, don't keep short-changing us! Anything MPEG-2 can do, VC1 or AVC can do better. Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not compared the same title on both formats. So WHY are they persisting with this? 4. Less Blu-ray titles rely on plain Dolby Digital sound. DD on a Blu-ray title is ridiculous. The Dolby Digital Plus or True-HD tracks on the same title on HDDVD are easily audibly better. More uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD please! And what happened to 7.1 ?

03-21-2007, 01:04 PM	#19
Electric_Haggis Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3	To the writers of the last few posts, THANK YOU for being level-headed and lucid in your arguments, and SORRY if I seemed to be starting this thread on the wrong note. By the way, see here for a list of some HD-DVD Dolby Digital Plus bit-rates. They start at 640kbps, and go up to 2Mbps... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=822245 Cheers. Last edited by Electric_Haggis; 03-26-2007 at 06:30 AM.

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03-20-2007, 05:54 AM	#2
Maximus Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Nov 2006	I seem to be asking this to more and more people these days; why are you here?

03-20-2007, 06:07 AM	#3
Electric_Haggis Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3	Perhaps you hadn't noticed that I'm not biased either way. In time, I'll happily own both formats. I'm just saying it like I see it. Surely you'd agree with points 3 and 4 at least?

03-20-2007, 10:34 AM	#6
Electric_Haggis Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3	Maxpower1987, somehow I'm getting the impression you're a Blu-ray-ONLY kinda guy. 1. If anything, I'm a home theatre PC kinda guy. I'll get a PS3 when they can output 24p, have enough decent games and don't cost so goddamn much (in Australia, they're AU$1000). 3 & 4. You're right. PCM does rock (and no licensing fees either). DTS-HD and True-HD are pretty redundant if PCM does the same or better job, and you're right about the major studios opting for the better codecs. But this far down the line, we shouldn't STILL be getting fairly major titles with MPEG2 and/or vanilla Dolby Digital, (Aeon Flux, World Trade Centre, Superman Returns, Babel, etc. ). Bottom line: I'm not pushing HDDVD over Blu-ray. Almost definitely, I (we?) will end up with both. It's just that if we buy a title on either HD format, it's likely to be the last incarnation of that film for a VERY long time. I just want Blu-ray to be the best it can be, especially for the sake of the titles that are exclusive to it.....

03-20-2007, 11:47 AM	#7
Scorxpion Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Middle East,Lebanon Blu-ray collection:57	Hey for the guy who is sticking only for HD_DVD.. First about MPEG2 decoding i challenge you if you have watched A BD using this codec,because if you are then you will never say VC1 is better than MPEG2 only for some title where mpeg2 has been used incorrectly or not optimised all this is due to technical problems Did you watched Tears of sun Black hawk dawn,Kingdom of heaven and Crank BIG FISH lately and sure you would notice how MPEG2 is wonderful Anyway from the begining HD_DVD fans keep saying VC-1 is better than MPEG2 and you are commenting and using this statement. PS3 even if it has 24 capability Are you sure you have a TV capable of 1080p/24, Because as i know there exists only 4 brands using this feature and costing too much than a standard 1080p/60 So how are you using your XBOX 360 with 1080p/24

03-20-2007, 12:25 PM	#8
Blue Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Jan 2005 Location:Melbourne Australia Blu-ray collection:206	I think we can slow this thread right down. From experience I know where this thread is heading - to a place where we don't allow threads to go. Electric_Haggis I would suggest you have a look at a few of Maxpower's posts before you start making silly assertions. Also if you make silly uninformed comments such as your points 3 & 4 what do you expect. You may also like to add you didn't wander down to you local Walmart one Saturday arvo to pick your HD-DVD add on. You either A. Flew to another country to get it. B. Got someone else in another country to fly in with it. C. Got it shipped (air or sea). D. Have access to pre release units. As it's not released in Oz until the 29th March (where your posts here popped out from). Does it get power from the XBOX or automatically handle 240v, or do you need some sort of voltage conversion to power it? Sorry I haven't seen one yet, I had a look in at JB HiFi and EB games and Dick Smith a few days ago, none had any demo units.

03-20-2007, 01:06 PM	#9
Shin-Ra Super Moderator Top contributor Member since:Feb 2007 Blu-ray collection:5 Trading Score:1	It has another messy power brick, no idea if it's 110-240v universal though.

03-20-2007, 04:41 PM	#11
calcajun Active Member Member since:Feb 2007	720P is like, sooooooo yesterday.

03-20-2007, 04:48 PM	#12
Gremal Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Feb 2007 Location:Daddyland Home Theater Gallery:49 Blu-ray collection:184	The only worthwhile point is that the "war" is overhyped. I totally agree. The real war is with standard DVD. It is similar to SACD vs DVD-A, both of which "lost" to standard CD before they could have a chance to compete directly. And no one is forcing anyone to adopt BD, last time I checked. So coming to this forum and making up bogus excuses for adopting HD-DVD and not BD is pretty much a troll. I could have bought a 360 and done the same thing. I and many others chose to wait for the PS3 instead and we spent the same on that what haggis spent on his 360+HD-DVD drive.

03-21-2007, 09:59 AM	#15
Electric_Haggis Member Member since:Mar 2007 Home Theater Gallery:13 Blu-ray collection:2 Blu-ray reviews: 3	Wow. This was my first post on blu-ray.com, and I'm stunned at how much aggro this post generated. I had to look up "troll" to see what it meant - and no, I'm not here for that. Once again, can't you see that I'm NOT pushing HD-DVD over Blu-ray, but rather suggesting that the format war is over-hyped and that the two formats are likely to coexist unless anything particularly supernatural happens? Make no mistake - I am a future Blu-ray owner. I TOO want all future blu-ray-exclusive titles to be have the BEST POSSIBLE picture and sound. That's that. This other blu-ray.com thread shows that a lot of blu-ray titles feature MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital (albeit at 640 kbs, which is a marginal improvement).... https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338 Blu-ray and HD-DVD both need to be as future-proof as possible. It's irrelevant if one's subjective experience of a certain disc is that it looks "wonderful" in MPEG-2. The point is that - all other factors being equal - it will stand to look BETTER in VC-1 or AVC. No debate, surely? Put it another way. When we buy, say, "Momento" (MPEG-2, 18mbps), or "Million Dollar Baby" (AC-3 640kps), it's for keeps. These will likely be the last versions released and the last versions we buy for a VERY long time. In all probability, we'll still be running these discs on our LED/DLP/SXRD 1080p projectors (or whatever) in 2015. So isn't it a shame if that one and only release falls noticably short of the mark, be it now or then? Don't you think EVERY title should feature VC1 or AVC with the highest bitrates possible, and uncompressed PCM audio ? THAT'S the point I'm making.

03-21-2007, 10:32 AM	#16
Scorxpion Blu-ray Guru Member since:Dec 2006 Location:Middle East,Lebanon Blu-ray collection:57	Now i will give you an example if Superman Returns its done in MPEG2 using the maximum bitrate the Blu-ray Disc will look outstanding.You are saying BD if its done in MPEG2 meaning its worthless this is not true at all.. Have you watch lately FOX titles done in MPEG2 except for planet of Apes and judge by urself if its better or not than VC-1 ,,Even i recommend you to have a look on recent titles done in MPEG2 like big fish,Layer cake,gridrion gang ect.............and they are looking fabulous and i dont think so if it is done in VC-1 will look better than they are or they will look softer more than real Now have a look on rocky whic using 40mbs bit rate ,,,do you think HD-DVD is capable of maximising their bit rate Like BD .......So who is better ......

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