Should I buy the Sony 5000ES or Denon 3800?

[BigMel]

First, I love this site! You guys rock!!!

I have the Sony BDP 500S and want to upgrade. I have a Denon 4308CI receiver, PS3, Toshiba HD35, Sharp 12000U projector, 110 inch screen, B&W 7.2 speaker set up,etc and want to take my blu-ray experience to higher level. I was going to get Sony 550 but all this talk about HDMA being in question is frustrating so I have decided to go for the gusto. So, for those who have real knowledge of the nuances of this units (chips, processors,etc)> help me make a decision. Sony 5000ES or Denon 3800, BDPs respectively?

[sokrman14]

I would actually look at the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD (due ou this fall/winter) if you are looking for the absolute best. It should blow both of those out of the water.

[BigMel]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

I would actually look at the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD (due ou this fall/winter) if you are looking for the absolute best. It should blow both of those out of the water.

I have heard about this one as well but was not sure of Pioneer has dedicated itself as much as Sony, Panasonic and Denon has to Blu-Ray...but I will take into consideration.. I am definetly not going to pull the trigger on either until I take a look at the Elite. If this player shares any technolgy with the Kuro it should rock. I hope it has wireless connectivity built in-NOW that would be a killer player.....we will see...thanks

[gekke henkie]

I agree with sokrman14. Although the Pioneer will not have wireless (AFAIK), it does have 2 HDMI outputs, so you can use all the bandwith of 1 port for the audio only and again the same full HDMI-bandwith for video only on the other output.

If you like to read > 1,000 posts on that player, look here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054544

[garak]

Originally Posted by BigMel

First, I love this site! You guys rock!!!

I have the Sony BDP 500S and want to upgrade. I have a Denon 4308CI receiver, PS3, Toshiba HD35, Sharp 12000U projector, 110 inch screen, B&W 7.2 speaker set up,etc and want to take my blu-ray experience to higher level. I was going to get Sony 550 but all this talk about HDMA being in question is frustrating so I have decided to go for the gusto. So, for those who have real knowledge of the nuances of this units (chips, processors,etc)> help me make a decision. Sony 5000ES or Denon 3800, BDPs respectively?

BigMel, nice setup - I love those B&Ws also.

I know the 550 may no longer be in the picture for you, but I have one and it does in fact decode dts-HD MA. However, since you have the Denon 4308, that should be a non-issue, as you can simply bitstream all audio to the processor, and the processor will do all of the decoding.

Between the Sony 5000ES and Denon 3800, I'm assuming that PQ is the foremost concern here (AQ should be identical as you will be using the player as a transport only). The Denon does have the Realta chip for video processing, which is supposed to be the best on the market, afaik. Until we get some reviews of the Sony, we won't really know how it performs in terms of video processing.

However, the Denon is only profile 1.1, while the Sony is profile 2.0. I'm not sure if that's important to you, but it's something to consider.

A couple of other options you might consider:

1. I have heard from my dealer that Denon does have a player in the works that will be profile 2.0 and support SACD/DVD-A (however at a higher price point $3000-4000). This player should be out in the spring, if what he told me is correct.

2. Oppo has a blu ray player in the works that will be profile 2.0, support SACD, and have the Anchor Bay chip for video processing. This player should be in the $500-700 range. Based on their previous products, this should be the best value by far. I'm betting that the performance will be equal to that of the 5000ES and 3800, but at 1/3 the price.

[BigMel]

Originally Posted by garak

BigMel, nice setup - I love those B&Ws also.

I know the 550 may no longer be in the picture for you, but I have one and it does in fact decode dts-HD MA. However, since you have the Denon 4308, that should be a non-issue, as you can simply bitstream all audio to the processor, and the processor will do all of the decoding.

Between the Sony 5000ES and Denon 3800, I'm assuming that PQ is the foremost concern here (AQ should be identical as you will be using the player as a transport only). The Denon does have the Realta chip for video processing, which is supposed to be the best on the market, afaik. Until we get some reviews of the Sony, we won't really know how it performs in terms of video processing.

However, the Denon is only profile 1.1, while the Sony is profile 2.0. I'm not sure if that's important to you, but it's something to consider.

A couple of other options you might consider:

1. I have heard from my dealer that Denon does have a player in the works that will be profile 2.0 and support SACD/DVD-A (however at a higher price point $3000-4000). This player should be out in the spring, if what he told me is correct.

2. Oppo has a blu ray player in the works that will be profile 2.0, support SACD, and have the Anchor Bay chip for video processing. This player should be in the $500-700 range. Based on their previous products, this should be the best value by far. I'm betting that the performance will be equal to that of the 5000ES and 3800, but at 1/3 the price.

Thanks for the input, I do value the 2.0 versus the 1.1, especially at these price points..the oppo sounds good-i have heard a lot about their upscaling so I anticipate a great player. Well, I guess my Black Friday will be a little less exciting....

You are correct BW are great!! I also have 5.1 in-wall set up in my family room...I am actually afraid to buy another brand because of the great quality I get from all my B&W's........

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

I would actually look at the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD (due ou this fall/winter) if you are looking for the absolute best. It should blow both of those out of the water.

I doubt very much that the pioneer would blow "denon"out of the water ! i own the denon 2500 transport & its the dogs b******s !! the best ive ever seen & heard. Have u actually seen a denon up & running in order to pass judgement?? my guess is you havnt or you wouldnt come to that "possible" conclusion. I think IMO denons going to be the leaders & ones to beat!

[darkpoet25]

Originally Posted by BigMel

First, I love this site! You guys rock!!!

I have the Sony BDP 500S and want to upgrade. I have a Denon 4308CI receiver, PS3, Toshiba HD35, Sharp 12000U projector, 110 inch screen, B&W 7.2 speaker set up,etc and want to take my blu-ray experience to higher level. I was going to get Sony 550 but all this talk about HDMA being in question is frustrating so I have decided to go for the gusto. So, for those who have real knowledge of the nuances of this units (chips, processors,etc)> help me make a decision. Sony 5000ES or Denon 3800, BDPs respectively?

Not sure if they have reviews yet, but try looking up www.soundandvisionmag.com. They tend to have spot on reviews, as well as a forum. By the way, I am in complete jelousy of your set up!

[BigMel]

Originally Posted by darkpoet25

Not sure if they have reviews yet, but try looking up www.soundandvisionmag.com. They tend to have spot on reviews, as well as a forum. By the way, I am in complete jelousy of your set up!

Thanks Cliff, Yeah, I get SV. I just read a review of the Panny but I suspect the 5000ES and Elite will get reviewed in early 2009. This is a pretty expensive (relatively speaking) purchase so I really want to do homework... I really love Sony but am ticked off with the 550. I know I do not even need the internal decoding-it is just principle. The Denon 3800 sounds good but it is only 1.1-ridiculous... I just want it all in one player and be done with it...we will see...I can guarantee these products..5000ES, the new Pioneer Elite will not be a part of the door busters craze.....

[darkpoet25]

Originally Posted by BigMel

Thanks Cliff, Yeah, I get SV. I just read a review of the Panny but I suspect the 5000ES and Elite will get reviewed in early 2009. This is a pretty expensive (relatively speaking) purchase so I really want to do homework... I really love Sony but am ticked off with the 550. I know I do not even need the internal decoding-it is just principle. The Denon 3800 sounds good but it is only 1.1-ridiculous... I just want it all in one player and be done with it...we will see...I can guarantee these products..5000ES, the new Pioneer Elite will not be a part of the door busters craze.....

I'm the same way. With anything I get, I always make sure to research everything I can before deciding what to buy.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

I doubt very much that the pioneer would blow "denon"out of the water ! i own the denon 2500 transport & its the dogs b******s !! the best ive ever seen & heard. Have u actually seen a denon up & running in order to pass judgement?? my guess is you havnt or you wouldnt come to that "possible" conclusion. I think IMO denons going to be the leaders & ones to beat!

Actually I have sold them buddy. I have not compared that exact model to the Denon 3800, but the specs on the pioneer are more impressive than the Denon. Everyone can think what they want, but that Pioneer BDP-09FD will be a force to be reckoned with until Denon comes out with something that can beat it. Audio and video specs, loading times, and the fact that is profile 2.0 are all better on the Pioneer than the Denon.

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by BigMel

I have heard about this one as well but was not sure of Pioneer has dedicated itself as much as Sony, Panasonic and Denon has to Blu-Ray...but I will take into consideration.. I am definetly not going to pull the trigger on either until I take a look at the Elite. If this player shares any technolgy with the Kuro it should rock. I hope it has wireless connectivity built in-NOW that would be a killer player.....we will see...thanks

They have a lot invested into Bluray, more than Denon, but not as much as Sony or Panasonic. They are already on their 5th or 6th model, while Denon has come out with now 3. Pioneer had one of the first high-end released.

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

Actually I have sold them buddy. I have not compared that exact model to the Denon 3800, but the specs on the pioneer are more impressive than the Denon. Everyone can think what they want, but that Pioneer BDP-09FD will be a force to be reckoned with until Denon comes out with something that can beat it. Audio and video specs, loading times, and the fact that is profile 2.0 are all better on the Pioneer than the Denon.

Then you of all people should know that you dont go by spec alone... buddy! I just hope this 2nd batch of pioneers are better than the 1st? as i recently owned the pioneer LX70A player & it took forever to load, always crashing sometimes it wouldnt even eject & the "spec " on that was very good on paper. Mind you id like to think the new pioneers will do the job as i hope pioneer have got it right this time? But?? i still dont believe they will blow denon out , maybe shoulder to shoulder at best.

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

They have a lot invested into Bluray, more than Denon, but not as much as Sony or Panasonic. They are already on their 5th or 6th model, while Denon has come out with now 3. Pioneer had one of the first high-end released.

Denon only needed to bring 1 out, as there 1st stab at bluray was spot on !

[Nooff]

Seriously, I wouldn't go for the Pio whatsoever! I gave them a chance by buying two of their new players and they blew it!

That so called pio flagship isn't going to blow the PS3 out of the water if it's based on the same tech as the 51FD and 05. I mean those players are SLOW, they have contrast issues, the layer change is bad, the opperation is very very slow (push the skip button and it will go to the next scene in like 5 seconds) and not to speak of the DTS HD-MA update still not being ready.

Pioneer had their chance getting it right from the beginning but they decided to screw the consumer and pushed their (far from being ready) player with incomplete spec to the market. They should have had a 2.0 player by now (I don't care if people use it or not) and they should be embarrased for not providing DTS HD-MA out of the box!

I would buy a Sony S350 or 550 over the Pioneers anytime!

Personally I would go with the Sony 5000ES for being the fastest "High-End" blu-ray player on the market. It is the only High-End player providing all that blu-ray has to offer a.t.m. and it has very good built quality like the Denon 3800. I mean I like both, but I prefer fast loading times and a more complete spec over an HQV Realta chip anyday.

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by Nooff

Seriously, I wouldn't go for the Pio whatsoever! I gave them a chance by buying two of their new players and they blew it!

That so called pio flagship isn't going to blow the PS3 out of the water if it's based on the same tech as the 51FD and 05. I mean those players are SLOW, they have contrast issues, the layer change is bad, the opperation is very very slow (push the skip button and it will go to the next scene in like 5 seconds) and not to speak of the DTS HD-MA update still not being ready.

Pioneer had their chance getting it right from the beginning but they decided to screw the consumer and pushed their (far from being ready) player with incomplete spec to the market. They should have had a 2.0 player by now (I don't care if people use it or not) and they should be embarrased for not providing DTS HD-MA out of the box!

I would buy a Sony S350 or 550 over the Pioneers anytime!

Personally I would go with the Sony 5000ES for being the fastest "High-End" blu-ray player on the market. It is the only High-End player providing all that blu-ray has to offer a.t.m. and it has very good built quality like the Denon 3800. I mean I like both, but I prefer fast loading times and a more complete spec over an HQV Realta chip anyday.

Everything youve just said nooff ill 2nd that !!

[sokrman14]

Originally Posted by Jase Fox

Denon only needed to bring 1 out, as there 1st stab at bluray was spot on !

There first stab at bluray was a re-boxed Panasonic DMPBD30 which they charged double for.

[Nooff]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

There first stab at bluray was a re-boxed Panasonic DMPBD30 which they charged double for.

Exactly!

The 2500 might be a very good player, but is it worth $800 or as they changed the MSRP to $599 is it? I say a big NO!

The player virtually does nothing else but give you a picture and anything else is done out of the box. Denon makes good stuff, but they are using their past to justify their pricetags, which I think are ridiculous! Same reason why I recommend people to buy an Onkyo Receiver instead.

[Jase Fox]

Originally Posted by sokrman14

There first stab at bluray was a re-boxed Panasonic DMPBD30 which they charged double for.

Absolute rubbish!! the panny 30 is a good machine but no way is the denon a re boxed one lol i think you just wanna believe that so you can talk yourselves out of spending more cash, i work in a hifi store & ive used just about every player thats come out & the denon is an awesome machine the best theres ever been !! have you actually used the 2500?? if so, you must have shocking eye sight, ive heard it all now

[sokrman14]

I had a conversation about it with our Denon rep. It is the same bluray drive as the panasonic, then surrounded with a few denon parts such as a power supply, chassis, and obviously no Audio or Video processors because it is simply a transport. I own Denon products, I love them, but this product was "practically" a rebadged panasonic unit straight from my rep. This new pioneer has been completely rebuilt. Of course no one has seen it yet to compare it to the Denon because the pioneer hasnt been released yet. But when it is released I honestly think it will outperform the Denon. My message to the OP is to consider it and wait for it before you make a decision, that is simply all I was implying. And its not like I don't mind spending the money for things I like. Look at my setup, I've spent nearly as much as you. I am just telling you the truth from what the rep told me. No need to get punchy or defensive.