Noob-style question regarding lossless audio

[hourglass]

I have a Sony BDP-S301 connected to a Denon AVR-2105 Receiver.

The receiver is older and doesn't know anything about HDMI. I can plug into it digitally (coax or optical) or via the 5.1 analog inputs.

My questions are thus:

If I throw in a movie and select the PCM-Uncompressed soundtrack, what is being sent to the Denon? I'm pretty sure the uncompressed audio is going over the analog connection, but is it also possible for this to go through the TosLink cable?

How about for TrueHD? I assume I'm getting 5.1 uncompressed on the analog inputs and a standard dolby digital stream over the digital cable. However, on the receiver when playing back a TrueHD soudntrack via the optical input, the display shows Dolby Digital EX.

If it's really putting out an EX core, am I losing my surround back channel when I'm going analog?

Finally - how does it handle DTS-HDMA? I know the player doesn't fully decode it - it only pulls out the core. Which connection should be giving me the best audio here? I'm actually hard-pressed to hear much difference between the digital and the analog here. If anything, my ears tell me the DA converter in the Denon is probably doing a better job than the one in the Sony.

I guess what I'm really trying to decide is how much longer I can get away with using this receiver. A lot of the newer players don't have analog outputs, so if I get a new one I want to know how much the loss of the analog outputs is going to hurt me.

Thanks for any advice!

ryan

[kpkelley]

You can stay with that receiver for as long as you want, the issue is more directly the player.

They player cannot bitstream either of the two hd audio codecs over hdmi. It can decode Dolby TrueHD into PCM over hdmi or analog. It cannot decode DTS-HD MA at all, instead utilizing the DTS core within.

PCM can be sent over optical/coaxial, but only two channels.

For the best results for your current set-up you should use the analog outputs on the player. This will give you hd audio for any PCM or Dolby TrueHD tracks, but limit you to lossy on any disc without either of those.

If you want to upgrade to full hd audio I would suggest getting a new player like the Panasonic DMP-BD55 or Sony S550 which can decode both interally send them out their analog outputs.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by hourglass

If I throw in a movie and select the PCM-Uncompressed soundtrack, what is being sent to the Denon? I'm pretty sure the uncompressed audio is going over the analog connection, but is it also possible for this to go through the TosLink cable?

I'm not familiar with the S301 setups, but if you have it properly configured, it will convert the PCM to analog and send all six to eight channels to your receiver over the analog cables. With toslink and an uncompressed PCM track, you will only get a 2 channel downmix. It's lossless, but not multichannel. You should play a DD or DTS track instead, if there is one on the disc, in order to get surround sound.

How about for TrueHD? I assume I'm getting 5.1 uncompressed on the analog inputs and a standard dolby digital stream over the digital cable. However, on the receiver when playing back a TrueHD soudntrack via the optical input, the display shows Dolby Digital EX.

If it's really putting out an EX core, am I losing my surround back channel when I'm going analog?

The S301 decodes TrueHD and, if you are set up properly, you will get the lossless track converted to analog over the external inputs.

The player will send a lossy DD track instead of the TrueHD one over optical. I am surprised to see your AVR reports an EX version. But, if it does, then your receiver will process it accordingly.

Here's what happens with the back channel(s) and analog:
If you configure your player for 7.1, it will output any uncompressed 7.1 discs as 7.1 and any TrueHD 7.1 discs as 7.1. There are a few uncompressed 7.1 releases and no TrueHD 7.1 discs on the market. So, this won't come up very often. If you have a 7.1 system, then you are fine. If you are set up for 6.1, your receiver can't downmix 7.1 analog sources to 6.1 because the mixing has to happen while the audio is still digital. So, you'll lose a channel, which might sound odd for discete 7.1 soundtracks. I'd suggest a 5.1 player configuration instead of 7.1 in that case.

The big drawback to analog with a 6.1 or 7.1 system is that you cannot apply a DSP like PLIIx or DD-EX to analog 5.1 sources. So, your back speaker(s) will be silent most of the time.

Finally - how does it handle DTS-HDMA? I know the player doesn't fully decode it - it only pulls out the core. Which connection should be giving me the best audio here? I'm actually hard-pressed to hear much difference between the digital and the analog here. If anything, my ears tell me the DA converter in the Denon is probably doing a better job than the one in the Sony.

You're better of with an optical connection here. The Denon is probably better for processing and DAC. You can also use a DSP for the rears that way.

I guess what I'm really trying to decide is how much longer I can get away with using this receiver. A lot of the newer players don't have analog outputs, so if I get a new one I want to know how much the loss of the analog outputs is going to hurt me.

A newer player like the BD55 or S550 would get you dts-MA decoding as well.

But, the audio quality of lossy DD and DTS on Blu-ray rivals what you get from lossless. Those tracks can be encoded at higher bitrates because of the larger Blu-ray discs and they sound great.

[hourglass]

First - thanks a ton for all of that info. It's good to know I was on the right track for the most part, and you certainly filled in any gaps where I wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by BIslander

I'm not familiar with the S301 setups,

The S301 is the same as the S300, just rebadged for Costco. I'm pretty sure I have the audio settings configured to get the right stuff out of the Analog outs. I don't have any of the digital outs configured for PCM because I know that downmixes to 2-channel.

I'm thinking my best option is to continue what I've been doing - using the analog for most things and switching to the optical input for DTS-MA stuff.

Thanks again!

Ryan