Is this article true? Meaning even though my tv is displaying at 1080/60p does it look the same as 1080p would? My tv is the toshiba 62HM196.
Also is there a difference between 1080/60i and just 1080i? Because when the player is set to "source direct", it shows as 1080/60i, but if i set it to 1080i, it shows up as 1080i...
"There has been a lot of concern and confusion over the difference between 1080i and 1080p. This stems from the inability of many TVs to accept 1080p. To make matters worse, the help lines at many of the TV manufacturers (that means you, Sony), are telling people that their newly-bought 1080p displays are really 1080i. They are idiots, so let me say this in big bold print, as far as movies are concerned THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1080i AND 1080p. See, I did it in caps too, so it must be true. Let me explain (if your eyes glaze over, the short version is at the end).
For clarification, let me start by saying that there are essentially no 1080i TVs anymore. Unless you bought a CRT based TV, every modern TV is progressive scan (as in LCD, Plasma, LCOS, DLP). They are incapable of displaying a 1080i signal as 1080i. So what we’re talking about here mostly applies to people with 1080p native displays.
Movies and almost all TV shows are shot at 24 frames-per-second (either on film or on 24fps HD cameras). All TVs have a refresh rate of 60Hz. What this means is that the screen refreshes 60 times a second. In order to display something that is 24fps on something that is essentially 60fps, you need to make up, or create new frames. This is done using a method called 3:2 pulldown (or more accurately 2:3 pulldown). The first frame of film is doubled, the second frame of film is tripled, the third frame of film is doubled and so on, creating a 2,3,2,3,2,3,2 sequence. It basically looks like this: 1a,1b,2a,2b,2c,3a,3b,4a… Each number is the original film frame. This lovely piece of math allows the 24fps film to be converted to be displayed on 60Hz products (nearly every TV in the US, ever).
This can be done in a number of places. With DVDs, it was all done in the player. With HD DVD, it is done in the player to output 1080i. With Blu-ray, there are a few options. The first player, the Samsung, added the 3:2 to the signal, interlaced it, and then output that (1080i) or de-interlaced the same signal and output that (1080p). In this case, the only difference between 1080i and 1080p is where the de-interlacing is done. If you send 1080i, the TV de-interlaces it to 1080p. If you send your TV the 1080p signal, the player is de-interlacing the signal. As long as your TV is de-interlacing the 1080i correctly, then there is no difference. Check out this article for more info on that.
The next Blu-ray players (from Pioneer and the like) will have an additional option. They will be able to output the 1080p/24 from the disc directly. At first you may think that if your TV doesn't accept 1080p, you'll miss out on being able to see the "unmolested" 1080p/24 from the disc. Well even if your TV could accept the 1080p/24, your TV would still have to add the 3:2 pulldown itself (the TV is still 60Hz). So you're not seeing the 1080p/24 regardless.
The only exception to that rule is if you can change the refresh on the TV. Pioneer's plasmas can be set to refresh at 72 Hz. These will take the 1080p/24, and do a simple 3:3 pull down (repeating each frame 3 times).
Short Version
What this all means is this:
• When it comes to movies (as in HD DVD and Blu-ray) there will be no visible difference between the 1080i signal and the 1080p signal, as long as your TV correctly de-interlaces 1080i. So even if you could input 1080p, you wouldn't see a difference (because there is none).
• There is no additional or new information in a 1080p signal from movie based content.
• The only time you would see a difference is if you have native 1080p/60 content, which at this point would only come from a PC and maybe the PS3. 1080p/60 does have more information than 1080i/30, but unless you're a gamer you will probably never see native 1080p/60 content. It is incredibly unlikely that they will ever broadcast 1080p (too much bandwidth) or that 1080p/60 content will show up on discs (too much storage space and no one is using it to record/film).
So all of you people who bought 1080p displays only to be told by the companies that you had bought 1080i TVs, relax. The TV will convert everything to 1080p. Now if you bought a TV that doesn't de-interlace 1080i correctly, well, that's a whole other story. "
Is this article true? Meaning even though my tv is displaying at 1080/60p does it look the same as 1080p would?
If you are asking whether a picture sent at 1080i will look the same as one sent at 1080p, the answer is yes.
The difference between interlaced and progressive happens in the recording, not the playback. When a 1080p source is interlaced, each frame is cut into two fields, one with the odd lines and the other with the evens. They are sent to the display at twice the speed, where they are recombined into the original frame. As long as the interlacing and deinterlacing work properly, the final output is the same as a 1080p transmission.
Problems crop up when recording something using 1080i, The recorder grabs an interlaced field every 1/60th of a second. When the object being recorded is in motion, the two interlaced fields are not part of the same frame. The even lines are recorded later than the odd ones. When combined, these two fields do not fit together perfectly.
Yes and no. He is absolutely correct in talking about 60hz. Where his logic fails is talking about 1080p and 1080i.
In 1080p each frame of source contains 2073600 pixels of information. In 1080i each frame of the source contains 1036800 pixels of information. In modern TVs the output is always progressive (1080p, 720p, etc) but that is derived from the input either using direct display of the 1080p source, or by deinterlacing the 1080i.
A static 1080i image will look exactly like a static 1080p image, but once you introduce motion, since things can change between frames, the 1080p can look far superior. Both use the 2:3 pulldown the article talks about.
Some TVs and BD players however can display 1080p/24. When this is used not only do you get the best of the motion, but no 2:3 pulldown (in theory). Remember that older tube TVs used AC power to directly run the tube, hence the 60hz (56hz I believe overseas), but modern sets usually use LEDs or LCDs which are driven by DC instead of AC, so there is no "native frequency" to worry about. To be fair, in an LCD the backlight usually is AC while the display portion is DC, confusing eh?
Either way you slice it here is the way it stacks up from best to worst: 1080p/24, 1080p, 1080i/24, 1080i. 1080p and 1080p/60 is the same thing.
The frames are the same. But interlace splits up the frame into two fields consistenting of the odd and even lines.
An interlace display will simply display the transport. But, a progressive panel will have to de-interlace. And that is done with varying degrees of accuracy.
The article is about using 1080i as a transport for delivering 1080p video to the set (i.e. over HDMI). The idea being that since the content is actually progressive the set should be able to recover the progressive frame.
Unfortunately, MANY 1080p sets will throw away the alternate field and line double the single field. This is the so-called "bob" de-interlacing. They, in effect downscale the video to 540p and then reupscale to 1080p, throwing away half the vertical resolution.
And, many sets that can properly de-interlace film source, can't handle video source properly.
The problem with the latter is that interfield motion is possible. The source was scanned in the camera interlaced, and hence between fields there can be movement. That movement has to be taken into effect when de-interlacing ("motion adaptive de-interlacing").
Gary
Last edited by dialog_gvf; 01-04-2009 at 02:52 PM.
A static 1080i image will look exactly like a static 1080p image, but once you introduce motion, since things can change between frames, the 1080p can look far superior. Both use the 2:3 pulldown the article talks about.
Isn't that only true when the source is recorded in 1080i? With a 1080p source such as a Blu-ray disc, the two fields are created from the same frame and are identical regardless of motion.
Just to add my 2 cents there is a difference.If i had to do it over all again my TV would be 1080P.But to each there own
Enjoy what you have
On a 50" or even a 46"...I'd absolutely agree.
In fact, as I'm now used the image of my 42" (720p/1080i) I would buy a 1080p in that size today as well. It gets more difficult to distinquish when you go to any smaller size.
two years ago might as well be 10 years ago when it comes to CE, at the rate the technology is evolving. I'd trash the article and not even bother with trying to interpret it. Which admittedly was confusing as "F" for me and I consider my myself an above average user. Seems the article is overloaded with content for the "beginner" which I would surmise the OP falls into.
Because of noise on the left side of my 40" LCD screen (Sony KDL-40S4100), I had to turn off 1080p/24Hz on my BDP settings which successfully got rid of the noise. My concern was whether that would result in a loss of quality. From reading this thread and others it seems clear that quality is unaffected and that what I'm seeing is 1080p as long as that is what the original source was.
In fact, as I'm now used the image of my 42" (720p/1080i) I would buy a 1080p in that size today as well. It gets more difficult to distinquish when you go to any smaller size.
Point well taken.I should of clarified that i was talking about 50"and over.
My Bad
I gave my son a Samsung 1400 with a 31" RCA LCD TV.
Sh*t it looks as good or not better on his TV then My 50" LOL.
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