Bi-amping

[nothing.sound]

I know there are already threads on bi-amping and such. But there's not alot about physically doiong it. I'm still kind of confused with the amp.

I will be bi-amping my set-up when I construct my theatre in the basement so I'll buy the emotiva amp. But what do I hook into the amp?? My receiver? speakers? sub??

Also if I wanted to add another sub woofer to the mix, do I just hook it into the other input on my receiver>?? Hope someone can kind of clarify bi-amping. Thanks.

One more thing what's a general price on an emotiva amp, i didn't see it on the website. Thanks

[mdabb]

Receiver pre-amp outputs > Y adaptor > Amp inputs > Amp speaker outputs/binding posts) > Speakers

Remove the jumper cables or plates on speakers !!!

[jeff92k7]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Receiver pre-amp outputs > Y adaptor > Amp inputs > Amp speaker outputs/binding posts) > Speakers

Remove the jumper cables or plates on speakers !!!

That's only going to cause them to sound even worse. NEVER, EVER use a "y" adaptor. Use a proper crossover unless your speakers have built in crossover (bandpass) filters inline between the connection plate and the drivers.

Without them, you are going to get nasty comb filtering and some phase issues between the two speaker drivers as they both try to reproduce the same frequencies.

Other than that, the basic signal chain is correct, but realize that you will have two outputs for each channel coming out of your crossover that each will go to separate channels on your amplifiers and will continue to the separate inputs on the speaker cabinets that correspond to each driver.

If your receiver/preamp has a built in crossover, then you should have two (or more) output connectors on it for each speaker (L/C/R) to connect directly to each amplifier input.

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by jeff92k7

That's only going to cause them to sound even worse. NEVER, EVER use a "y" adaptor. Use a proper crossover unless your speakers have built in crossover (bandpass) filters inline between the connection plate and the drivers.

Without them, you are going to get nasty comb filtering and some phase issues between the two speaker drivers as they both try to reproduce the same frequencies.

Other than that, the basic signal chain is correct, but realize that you will have two outputs for each channel coming out of your crossover that each will go to separate channels on your amplifiers and will continue to the separate inputs on the speaker cabinets that correspond to each driver.

If your receiver/preamp has a built in crossover, then you should have two (or more) output connectors on it for each speaker (L/C/R) to connect directly to each amplifier input.

How many people do you know that are going to use an external X-over and bypass the internal passive X-over ??? Not too many I assume.........

I'm thinking the OP is not going all out here. Simple basic bi-amping (assumption)

[jeff92k7]

Originally Posted by mdabb

How many people do you know that are going to use an external X-over and bypass the internal passive X-over ??? Not too many I assume.........

I'm thinking the OP is not going all out here. Simple basic bi-amping (assumption)

I will also admit that the majority of my post was based on the biamp speaker inputs bypassing the internal crossover network. If the internal crossover network (bandpass filters) are still in line in his/her particular speakers, then yes, a "y" cable before the amp inputs would be acceptable for a basic biamp setup (as noted in my first paragraph).

I'll leave the argument about wasting amplifier power on unnecessary frequencies for another time.

[nothing.sound]

well im a freak when it comes to quality and my speakers are all set-up to accept bi amping so I don't want to cheap out. So how do I do it the right way? Like how Jeff92k7 said?

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by nothing.sound

well im a freak when it comes to quality and my speakers are all set-up to accept bi amping so I don't want to cheap out. So how do I do it the right way? Like how Jeff92k7 said?

Unless Jeff wants to walk you through it, I would google it. It involves running each driver individually and running new wires to them and external x-over (taking your speakers apart). Drawing a diagram would explain better but I'm not trying to do a lot of work at the moment and all the info you need is on the web.

To be honest considering the circumstances and the fact every passive three way crossover network on earth will have a good enough low-pass, bandpass, and high-pass cutoffs for the average setup. Simple bi-amping will do.

How much work do you wanna do is up to you, in the end it's not that hard though. The info is out there. Look for differences on passive and active x-over's and then also consider impedance.

[naturephoto1]

A big question for you to consider is, will you hear much if any difference between bi-wiring (particularly with 2 sets of wires) and a passive bi-amping of your speakers? I standardly bi-wire my center and L & R front speakers with 2 sets of cables, but bi-wire my surrounds with a single set of wires (I would suspect that I am using higher end speakers, components, and cables than you are). I use this for both my high end 2 channel and Home Theater set-up.

Rich

[jeff92k7]

Originally Posted by nothing.sound

well im a freak when it comes to quality and my speakers are all set-up to accept bi amping so I don't want to cheap out. So how do I do it the right way? Like how Jeff92k7 said?

Careful. That kind of attitude can be hazardous to your wallet.

First of all, let me preface this by saying I am not a home theater guru...yet. I have worked in the pro audio field for nearly two decades so, while the principles and applications are the same, you will have to do your own research as to what home theater products may work best.

The large format speakers that I have the most experience with have biamp inputs that completely bypass the internal crossover network, thus my original post. In my ignorance, I may have assumed that home theater speakers function the same way when they may not. Your particular speakers may not bypass the internal crossover network when using the biamp inputs in which case this whole explanation will be irrelevant as the internal crossover will not allow you to properly implement an external one.

If you can bypass the internal crossover, great. The next step is to determine from your speaker manufacturer what the frequency range is of each driver in your speaker cabinets. A frequency response chart would be even better. We need to find out what the effective frequency range is to find where the two drivers (assuming a two-way cabinet) overlap. This frequency range is where the crossover point will need to be.

Next you'll need a good external crossover. You can use a simple one like a DBX 223 (http://www.dbxpro.com/223/223.php) or something more expensive but be careful if you decide on a digital crossover as that will add an additional A/D - D/A conversion process (never a good thing) as well as additional latency that will have to be taken into account when setting delay times between each channel in your system (all 5.1 or 7.1 channels). Again, you'll need to research any home theater equivalents. Note: if you do decide on a digital crossover (against my recommendation), pay attention to the sample rate. You don't want a 24 bit 48Khz crossover if you are trying to get the best sound possible from a 24 bit 96khz Dolby TrueHD track.

The outputs of the crossover will then go to the inputs of each amplifier. Typically, you'll want your more powerful amplifiers for your low frequency drivers and a slightly less powerful amplifier for the high frequencies. High frequencies require much less power to reproduce the same volume level. The benefit to this configuration is that each amplifier is only amplifying a certain frequency range and not the entire spectrum. This will cause the amplifier to be slightly more efficient (some would argue that it won't even be noticiable, but I digress).

Each amplifier output will then be connected to the corresponding driver input on each speaker... Left, Low amplifier to the left speaker's woofer; Left, High amplifier to the left speaker's tweeter; etc.

Once it is all connected, then you can either guesstimate a good crossover point to set your crossover to or you can use a measurement system (I.E. SMAART) to measure the speakers and determine the most effective crossover frequency in the range we earlier mentioned. Regarding guesstimation: you don't want the crossover point right in the middle of the typical voice range, etc....you want to try to set it where it will make the least impact on the sound while staying within the overlap range of the individual drivers.

Lastly, slowly increase your amplifier gain until you get a good sound in the volume range you want for the low frequency. Then slowly increase the gain for the high frequency amplifier until it matches. This will best be done with test tones and a REALLY good ear or a measurement program (SMAART). Continue on to the second speaker and repeat.

This is a very quick and dirty overview of how to set up a high quality biamped system but I hope it gives you an idea of how to accomplish it.

Honestly, I don't see too much point to it in a home theater system but I'm sure others will disagree. To me, it's a LOT of work for a marginal quality increase. When I'm at home, I would rather relax and enjoy the movie instead of thinking about how this speaker doesn't sound quite right or that speaker is delayed too much, etc.

[jomari]

got a sticky for you... here

[Big Daddy]

Go to the link that Jomari mentioned and look at Posts #21 and #26. There are helpful diagrams there. I would encourage you not to get involved with external crossovers. Most people do passive bi-amping and use the internal crossovers of the speaker. It is a very simple process. If you don't have any experience with crossovers, you will completely mess up your speaker with external crossovers.

[mrjackolanterns]

where does the left one go and the right on the adapter on a 7 channel amp?

[mrjackolanterns]

To bi-amp the fronts; on the 7 channel amp how do I specifically hook it up step by step if the surround backs will wired to the receiver?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by mrjackolanterns

To bi-amp the fronts; on the 7 channel amp how do I specifically hook it up step by step if the surround backs will wired to the receiver?

I sent you a detailed private message.

[bigpapy]

Originally Posted by mrjackolanterns

To bi-amp the fronts; on the 7 channel amp how do I specifically hook it up step by step if the surround backs will wired to the receiver?

I got the same question Big Daddy.soon I will be upgrading my speakers and the one I want have the Bi amp option.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by bigpapy

I got the same question Big Daddy.soon I will be upgrading my speakers and the one I want have the Bi amp option.

You cannot use 7.1 speakers and bi-amp with the same receiver. If you want to use bi-amping and use 7.1 speakers, you must buy an external two-channel amplifier.

If you want to use your current receiver, then you have to forget about the rear speakers as the receiver's built-in amplifier for the rear channels will be used for bi-amping the front speakers.

In a 7.1 setup and a receiver only, you can only do bi-wiring. The advantage of bi-wiring is minimal.