Let's try this again. Audio in Blu-ray

[concept7man]

Ok I started a thread on this already but things didn't go well. From the start please understand that I am not a professioanl in the field of audio. I am a college student with very little experience. I do not own a Blu-ray player or sound system for my home use. The only experience I have is with our system at school and that is not much. From my research this is what I found out. If my information is incorrect feel free to give me your opinions. Please don't make any disrespectful comments on this thread as I'm sure everyone here wasn't born knowing all about sound technology and you've all been a beginner at one time or another.

Is Blu-ray technology offering more options for sound professionals when it comes to the depth of the sound design in their projects and the quality of special features available? Blu-ray was developed by The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) which is “a group of the world's leading consumer electronics, personal computer and media manufacturers (including Apple, Dell, Hitachi, HP, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson),” according to www.blu-ray.com/info/, the official “source for anything related to Blu-ray disc (BD).” In cd players and DVD players, the information is read from the discs with a red laser. In Blu-ray players the information is obviously read with a blue laser. At first it doesn’t seem to be all that much of a change, but it really is. The wavelength of a red laser is longer (650 nm) in nanometers than the wavelength of a blue laser (405nm). This means that the information on a DVD has to be laid out on the disc on a wider surface to allow for the longer wavelength of the red laser. In Blu-ray discs, the information can be written much smaller allowing for more room on the disc and much more information to be recorded. The difference between the amounts of data available on DVD vs. Blu-ray is about 8G for DVD and 50G for Blu-ray. Recent advances in the technology by Pioneer allow a single Blu-ray disc to store about 500GB of information on 20 layers.
In the movie business when they have the film totally finished and the soundtrack is mastered and everything is done, it is made into a studio master. This is the edition of the movie, both video and audio, that the Director and sound engineers created, exactly as they meant for it to be. It is as clear and perfect as it can get. Now, in DVD there isn’t enough room on the disc to save almost any of this information. These surround-sound files are compressed by what is called lossy compression, meaning that some of the original audio information is lost in the compression process. Blu-ray discs, as I’ve already stated, have much more room for information to be stored, making it possible to compress the audio so it can be stored without losing any audio information along the way. The result is a fuller, richer surround-sound audio image. There are five main soundtrack formats which are readily available for Blu-ray, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution, DTS-HD Master Audio, and Linear PCM. Only in very high-end systems can anyone tell the difference between most of these formats. Dolby TrueHD is the format that is the closest to being identical to the version of the film that the people who made it hear and see when they watch the original studio master.
A movie that on DVD might offer just the deleted scenes and maybe a director’s commentary audio track to listen to while watching the movie now has a menu with a plethora of options from screen in screen documentaries the viewer can watch while the movie is playing to nearly full length documentaries on the making of the film and smaller mini documentaries on the specific aspects of production, such as cinematography and sound design. Blu-ray opens up a whole new world when it comes to added special features. I sometimes think it’s almost to the point where someone could watch a lot of special features now and actually learn from the pros what people used to have to go to school for years to learn.

Sources includes: https://www.blu-ray.com/info/, https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=66681, http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...t%20War&st=cse, http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-6462511-2.html



After posting this last time I got a few questions right away that I wasn't sure how to answer. I don't know what makes Dolby TrueHD better than the rest. That's just what one website I looked at told me and that website didn't go very in-depth on the topic. If anyone else has any ideas about what format is better and why, or about any other formats I may have missed, please let me know.

[Johnny Vinyl]

I'm dizzy!

Can you break up that ONE paragraph a bit?

I'm sure you put a lot of thought into this and we want to be helpful, but please.....we need to be able to read it!

[My_Two_Cents]

Your statement regarding only being able to tell the difference between the audio codecs on "high-end" systems is far from accurate. Any decent audio setup will show the difference between HD and lossy audio.

[concept7man]

I apologize. I'm not an English major, I'm an audio major. I guess I should at least make it a larger point size, huh?

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by concept7man

Dolby TrueHD is the format that is the closest to being identical to the version of the film that the people who made it hear and see when they watch the original studio master.

And this statement is based on what? How does this apply when the audio was mastered in DTS?

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Your statement regarding only being able to tell the difference between the audio codecs on "high-end" systems is far from accurate. Any decent audio setup will show the difference between HD and lossy audio.

Ok, tell me that again like I'm 3 years old. And I'm really sorry but save me the trouble of looking it up and tell me what codecs are. I didn't even know I wrote about them.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by concept7man

I apologize. I'm not an English major, I'm an audio major. I guess I should at least make it a larger point size, huh?

Is ok...neither am I!

John

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

And this statement is based on what? How does this apply when the audio was mastered in DTS?

Again, I'm an idiot and that's what the website I was looking at told me.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by concept7man

I apologize. I'm not an English major, I'm an audio major. I guess I should at least make it a larger point size, huh?

No, it's called using paragraphs to break-up the large amount of information into smaller, more easily read pieces. Large paragraphs are very difficult to read. You learn this in Junior High writing classes.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by concept7man

Again, I'm an idiot and that's what the website I was looking at told me.

Which website? Can you provide a link? I'd just like to read it, is all.

[JasonR]

Losseless audio = Dolby TrueHD = DTS-HDMA = PCM

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

No, it's called using paragraphs to break-up the large amount of information into smaller, more easily read pieces. Large paragraphs are very difficult to read. You learn this in Junior High writing classes.

Are you really serious? I'm here to find out info and discuss RELEVANT topics, not have people tell me what I should have learned about 15 years ago when I was in Junior High School. Oh and the original reason it was written so tightly packed is because I had to hand this in for a grade in my class today and I was trying to conserve paper. I just forgot to fix it before posting it here. Again, SORRY!

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Which website? Can you provide a link? I'd just like to read it, is all.

"DOLBY TrueHD
Dolby TrueHD is a lossless compression codec. Although it is compressed to use less disc space than a PCM track, once decoded it is identical to the original master. Dolby TrueHD supports up to eight full-range channels (with room for expansion) of 24-bit/96 kHz audio (at the discretion of the studio) up to a maximum of 18Mbps bit rate. Support for Dolby TrueHD is optional for Blu-Ray players and mandatory for HD-DVD players."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by concept7man

Are you really serious? I'm here to find out info and discuss RELEVANT topics, not have people tell me what I should have learned about 15 years ago when I was in Junior High School. Oh and the original reason it was written so tightly packed is because I had to hand this in for a grade in my class today and I was trying to conserve paper. I just forgot to fix it before posting it here. Again, SORRY!

Just offering a bit of friendly advice on forum etiquette. No need to get so defensive.

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by concept7man

"DOLBY TrueHD
Dolby TrueHD is a lossless compression codec. Although it is compressed to use less disc space than a PCM track, once decoded it is identical to the original master. Dolby TrueHD supports up to eight full-range channels (with room for expansion) of 24-bit/96 kHz audio (at the discretion of the studio) up to a maximum of 18Mbps bit rate. Support for Dolby TrueHD is optional for Blu-Ray players and mandatory for HD-DVD players."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820

I guess I could have misinterpreted this, and thinking back I probably did. Anyone who can explain how this is different from what I wrote originally please help.

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Just offering a bit of friendly advice on forum etiquette. No need to get so defensive.

Sorry, this is my first day ever writing anything on a message board pretty much and it hasn't gone very well so far. Thanks for any help you can give me.

[JasonR]

Originally Posted by concept7man

I guess I could have misinterpreted this, and thinking back I probably did. Anyone who can explain how this is different from what I wrote originally please help.

Not a misinterpretation, you just didn't finish reading.

Decoded Dolby TrueHD = Decoded DTS HD MA = Uncompressed LPCM

Which means there are three codecs that are closest to the studio master.

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by JasonR

Not a misinterpretation, you just didn't finish reading.



Which means there are three codecs that are closest to the studio master.

Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense now. I wish I had done this before I handed in my paper. Oh well. Now I know.

[Beta Man]

Obviously I can't say definitively one way or another......but given the fact that you have limited access to Blu-ray and its subsequent codecs (by your own admission) I find it rather odd that you attack those who disagree with you in regards to the fact that the differences are only discernable on high-end systems....... You really have not basis for which to make your point.... we're only trying to give you "Real World" test results......

$$ does not equal system capabilities, so shouldn't determine if a system is "Capable" of showing the differences in the new codecs etc..

[concept7man]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

Obviously I can't say definitively one way or another......but given the fact that you have limited access to Blu-ray and its subsequent codecs (by your own admission) I find it rather odd that you attack those who disagree with you in regards to the fact that the differences are only discernable on high-end systems....... You really have not basis for which to make your point.... we're only trying to give you "Real World" test results......

$$ does not equal system capabilities, so shouldn't determine if a system is "Capable" of showing the differences in the new codecs etc..

I understand that and I think we've pretty much covered that I'm retarded and didn't know what I was talking about when I originally wrote this. You need to understand that there are ways of correcting people without making them feel stupid by making stupid comments of your own. I understand that price isn't the main factor that decides how good a sound system is. All I'm saying is that I've only been looking into this for a few weeks and whether a system costs $20,000 or $100,000, chances are it's probably better than anything I've ever heard or probably will hear in the near future, therefore a higher-end system. Maybe I'm wrong and there is someone out there who will pay that much for a system that isn't good, but I've never met anyone that stupid. Thanks for all the great help tonight. Maybe if I want a job selling systems I'll know as much as you some day. I can only dream.