DLP or LCD Technology

[Travis]

Many years ago when I started reading up on home theater, DLP was new and was the best out there. Now, from what I understand the playing field is level. Is it?

"What would you buy, DLP or LCD, and why?" is the question.

If you have no definite answer, fine, can you state why DLP and LCD technologies aren't a factor in buying a projector.

I know many other things will decide what the picture looks like, but for arguement's sake can we talk about LCD and DLP technologies first.

I'm trying to decide what to buy, so far I'm looking at 1080p and around $2,000.

I just want to know what trade-offs will be made by picking one over the other. On a personal note: my LCD TV doesn't do blacks as well as I would like it to, hoping my PJ will be better at it. Do I give up anything to get better blacks, or do both technologies do a good job at it?

I'm a little uncertain about adding this thread because I don't want to open a can of worms (and wind up with a thread like the one about 720p vs 1080p). Please be nice, state your comments and reasons for your beliefs and be tolerant of other views. Also, don't call people names or ridicule them for believing in something else.

[bhampton]

Personally, I wouldn't buy either DLP or LCD. My choice is SXRD (also called LCOS or DiLA.)

I have been using CRT Front Projectors since 1999 but my CRT FP has started to mal-function and I've just ordered a Sony VW60. It's SXRD which is Sony's version of what other brands call LCOS. It's neither DLP or LCD.

I do think that LCD has made gains on DLP but I don't want either of those.

If you're looking for LCD or DLP... Look for a 3 chip version.


-Brian

[Beta Man]

some people experience a "Rainbow affect" with DLP.... I, nor my wife, nor the handful of people who have seen my projector have ever noticed the phenomena... and although I understand it to be rare...... it is in fact a real possibility.

I don't know enough about the different technologies, but as with other displays, they will each have their inherit strengths and weaknesses..... but the best thing to do is compare projector-to-projector, rather than eliminating a particular type completely.

I don't have the best black levels either It's a trade off for having a huge screen for the price of a 32" t.v. for me

[Blove23]

If iI had to chose between the both of them it would depend on price and if I wanted better viewing angles.

DLPs are probably the best bang for your buck, but the viewing angles aren't as good as an LCD. DLP are great for size because you can get a 65 inch or 75 inch pretty inexpensive.

LCDs give a better viewing angle, but there are so many different manufactures and you might lose out on size.

If you could still find a SXRD a rear projection LCD you would be great, but they are extremely hard to find because Sony stopped making them.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Blove23

If iI had to chose between the both of them it would depend on price and if I wanted better viewing angles.

DLPs are probably the best bang for your buck, but the viewing angles aren't as good as an LCD. DLP are great for size because you can get a 65 inch or 75 inch pretty inexpensive.

LCDs give a better viewing angle, but there are so many different manufactures and you might lose out on size.

If you could still find a SXRD a rear projection LCD you would be great, but they are extremely hard to find because Sony stopped making them.

You do realize the OP is asking about projectors? What does viewing angle have to do with that?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

the best thing to do is compare projector-to-projector, rather than eliminating a particular type completely.

I wish I could compare projector-to-projector, but I can't.

A couple months ago I moved from Taipei to a smaller city 3 hours away. There aren't any shops here displaying projectors. They are just in boxes on shelves here. Even in Taipei, the shops that do have proper setups and will display them are few and far between. And usually they will only take the time to show them to you if you swear an oath to spend but from their shop.

Buying blind, just like I did for my speakers and AVR which have made me happy. Hope I can make the same choice on a projector.

[Pelican170]

Plasma..

[kpkelley]

I have to agree with Brian, SXRD FTW.

If you can't afford an SXRD projector, then I would get a DLP. I prefer them to the LCD projectors in terms of image quality, although LCDs have caught up with this last generation. That being said it really depends upon what your set-up is going to be like. How is the projector going to be mounted? What is the throw distance? What size screen do you plan on using? Is audible noise an issue? Interested in any special features, anamorphic compatability, interpolation, etc.?

[pittsgutta]

buy both....

[john_1958]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

some people experience a "Rainbow affect" with DLP.... I, nor my wife, nor the handful of people who have seen my projector have ever noticed the phenomena... and although I understand it to be rare...... it is in fact a real possibility.

I don't know enough about the different technologies, but as with other displays, they will each have their inherit strengths and weaknesses..... but the best thing to do is compare projector-to-projector, rather than eliminating a particular type completely.

I don't have the best black levels either It's a trade off for having a huge screen for the price of a 32" t.v. for me

rainbow effect is also on lcd i know because i saw it when i was watching golf game
but i still perfer dlp

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

Plasma..

Plasma FP ?

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by pittsgutta

buy both....

two projectors? that's not too budget friendly.

[vega2K]

I'm brand new to projectors having just set-up a BenQ W5000 DLP at about 13.5' throw distance projecting onto a 92" high contrast grey screen. I have yet to detect any Rainbow effect and have zero problems with viewing angles. The image is stellar.

The only con I see comes from having a Pioneer Elite 60" Kuro Plasma behind the screen to compare blacks against. The Kuro blacks are as black as they get, while the W5000 has one of the best blacks against the comparables, it doesn't touch the Kuro. But of course we are talking apples and oranges. Projectors will never compare to Plasma blacks. I assume LCD projectors would be even worse when it comes to blacks, Am I wrong?

[Brain Sturgeon]

Okay, off the top of my head regarding LCD, LCOS, DLP:

LCD:

• Transmissive triple panel technology using dichroic mirrors and prism
  
• Poorest black levels of the three technologies, although improving, particularly with the use of dynamic irii.
• Most visible pixel structure of the three, although technology such as Panasonic's Smooth Screen improves some of this.
• Can have "dead" pixel(s)
• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.
• Susceptible to motion blur (depends on how sensitive you are).
• Tend to produce more lumens output than LCOS and single chip DLP (more light efficent with high output Metal Halide lamps): 1000-1500 lumens, although significantly less @ D65 "best viewing mode" at ~500-600 lumens
• Very good color saturation
• Can have very sharp image quality depending on the lens
• Generally the most affordable of the three technologies.
• Non-sealed light path which is susceptible to dust blobs.

LCOS (AKA JVC's D-ILA or Sony's SXRD)

• Reflective three panel technology
  
• Highest native sequential contrast and best pure black level performance (particularly the JVC's, some of which have >30,000:1 native on/off-- Sony's have lower native on/off, but use a dynamic iris to improve this metric)
• Lower ANSI contrast (<300:1)
• Some issues with panel uniformity, although this has improved with advancing technology & manufacturing know-how.
• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.
• Susceptible to motion blur.
• Sometimes described as having a "softer, film-like image", although this is debatable.
• Light output in the 250-700 D65 Lumens range.
• Sealed light path.

DLP

• Reflective Digital Micromirror Devices, single chip or three chip variants.
  
• Mid level sequential contrast between LCD and LCOS. Best in class have 6000-8000:1 native on/off.
• Highest ANSI contrast, thought to be a contributor to "3-D effect"
• Very sharp images
• Less susceptible to motion blur, particularly three chip variants.
• Sealed light path.

Specifics for single chip DLP variants:

• Susceptible to color separation artifacts (aka Rainbow effect-- some are more sensitive to this than others).
• Uses a spinning color wheel which can produce more noise.
• No convergence issues
• Lumens output in the ~250-700 range

Specifics for triple chip DLP variants:

• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.s
• No color separation artifacts
• Very high ANSI contrast (600-1000:1)
• Highest potential light output (>1200 D65 lumens, some up to 5000-6000)
• Extremely expensive

LCD's tend to be the least expensive, but a lower quality build goes along with this. LCOS machines tend to be mid-range in price. DLP machines can run from low cost to extremely expensive, with three chip DLPs typically in the ~$20k and up range. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Three chip DLPs are arguably the pinnacle of quality projected images at this time. For larger home theaters (screens > 12' wide), and commercial theaters, this is pretty much the only choice.

No projector is perfect for everyone-- you just have to find the one that has the least amount of warts given the specifics and limitations (if any) of your theater set-up.

Hope this helps...

[Travis]

Originally Posted by vega2K

I'm brand new to projectors having just set-up a BenQ W5000 DLP at about 13.5' throw distance projecting onto a 92" high contrast grey screen.

Looked at some info on it. Sounds good, W5000 is listed at 88,000 NTD on some websites here(2,600 USD). Have to check it out in stores for a better price.

Originally Posted by bhampton

I've just ordered a Sony VW60. It's SXRD which is Sony's version of what other brands call LCOS.

Sounds good but I think the VW60 is too much $ for me, how much did you pay. Know anything about the HW10?

[GORT]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

Plasma..

Ya I will run right out and get that plasma "Projector"

[bhampton]

Brain,

Terrific information, nice post, thanks.

Travis,

I paid ~$2896 but I bought from a sketchy website and the PJ isn't here yet so....... time will tell.... I'm worried though.. but maybe it's going to be ok.

There are some used ones poping up on VideoGon for about $2500. Also the model before the VW60 comes up in the same price range but the VW60 has some desirable inprovements that can be missed when comparing. The VW60 has a convergence adjustability and can accept anamorphic lens configurations. It also has next gen SXRD chips that everyone agrees were an improvement.

If you buy used you better buy a spare bulb. I think a lot of the ones coming up used are put up because the bulb suddenly dimmed and the people who owned them would rather upgrade then to buy bulbs. (A generalization to be sure but... that's something I think based on the hours of the used ones I see poping up.)

-Brian

[bhampton]

Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject but isn't there a web forum for AV Enthusiasts in Taiwan? I would try to visit some other people HT's if you haven't had a projector before. Most people who build a HT as dying to show it off and you may discover someone looking to upgrade that has used gear for sale.

I can go to Boutique places here and see pj's setup fairly well. Even some big chains like Sound Advice and Best Buy have projectors setup (in the case of Best Buy it's the ones with Magnolia Hi Fi.)

Do you ever come to the US? I bet this stuff is much cheaper here and most of it has auto-sensing power supplies though warranty is lost in such cases.

-Brian

[Disky76]

Originally Posted by Travis

I wish I could compare projector-to-projector, but I can't.

A couple months ago I moved from Taipei to a smaller city 3 hours away. There aren't any shops here displaying projectors. They are just in boxes on shelves here. Even in Taipei, the shops that do have proper setups and will display them are few and far between. And usually they will only take the time to show them to you if you swear an oath to spend but from their shop.

Buying blind, just like I did for my speakers and AVR which have made me happy. Hope I can make the same choice on a projector.

My projector uses DLP technology, and I don't experience the rainbow effect. While its native resolution is 720p, the contrast, brightness, and black levels are excellent, and I believe it can hold its own against some of the 1080 projectors that I have seen out there.

[Disky76]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

Okay, off the top of my head regarding LCD, LCOS, DLP:

LCD:

• Transmissive triple panel technology using dichroic mirrors and prism
  
• Poorest black levels of the three technologies, although improving, particularly with the use of dynamic irii.
• Most visible pixel structure of the three, although technology such as Panasonic's Smooth Screen improves some of this.
• Can have "dead" pixel(s)
• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.
• Susceptible to motion blur (depends on how sensitive you are).
• Tend to produce more lumens output than LCOS and single chip DLP (more light efficent with high output Metal Halide lamps): 1000-1500 lumens, although significantly less @ D65 "best viewing mode" at ~500-600 lumens
• Very good color saturation
• Can have very sharp image quality depending on the lens
• Generally the most affordable of the three technologies.
• Non-sealed light path which is susceptible to dust blobs.

LCOS (AKA JVC's D-ILA or Sony's SXRD)

• Reflective three panel technology
  
• Highest native sequential contrast and best pure black level performance (particularly the JVC's, some of which have >30,000:1 native on/off-- Sony's have lower native on/off, but use a dynamic iris to improve this metric)
• Lower ANSI contrast (<300:1)
• Some issues with panel uniformity, although this has improved with advancing technology & manufacturing know-how.
• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.
• Susceptible to motion blur.
• Sometimes described as having a "softer, film-like image", although this is debatable.
• Light output in the 250-700 D65 Lumens range.
• Sealed light path.

DLP

• Reflective Digital Micromirror Devices, single chip or three chip variants.
  
• Mid level sequential contrast between LCD and LCOS. Best in class have 6000-8000:1 native on/off.
• Highest ANSI contrast, thought to be a contributor to "3-D effect"
• Very sharp images
• Less susceptible to motion blur, particularly three chip variants.
• Sealed light path.

Specifics for single chip DLP variants:

• Susceptible to color separation artifacts (aka Rainbow effect-- some are more sensitive to this than others).
• Uses a spinning color wheel which can produce more noise.
• No convergence issues
• Lumens output in the ~250-700 range

Specifics for triple chip DLP variants:

• As with any multi-panel technology, can have issues with convergence.s
• No color separation artifacts
• Very high ANSI contrast (600-1000:1)
• Highest potential light output (>1200 D65 lumens, some up to 5000-6000)
• Extremely expensive

LCD's tend to be the least expensive, but a lower quality build goes along with this. LCOS machines tend to be mid-range in price. DLP machines can run from low cost to extremely expensive, with three chip DLPs typically in the ~$20k and up range. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Three chip DLPs are arguably the pinnacle of quality projected images at this time. For larger home theaters (screens > 12' wide), and commercial theaters, this is pretty much the only choice.

No projector is perfect for everyone-- you just have to find the one that has the least amount of warts given the specifics and limitations (if any) of your theater set-up.

Hope this helps...

I think my brain just exploded reading all that! LOL