Please help, blown tweeter.

[got rice]

Hey guys,
I was hoping someone could offer some incite on my problem. On one of my main speakers(Paraigm monitor 11) the aluminum dome tweeter is shrivled up(it has to be replaced ). Can anyone tell me what would cause this to happen?

Also I am concerned about the drivers in the woofers as well, How do I check to see if they are working properly?

I did check the back of the reciever and noticed the wire on the rear surround connection was exposed/bare (1/4") from connection.
Thanks

Mod's can one of you move this to the "Speakers" topic. thanks

[Beta Man]

shriveled? maybe it had too much stress and wrinkled due to that..... It was probably pushed too hard.... that's the only thing I can think of....

I've replaced 3 tweeters due to curious kids, and their inability to keep their hands to themselves

[D]

First, do you still have a signal going to the speaker? Hopefully your amp channel is not damaged. If signal is present, and the drivers are producing sound, they might be ok. Without testing it on a scope, you can't be sure about the crossover etc. I would recommend taking it to your dealer to have it checked. Better safe than sorry. Best of luck. Was the speaker wire touching anything?

[got rice]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

shriveled? maybe it had too much stress and wrinkled due to that..... It was probably pushed too hard.... that's the only thing I can think of....

Is -25dB to high for speakers that need to be broken in?

the other speaker and center seem to be fine, can you think of any reason why it would be just one of them?

How can I check if the woofers are damaged?

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by got rice

Is -25dB to high for speakers that need to be broken in?

the other speaker and center seem to be fine, can you think of any reason why it would be just one of them?

How can I check if the woofers are damaged?

Personally I don't believe in break-in and assuming you have them calibrated right -25db shouldn't be too loud at all. Of course, depends on what you're giving them juice with.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by db01

First, do you still have a signal going to the speaker? Hopefully your amp channel is not damaged. If signal is present, and the drivers are producing sound, they might be ok. Without testing it on a scope, you can't be sure about the crossover etc. I would recommend taking it to your dealer to have it checked. Better safe than sorry. Best of luck. Was the speaker wire touching anything?

there is signal running to the speaker, I hooked up a spare (just in case) and it sounded fine. Man as far as the drivers I can a notice a difference in the sound vs the other, but I don't know if it is because of the tweeter. As far as the wire, I'm assuming the wire was touching, not 100% though.

Scope? I have no idea what that is.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by got rice

Scope? I have no idea what that is.

He is referring to an oscilloscope. Here is the wikipedia page about them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope

Blown tweeters do happen. Did you happen to play any exotic sound format? I know playing DTS cds the wrong way had the possibility of tweeter damage. It also can happen for playing music too loud for too long.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Personally I don't believe in break-in and assuming you have them calibrated right -25db shouldn't be too loud at all. Of course, depends on what you're giving them juice with.

Here is my receiver http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...2&CTID=5000300

to be honest with you I haven't calibrated them, the center just came in and I really need to do this, but just been really lazy

[got rice]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

He is referring to an oscilloscope. Here is the wikipedia page about them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope

Blown tweeters do happen. Did you happen to play any exotic sound format? I know playing DTS cds the wrong way had the possibility of tweeter damage. It also can happen for playing music too loud for too long.

Yeah I learned something new today...Olliscopes. I'm assuming the service dealer would have one of these.

I was watching Transporter 3, and noticed it the next day.

[Rob J in WNY]

Got Rice,

That must have been some kind of heat to distort the actual tweeter's titanium radiating surface as described.

Were you playing program material too loudly? Some sound transients in certain movies can push an amplifier playing near peak output go over the edge rather unexpectedly. One notable case is on "The Polar Express" where the radiator in "Hero Boy's" bedroom blows like a train's horn. There are a lot of sudden peaks in "Black Hawk Down" - you get the idea.

You say you haven't gotten to calibrating your speakers. For now, at least, consider setting a crossover point on them (basically by setting their size to "small" in your receiver). This allows bass frequencies beneath your chosen crossover point (say, 80 or 90Hz - you'll be able to choose the frequency) to be directed to your subwoofer. Low frequencies are far and away the most power-consuming, and can bring an amp channel's output to speaker-damaging clipping levels much earlier than if the lowest frequencies are crossed out.

Also, make sure that you are not running undersized wire to your speakers. 16 gauge would be a nice minimum with a system like yours. 14 or 12 would be even better.

Perhaps you can have the tweeter replaced under warranty, assuming your speaker is still under coverage. In some cases, a manufacturer may send you the driver and allow you to install it (you must send them the damaged tweeter). If you are not covered under warranty, Paradigm will certainly allow you to purchase a replacement tweeter unit. A quick call to Paradigm can at least get you started.

[D]

Sorry about the lack of info on the oscilloscope, should have referrenced it better. Paradigm is a great company, and I'm sure they will direct you to the best solution, whether it's replacing the tweeter yourself, or having your dealer take care of it for you. I can only lean towards a short from the speaker wire if it was indeed touching something, because without any callibration, channel levels should have been at 0. -25 volume should not have been enough to take out the tweeter, especially on a surround channel. Best of luck, remember to check your connections, and to callibrate.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by Rob J in WNY

Got Rice,

That must have been some kind of heat to distort the actual tweeter's titanium radiating surface as described.

Were you playing program material too loudly? Some sound transients in certain movies can push an amplifier playing near peak output go over the edge rather unexpectedly. One notable case is on "The Polar Express" where the radiator in "Hero Boy's" bedroom blows like a train's horn. There are a lot of sudden peaks in "Black Hawk Down" - you get the idea.

You say you haven't gotten to calibrating your speakers. For now, at least, consider setting a crossover point on them (basically by setting their size to "small" in your receiver). This allows bass frequencies beneath your chosen crossover point (say, 80 or 90Hz - you'll be able to choose the frequency) to be directed to your subwoofer. Low frequencies are far and away the most power-consuming, and can bring an amp channel's output to speaker-damaging clipping levels much earlier than if the lowest frequencies are crossed out.

Also, make sure that you are not running undersized wire to your speakers. 16 gauge would be a nice minimum with a system like yours. 14 or 12 would be even better.

Perhaps you can have the tweeter replaced under warranty, assuming your speaker is still under coverage. In some cases, a manufacturer may send you the driver and allow you to install it (you must send them the damaged tweeter). If you are not covered under warranty, Paradigm will certainly allow you to purchase a replacement tweeter unit. A quick call to Paradigm can at least get you started.

Rob,
From the looks of it, i may have pushed the speakers a little harder than I should have. I was reading in another forum and it mentioned Transporter 3 runs +6dB "hot", so I'm guessing this may have the case. I hope this isn't the reason, cause I was just breaking them in when this happened.

As far as the crossover settings and speaker wire guage, everything is on point.

These were purchased on Audiogon so there isn't a warranty. I will call Paradigm tommorow to see what they have to say. Hopefully the only damage is to the tweeter. I can live with that. I'll keep you posted.

[got rice]

Originally Posted by db01

Sorry about the lack of info on the oscilloscope, should have referrenced it better. Paradigm is a great company, and I'm sure they will direct you to the best solution, whether it's replacing the tweeter yourself, or having your dealer take care of it for you. I can only lean towards a short from the speaker wire if it was indeed touching something, because without any callibration, channel levels should have been at 0. -25 volume should not have been enough to take out the tweeter, especially on a surround channel. Best of luck, remember to check your connections, and to callibrate.

Hey no worries on the scope thing, you were offering help and I appreciate that. I guess the best thing is to contact Paradigm and see what they have to say.
Yeah I'm leaning towards the bare wire causing the problem. Hopefully this is a non issue, I really like the setup. I'm not giving up on Paradigm, just want to identify the problem so this won't happen again.

[D]

I'm sure they will take care of you, sorry for your situation, at least your amp seems to be ok. Best wishes.

[got rice]

Hey, I finally got a chance to speak with 2 Paradigm reps. Both were very consistent in what they had to say and did offer similar scenarios in which the tweeter may have been damaged.

It was explained that it is "highly unlikely" but not imposible for the tweeter to cave in and shrivel up due to clipping, too much power(from my receiver), or the bare wire touching. What would be possible from these circumstances is the voice coil would be damaged, the center of the "ferro cooled dome" would have and outward burst vs. inward as I described, or as Betaman suggested fingers.

After speaking to them about what type of receiver I have and the volume level at which it was running, both reps reassured me that there should not be any driver damage. They did suggest to replace the tweeter and that my "ears" would be able to tell if there is any other damage to the speaker.
So a new tweeter is $60.00 plus shipping, which is not bad at all considerig the deal I got on Audiogon. Once I receive the tweeter Paradigm will instruct me on how to replace it over the phone. I am happy with their knowlege, professionalism, and most of all how the situation was handled. Top notch service.

p.s. I want to thank everyone who offered their incite to the matter. Thanks.

[aramis109]

Nice. That's not bad at all. I would've expected it to be more, honestly. Let us know how it goes.

Actually- it'd be pretty cool to post pics and a bit of "how-to" worklog as you go. Not all of us can keep up with Big Daddy's terminology. I've never changed out speakers before.

[-DLS-]

I also had a problem with the voice coil on a brand new CC-390 - one of the Mid-range drivers was intermittent. It was replaced since it was Brand New and I even got a loaner while waiting.. Good customer service!! Glad your getting it fixed!

[got rice]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Actually- it'd be pretty cool to post pics and a bit of "how-to" worklog as you go. Not all of us can keep up with Big Daddy's terminology. I've never changed out speakers before.

A great idea. Not sure if I am the right person for this " how to " worklog, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Originally Posted by DLS_222

I also had a problem with the voice coil on a brand new CC-390 - one of the Mid-range drivers was intermittent. It was replaced since it was Brand New and I even got a loaner while waiting.. Good customer service!! Glad your getting it fixed!

Yes, Paradigm is spot on with customer service.