Why exactly does rptv tech fall short of LCD and Plasma in terms of sheer PQ?

[Steelmaker]

I always hear reviews say things like "DLP is the best bang for the buck if you're wanting a large tv for a good price." However I never hear anyone just simply say DLP sets look fantastic on their own accord, regardless of price and size. They always have to throw in the obligatory "it's great if you're too broke to afford a high end tv."

Besides the obvious shortcomings on DLP sets like poor viewing angles, not being able to hang on a wall, and bulb replacements (though the newer Samsungs don't use bulbs) where exactly do they fall short when compared to plasma and LCD and can rptv technology ever theoretically match the others?

I guess the reason I'm asking this is because I currently own a 60" Sony SXRD and to be honest, the PQ still impresses me two years later. When it comes time to upgrade, I want to understand why the other, more expensive technologies are better and worth spending more money than what I spent on my current set. Keep in mind that known "issues" with rptv's like not being wafer thin or the viewing angles being poor are completely non-issues for me. I want someone to go beyond the obvious stated cons for rptv's and explain WHY plasma and LCD have better PQ.

If Samsung and Mitsubishi are still making rptv's when I upgrade, I'm going to be hard pressed to find a reason to change technologies when I have been completely happy with the one I have already. I guess I'm just seeking better understanding (in a nutshell explanation).

[PaulGo]

It does not fall short. A properly adjusted LED or Laser DLP can produce a picture which is superior to LCD or Plasma. It has bewtter black levels, no motion blur, better contrast ratio, better color reproduction and no burn in.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

It does not fall short. A properly adjusted LED or Laser DLP can produce a picture which is superior to LCD or Plasma. It has bewtter black levels, no motion blur, better contrast ratio, better color reproduction and no burn in.

Yeah that's what I was thinking! Man, I'm telling you that new Samsung 61" LED based DLP set looks very tempting at 1,400 bucks! I'm not ready to upgrade but with Samsung getting out of the DLP market, I wonder if I should go ahead and pull the trigger!

Mitsubishi Laservue sets interest me too but they're going to have offer them at a lower price and smaller choices. 67" is just too much tv for my tv room.

[jkwest]

RPTV's were simply dropped because of their size, and, they were more costly to manufacture...all of the electronics giants were losing money on them because of the dollar to yen ratio....they had to move on, unfortunately.

[igotcabada]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Yeah that's what I was thinking! Man, I'm telling you that new Samsung 61" LED based DLP set looks very tempting at 1,400 bucks! I'm not ready to upgrade but with Samsung getting out of the DLP market, I wonder if I should go ahead and pull the trigger!

Mitsubishi Laservue sets interest me too but they're going to have offer them at a lower price and smaller choices. 67" is just too much tv for my tv room.

Do it! I have the 67" & its $$

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by mbader21

Do it! I have the 67" & its $$

ill agree with this..i bought one..then my buddy's parents got one after seeing mine..and then another buddy just bought one today...this is my 6th hdtv and by far the best of all of them.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by eclimax13

ill agree with this..i bought one..then my buddy's parents got one after seeing mine..and then another buddy just bought one today...this is my 6th hdtv and by far the best of all of them.

How does it compare to your Sony 60A2020? I currently have a 60A2000. I have been very happy with it and to be honest, have no reason to upgrade at this time. However I really like rear projection technology and I'm afraid that by the time I do need to upgrade, they won't be available.

In your opinion, do you think the PQ difference is enough to warrant the upgrade? Does it have noticably better color, contrast, black levels, etc? If the difference is that much more noticable, I could always just sell my Sony. I know the Samsung has 120hz video processing where my Sony only has 60hz. Can you tell a difference in smoothness on the frame rate?

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

How does it compare to your Sony 60A2020? I currently have a 60A2000. I have been very happy with it and to be honest, have no reason to upgrade at this time. However I really like rear projection technology and I'm afraid that by the time I do need to upgrade, they won't be available.

In your opinion, do you think the PQ difference is enough to warrant the upgrade? Does it have noticably better color, contrast, black levels, etc? If the difference is that much more noticable, I could always just sell my Sony. I know the Samsung has 120hz video processing where my Sony only has 60hz. Can you tell a difference in smoothness on the frame rate?

with turning cca off in the service menu...i achieved dead on primary colors, using my dve disc...the black levels are a huge improvement and the motion blur is virtually eliminated...i couldnt play video games on the sony due to the blur i'd get...now they are perfect on the samsung...also the led technology means no bulbs...so worth it to upgrade?...i'd say so if its your main tv...and use the sony as a secondary tv or sell it if you can

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by eclimax13

with turning cca off in the service menu...i achieved dead on primary colors, using my dve disc...the black levels are a huge improvement and the motion blur is virtually eliminated...i couldnt play video games on the sony due to the blur i'd get...now they are perfect on the samsung...also the led technology means no bulbs...so worth it to upgrade?...i'd say so if its your main tv...and use the sony as a secondary tv or sell it if you can

Hey can you do me a huge favor? I think I am going to pull the trigger on this set. Can you possibly post your settings for the tv? Also, how do you access the service menu on the Samsung? What is cca?

[ShockWave]

I had a Mits WD73835 Diamond. And I now have a Plasma. I had the Mits professionally calibrated, picture was beautiful. But compared to my new plasma the picture is not as deep and the colors are are not as real. The blacks were not as black and the motion blur is very easy to notice.

The best thing to do is go to a store and compare the TV's you want to buy. Some people can't see things other people can. Scientifically the plasma I have now is better. But your eye is different from what tools can see.

I definitely have to disagree that a LCD or RPTV looks as good as a plasma. From my experience it's not even close. Go check it out yourself. Bottom line if you are happy with your TV that's all that matters.

Read this thread.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95289

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Hey can you do me a huge favor? I think I am going to pull the trigger on this set. Can you possibly post your settings for the tv? Also, how do you access the service menu on the Samsung? What is cca?

honestly my setting will differ from yours due to lighting conditions, but
contrast: 95
bright: 43
sharp: 18
color: 50
tint: 50/50

everything else off or at 0...color at warm1, and led brightness at medium

with tv off...press mute, 1, 8, 2, power
the service menu should not be accessed if your not confident, but if you screw something up, you can just download the update from samsung and reload it...the cca is a main menu for color adjustment...go to the cca menu and hit right and go int the cca menu...then hit right again to turn it off...then due the dve calibration
disc on movie mode

IF YOU DONT HAVE THE DIGITAL VIDEO ESSENTIALS DISC: get it..it'll help you out immensely...but get the blu ray one

[Chaco]

i dont beleive the RPTV hype about being inferior


i have a sammy 50" DLP Lamp and 2 buddies with the 50" LED DLP and 61" LED DLP

they all are 1080p and i cant see TVs looking any better after the calibration we did. what i really like about DLPs is the fact that the pixels are "faded" and you cant really tell them apart, which makes for a crispier picture IMO.... if you go see a LCD or Plasma, you will see each Red/green/blue pixel on the screen matrix

IMO they are not as popular because of their bezel size and not being able to wall mount it.

[Riff Magnum]

I have the 61A750 and my only complaint is a slight silk screen effect on very bright whites. DLP screens have a coating to help with the viewing angles(btw,the viewing angles are great on this set) and on certain scenes you can sometimes see the "texture" of the screen. It's not a deal breaker, but it certainly warrants an explanation. Others complain about bad geometry and convergence issues, but these are things that hardly anyone can notice unless they're putting up test patters. I notice none of these things during regular viewing and barely see them with the patterns and I have good eyes.
I don't recommend turning the CCA off in the service menu like someone stated above.
Go to www.avsforum.com and find the calibration thread for this tv. there's a normal owners thread that's damn near 500 pages long, but a few months ago a few guys broke off and formed their own thread about service menu tweaks. I'm using Lee Bailey's newest settings and they look way better than the OTB settings.
Don't go into it blind though. Read all the posts in both threads. It'll take you a few hours, or maybe a few days, but you'll know every pro and con in depth and every which way.
I got mine for $999 btw. I'd take it any day over a high end 42, 46, 52 inch plasma or lcd. Is it as good as 60" Kuro Elite? NO, but it's not $7000 dollars either. Also, I don't get some of these guys who have thousands of dollars invested in just spectacular audio equipment, but have this little-itty-bitty 40" bravia sitting up there being dwarfed by their 8 foot tall front tower speakers. I love being immersed in sound, but you gotta have some balance.

[olds403]

It doesn't.

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

I have the 61A750 and my only complaint is a slight silk screen effect on very bright whites. DLP screens have a coating to help with the viewing angles(btw,the viewing angles are great on this set) and on certain scenes you can sometimes see the "texture" of the screen. It's not a deal breaker, but it certainly warrants an explanation. Others complain about bad geometry and convergence issues, but these are things that hardly anyone can notice unless they're putting up test patters. I notice none of these things during regular viewing and barely see them with the patterns and I have good eyes.
I don't recommend turning the CCA off in the service menu like someone stated above.
Go to www.avsforum.com and find the calibration thread for this tv. there's a normal owners thread that's damn near 500 pages long, but a few months ago a few guys broke off and formed their own thread about service menu tweaks. I'm using Lee Bailey's newest settings and they look way better than the OTB settings.
Don't go into it blind though. Read all the posts in both threads. It'll take you a few hours, or maybe a few days, but you'll know every pro and con in depth and every which way.
I got mine for $999 btw. I'd take it any day over a high end 42, 46, 52 inch plasma or lcd. Is it as good as 60" Kuro Elite? NO, but it's not $7000 dollars either. Also, I don't get some of these guys who have thousands of dollars invested in just spectacular audio equipment, but have this little-itty-bitty 40" bravia sitting up there being dwarfed by their 8 foot tall front tower speakers. I love being immersed in sound, but you gotta have some balance.

I'd like to hear your reasons for being against turning off the cca menu...to my understanding turning it off basically sets the tv to display exactly what the source is telling it to and it worked great for me...the "lee bailey" settings did not work for my tv, as well as other 67" owners though many have said it helped...calibration is only good for the tv it was done to...when using his settings my tv seemed to have a bluish feel to it and my yellows seriously suffered (try watching bumblebee during transformers with a pale, faded yellow)...now i stopped following that thread at about page 250 so unless someone found out that cca damages the tv, i see no reason for someone not to try and/or benefit from it as i and a couple others i know did.

[Riff Magnum]

Well, yes the settings for the 61" and the 67" are gonna be different and it also depends on the firmware version you have as well. Lee's settings worked for me and most of the 61" owners and even some of the 67" owners i see posting on the thread. Is it perfect? NO. Would i benefit from a pro calibration from someone like www.avical.com ? Absolutely, but i don't wanna spend $300 on something like that now. Maybe in a year or two when the awesomeness of the set has worn off and i have my HD surround setup completed.
Your argument of using a pro calibrator and at the same time recommending turning the CCA off doesn't really hold any water, since every single pro calibrator is gonna tweak those CCA values. That is the meat of the service menu and allows the most tweaking, so bypassing that means you're limiting your options. I've heard no one on that site or any other, even people who are against service menu tweaking by "amateurs," recommend that you turn the CCA menu off. There's even a way to use DVE or AVIA calibration disk in conjunction with the CCA values and service menu. I think the poster that provided this step by step method is named Low Tech or Varus, but i never bothered because it looked pretty time consuming and i was happy with Lee's settings anyways.
Your happy with your tv and i'm happy with mine and that's really all that matters. I was just directing him to do more research and there's really no better place for info on this set than the owners/calibration thread over at AVS.

Also, keep in mind that Lee's setting are very "Movie" oriented and natural. For something like Transformers, Speed Racer, Kung Fu Panda, etc i usually use Standard mode for that popping color everyone likes to see with those type movies. I also keep my contrast much lower than you do and have my LED set to low. I watch movies in the dark and don't usually care too much about colors exploding off the screen or movies that employ those types of palettes. Depends on what kinda picture you like and what the source material/player is as well. Obviously, there's a ton of variables.

[[1080-p]]

Originally Posted by eclimax13

honestly my setting will differ from yours due to lighting conditions, but
contrast: 95
bright: 43
sharp: 18
color: 50
tint: 50/50

everything else off or at 0...color at warm1, and led brightness at medium

with tv off...press mute, 1, 8, 2, power
the service menu should not be accessed if your not confident, but if you screw something up, you can just download the update from samsung and reload it...the cca is a main menu for color adjustment...go to the cca menu and hit right and go int the cca menu...then hit right again to turn it off...then due the dve calibration
disc on movie mode

IF YOU DONT HAVE THE DIGITAL VIDEO ESSENTIALS DISC: get it..it'll help you out immensely...but get the blu ray one

i still perfer rear projection because when hdtvs came onto the market it was those sets that blew me away)))

thru my dve disc away hated it because it only talked about hook up
tried your settings blah

[BTBuck1]

my SXRD model kds55a3000 produces a better picture than my

samsung LCD LNS4696d. Sure the LCD is a tad sharper, but it should be it's 9 inches smaller. But color, contrast, blacks everything better on the SXRD.

which isnt to say the LCD is bad...the SXRD is just incredible.

Such a shame sony abandonned this technology.

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by Riff Magnum

Well, yes the settings for the 61" and the 67" are gonna be different and it also depends on the firmware version you have as well. Lee's settings worked for me and most of the 61" owners and even some of the 67" owners i see posting on the thread. Is it perfect? NO. Would i benefit from a pro calibration from someone like www.avical.com ? Absolutely, but i don't wanna spend $300 on something like that now. Maybe in a year or two when the awesomeness of the set has worn off and i have my HD surround setup completed.
Your argument of using a pro calibrator and at the same time recommending turning the CCA off doesn't really hold any water, since every single pro calibrator is gonna tweak those CCA values. That is the meat of the service menu and allows the most tweaking, so bypassing that means you're limiting your options. I've heard no one on that site or any other, even people who are against service menu tweaking by "amateurs," recommend that you turn the CCA menu off. There's even a way to use DVE or AVIA calibration disk in conjunction with the CCA values and service menu. I think the poster that provided this step by step method is named Low Tech or Varus, but i never bothered because it looked pretty time consuming and i was happy with Lee's settings anyways.
Your happy with your tv and i'm happy with mine and that's really all that matters. I was just directing him to do more research and there's really no better place for info on this set than the owners/calibration thread over at AVS.

Also, keep in mind that Lee's setting are very "Movie" oriented and natural. For something like Transformers, Speed Racer, Kung Fu Panda, etc i usually use Standard mode for that popping color everyone likes to see with those type movies. I also keep my contrast much lower than you do and have my LED set to low. I watch movies in the dark and don't usually care too much about colors exploding off the screen or movies that employ those types of palettes. Depends on what kinda picture you like and what the source material/player is as well. Obviously, there's a ton of variables.

i dont remember saying that you should get a pro calibration and then turn off the cca...that would be pointless...what im saying is that i used my dve with the cca on...then with lee's setting, then i turned off the cca and compared all of the results...with the cca off i achieved dead on primary colors...i mean dead on...im also using movie mode with warm 1...it's worth a shot just to see what happens...and right around the "200" pages there is a discussion by me and a couple of other guys who also tried their tv with the cca off and achieved better results...

now keep in mind that you do lose the ability to change color temp and led brightness by turning it off but i'd use led on medium which is what it sets to...and like i said..colors are dead on.

but like you said...your happy, im happy..it works...just dont deter people from trying different things that have worked for different people

[eclimax13]

Originally Posted by [1080-p]

i still perfer rear projection because when hdtvs came onto the market it was those sets that blew me away)))

thru my dve disc away hated it because it only talked about hook up
tried your settings blah

im a little confused by the purpose of this post..please explain