Serious poker discussion.

[mikejet]

I know there are poker players on this board so I'd like to have a little thread to discuss real strategy and playing styles. I'm a no limit person through and through. I like the aggressiveness of no limit and being able to represent cards rather than needing the nuts in limit.

Here's my current question:

So I'm considering moving up one notch to the $200 no limit tables the next time I go out to play but I'm not sure how big of a difference it will be. At $100 I'm very comfortable and can limit myself and work slowly aiming for that 1 hand per hour rule. I'm decent at calculating outs and can calculate pot odds fine at the $100 level.

How much would that change stepping up to the next buy-in amount? I know there will be less tourists at the table and more serious players so that's one thing that I need to consider also.

[jono_0101]

Originally Posted by mikejet

I know there are poker players on this board so I'd like to have a little thread to discuss real strategy and playing styles. I'm a no limit person through and through. I like the aggressiveness of no limit and being able to represent cards rather than needing the nuts in limit.

Here's my current question:

So I'm considering moving up one notch to the $200 no limit tables the next time I go out to play but I'm not sure how big of a difference it will be. At $100 I'm very comfortable and can limit myself and work slowly aiming for that 1 hand per hour rule. I'm decent at calculating outs and can calculate pot odds fine at the $100 level.

How much would that change stepping up to the next buy-in amount? I know there will be less tourists at the table and more serious players so that's one thing that I need to consider also.

like a lot of decisions in poker, that answer is determined by a ton of different factors: the size of your total bankroll, the number of people at the table, their playing style, average pot size, your comfort level sitting and possibly losing twice what you have been

you really wont know for sure until you sit and give it a try, there is no rule that says you cant play at that limit just one time to see how it goes, if it doesnt feel right, you can always move back down to where you are comfortable, if i were you, i would maybe just give it a try, sit at a table for an hour or two, mabe look for a kind of passive table to ease your way into the limit

and also, the math shouldnt be a problem for you, it doesnt change, the numbers just get bigger, you just gotta keep it in perspective, dont let a big bet scare you out of a call if the odd are right and you feel the call is justified, the first few times might be a shock to see a huge bet, but just keep calm and put it in perspective before deciding

[mikejet]

Well, I'm going to be in Vegas next month and will be playing the $100 no limit for sure a couple times and try to get in a bunch of sit and go's if I can(I love those). I have enough in my budget to sit down and try it out but just wondering if the play field changes dramatically when you move up that one level. I've seen it at the card rooms here in California going from $40 no limit to the $100(after going to the $100 I never looked back).

[silversnake]

I wish I had the balls to play for that much $$ lol. Obviously I don't play it enough, I try to arrange a game once or twice a month. Usually 20 $ a buy in. Sorry, i'm not contributing much to your original question, just contributing in general

[jono_0101]

well that really depends on the table, and if youre gonna do it in vegas, the competition is going to be good, so itll definitely jump up a notch going up to the next limit, if youre able to handle it, it could be really profitable, have you played in vegas much? if not, you might want to get a feel for the $100 tables youre used to playing first to see if you want to make the step up

and i love the sit and go's too, theres not a whole lot of action in the casinos here in st louis, so i do the majority of my playing online, and i play almost exclusively in tournaments and sit and go's when im online

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by silversnake

I wish I had the balls to play for that much $$ lol. Obviously I don't play it enough, I try to arrange a game once or twice a month. Usually 20 $ a buy in. Sorry, i'm not contributing much to your original question, just contributing in general

That's a great way to play. I used to have a weekly cash game with a minimum $20 buy in with blinds at .50 and $1. You could also do sit and go's with the below structure:

1000 in chips = 400 in 25's and 600 in 100's.

$20 buy in. Blinds go up every 15 minutes. Final 3 decide payouts or if they want to play to 1 person.

[jono_0101]

Originally Posted by silversnake

I wish I had the balls to play for that much $$ lol. Obviously I don't play it enough, I try to arrange a game once or twice a month. Usually 20 $ a buy in. Sorry, i'm not contributing much to your original question, just contributing in general

gotta start somewhere man, i started playing in college $5 buy ins at the dorm, then we all started playing online in the .10/.20 NL tables with like $10 or $20, but i still play the occasional $20 game at home with friends too, its always a good time

[PS3+HDDVD OWNER]

Originally Posted by mikejet

I know there are poker players on this board so I'd like to have a little thread to discuss real strategy and playing styles. I'm a no limit person through and through. I like the aggressiveness of no limit and being able to represent cards rather than needing the nuts in limit.

Here's my current question:

So I'm considering moving up one notch to the $200 no limit tables the next time I go out to play but I'm not sure how big of a difference it will be. At $100 I'm very comfortable and can limit myself and work slowly aiming for that 1 hand per hour rule. I'm decent at calculating outs and can calculate pot odds fine at the $100 level.

How much would that change stepping up to the next buy-in amount? I know there will be less tourists at the table and more serious players so that's one thing that I need to consider also.

Mike-

Do you play live or online?

I play $500NL live mostly, and can tell you that many players at $200NL simply don't know the fundamentals of the game. If you are capable of calculating Pot Odds/Implied Odds and EV i think you could crush $200NL. Like i said, alot of donkeys play those limits and simply dont understand the finer elements to the game.

Have you heard of cardrunners? They have a ton of poker videos from many of today's youngest up-and-coming players and they go through micro-mega stakes strategy. I believe full access 1 year membership rates are around $100, but WELL-WORTH it imo. I joined, and within 4 months tripled my bankroll online. Not saying those results are typical, but MANY of today's young players have memberships at cardrunners. I'd highly recommend looking at that.

Have you read any Sklansky cash game books? His books are considered some of the best for cash game players of all limits. Alot of professionals say that your bankroll needs to be 100X the max buy in at the tables you play. That is a solid rule, but can be bent a little bit. I have a friend that plays $5/10 NL on Stars with a $12-15k bankroll that consistently wins, and withdraws $3k/month to pay for his college. It's all about being comfortable with what you currently have, and knowing when to call it a day.


PM me if you have any other questions, i talk poker with 6 of my buddies online and on the phone. We've got a pretty good group, and some very knowledgable players.

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by jono_0101

well that really depends on the table, and if youre gonna do it in vegas, the competition is going to be good, so itll definitely jump up a notch going up to the next limit, if youre able to handle it, it could be really profitable, have you played in vegas much? if not, you might want to get a feel for the $100 tables youre used to playing first to see if you want to make the step up

and i love the sit and go's too, theres not a whole lot of action in the casinos here in st louis, so i do the majority of my playing online, and i play almost exclusively in tournaments and sit and go's when im online

I did a weekend binge at the Flamingo in Vegas last time I was there. I think I logged about 16 hours total and profited about $1000. Which is ok but not great. That include sitting at other rooms and different game types. I HATE 2-4 limit. That pissed me off. You would think people wouldn't chase in 2-4 against a made hand BUT THEY DO.

I've played $100 at Commerce and The Bike and those have some really good players. This will be the first time I move to $200.

Going to try and get one tournament in if I can.

[silversnake]

Originally Posted by jono_0101

gotta start somewhere man, i started playing in college $5 buy ins at the dorm, then we all started playing online in the .10/.20 NL tables with like $10 or $20, but i still play the occasional $20 game at home with friends too, its always a good time

indeed it is. I'm so bad at keeping my emotions in some times though. haha. Pressure amounts really fast. That's why it's so impressive to see these players put all this money on the table and they bluff their way out of it. Very impressive

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by PS3+HDDVD OWNER

Mike-

Do you play live or online?

I play $500NL live mostly, and can tell you that many players at $200NL simply don't know the fundamentals of the game. If you are capable of calculating Pot Odds/Implied Odds and EV i think you could crush $200NL. Like i said, alot of donkeys play those limits and simply dont understand the finer elements to the game.

Have you heard of cardrunners? They have a ton of poker videos from many of today's youngest up-and-coming players and they go through micro-mega stakes strategy. I believe full access 1 year membership rates are around $100, but WELL-WORTH it imo. I joined, and within 4 months tripled my bankroll online. Not saying those results are typical, but MANY of today's young players have memberships at cardrunners. I'd highly recommend looking at that.

Have you read any Sklansky cash game books? His books are considered some of the best for cash game players of all limits. Alot of professionals say that your bankroll needs to be 100X the max buy in at the tables you play. That is a solid rule, but can be bent a little bit. I have a friend that plays $5/10 NL on Stars with a $12-15k bankroll that consistently wins, and withdraws $3k/month to pay for his college. It's all about being comfortable with what you currently have, and knowing when to call it a day.


PM me if you have any other questions, i talk poker with 6 of my buddies online and on the phone. We've got a pretty good group, and some very knowledgable players.

I stick to live games as I need to be able to see opponents. I can tell when I can push and they will call when I want them too. Like in one had I played at Hollywood Park:

I have 4-4 and call the big blind. Flop comes A-4-4 and I check. Person behind me bets and I only call. Everyone else has folded. I check to the river and when I'm first to act I go all-in after letting him bet throughout and tell him straight out I'll shwo regardless of him calling or not. He called out cause I think he had A-K but mucked and didn't show.

I love things like that. Plus the free drinks in Vegas while sitting there are nice.

One thing I noticed though sitting in the Flamingo, not sure about other caisnos, but you could spot the locals and kind of get on their side if you know what I mean.

I've read The Theory of Poker and Super System. In Super System I only read the sections on Hold Em and No Limit.

I'll never forget this one hand when I was in vegas last time. I have an Ace high flush on the turn and bet $100. Two people behind me need to act and SOMEONE NOT IN THE HAND says outloud "Looks like someone has the Ace!"

[PS3+HDDVD OWNER]

Originally Posted by mikejet

I stick to live games as I need to be able to see opponents. I can tell when I can push and they will call when I want them too. Like in one had I played at Hollywood Park:

I have 4-4 and call the big blind. Flop comes A-4-4 and I check. Person behind me bets and I only call. Everyone else has folded. I check to the river and when I'm first to act I go all-in after letting him bet throughout and tell him straight out I'll shwo regardless of him calling or not. He called out cause I think he had A-K but mucked and didn't show.

I love things like that. Plus the free drinks in Vegas while sitting there are nice.

One thing I noticed though sitting in the Flamingo, not sure about other caisnos, but you could spot the locals and kind of get on their side if you know what I mean.

I've read The Theory of Poker and Super System. In Super System I only read the sections on Hold Em and No Limit.

I'll never forget this one hand when I was in vegas last time. I have an Ace high flush on the turn and bet $100. Two people behind me need to act and SOMEONE NOT IN THE HAND says outloud "Looks like someone has the Ace!"

Live games are what i prefer as well, however i usually log 20-25 hours a week on Pokerstars also.

Theory of Poker and Super System are very good books, i've read both of those myself. Definately check out Slansky's cash game books too, they are excellent cash game strategy books.

Sometimes people don't imply poker ettiquette, and it happens everywhere. Just try and make sure you're not the one saying something inappropriate during a hand. Sucks when it happens to you though, but every poker player has been there at some point.

I usually sit down at my $500NL games and play very tight the first couple of orbits. No sense in sitting down and getting involved in a big pot that i have no information on the opposing player. After a few orbits and seeing a few showdowns i'll start playing more tight-aggressive style and 3 betting in position. That's when things tend to get a little crazier

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by PS3+HDDVD OWNER

Live games are what i prefer as well, however i usually log 20-25 hours a week on Pokerstars also.

Theory of Poker and Super System are very good books, i've read both of those myself. Definately check out Slansky's cash game books too, they are excellent cash game strategy books.

Sometimes people don't imply poker ettiquette, and it happens everywhere. Just try and make sure you're not the one saying something inappropriate during a hand. Sucks when it happens to you though, but every poker player has been there at some point.

I usually sit down at my $500NL games and play very tight the first couple of orbits. No sense in sitting down and getting involved in a big pot that i have no information on the opposing player. After a few orbits and seeing a few showdowns i'll start playing more tight-aggressive style and 3 betting in position. That's when things tend to get a little crazier

I try two switch up my playing style too alot during a game. Throw in some randoms also so people will not follow all the time.

My older brother was the one to introduce me to poker and he plays way too tight and it's his downfall. He would be great at limit though.

I was surprised at the 08 WSOP the rulign they made where you can "pump fake" with chips now. I understand that it's in the rules but that rule should be changed. Forward motion with your chips should be considered a bet.

[PS3+HDDVD OWNER]

Originally Posted by mikejet

I try two switch up my playing style too alot during a game. Throw in some randoms also so people will not follow all the time.

My older brother was the one to introduce me to poker and he plays way too tight and it's his downfall. He would be great at limit though.

I was surprised at the 08 WSOP the rulign they made where you can "pump fake" with chips now. I understand that it's in the rules but that rule should be changed. Forward motion with your chips should be considered a bet.

That was absolutely ridiculous. When the chips make their way to the center, they're in the pot. Cantu was pissed because he had a full house too. And the funniest thing about that is the guy that did it ended up donking off all his chips anyways. Guy couldn't even speak english, lol

[ThePhantomOak]

First off, I have played a LOT of limit poker. The opinion that you need the nuts in limit is bullsh*t. You just need to be a good limit player.

I built a good bankroll in 3-6 limit in a few months of playing, and know a couple people who literally make a living playing 3-6.

I moved up to higher limit games, but it is still a game of knowing how to play. I even payed my way through most of college playing 4-8 and above. Maybe $200-$700 a week. Once I hit $3000 as a bankroll I just started paying rent.

Limit is just a different game, same as no-limit and tournament poker are two different games.

Now I prefer no-limit because of the WSOP has brought so many douche bags to the game that money is almost free.

That said, I had no problem going from $100 Buys to $300 and 1000 dollar buys. It is the same game. It aint even bigger numbers because the chips do the counting for you. You either know how to play or you dont. Simple as that.

Also, that one hand an hour thing is a rookie way to play. You would never win anything more than a big blind off of me. NEVER go into a poker room with a strategy...I am constantly changing strategy depending on the table I am playing. No two people are alike, so why would my style playing them ever be the same?


It aint rocket science.



Unless you are playing online... Then I dont know what to tell you, because the ability for cheating is WAY too large.

Originally Posted by mikejet

I know there are poker players on this board so I'd like to have a little thread to discuss real strategy and playing styles. I'm a no limit person through and through. I like the aggressiveness of no limit and being able to represent cards rather than needing the nuts in limit.

Here's my current question:

So I'm considering moving up one notch to the $200 no limit tables the next time I go out to play but I'm not sure how big of a difference it will be. At $100 I'm very comfortable and can limit myself and work slowly aiming for that 1 hand per hour rule. I'm decent at calculating outs and can calculate pot odds fine at the $100 level.

How much would that change stepping up to the next buy-in amount? I know there will be less tourists at the table and more serious players so that's one thing that I need to consider also.

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by mikejet

I'll never forget this one hand when I was in vegas last time. I have an Ace high flush on the turn and bet $100. Two people behind me need to act and SOMEONE NOT IN THE HAND says outloud "Looks like someone has the Ace!"

That is criminal in Nevada. Next time that happens have the poker room manager escort him out or threaten to call the cops.

I am not kidding, Gambling Law in Nevada is a VERY serious thing. I have had several people removed from casinos for talking about a hand.

It is illegal to talk about a hand unless you are involved and heads up. If three people are in the hand, NONE of them can talk about the hand. It is not Casino rules, it is Nevada gaming law.


<--took several gaming classes while getting my degree.

[toef]

Originally Posted by ThePhantomOak

First off, I have played a LOT of limit poker. The opinion that you need the nuts in limit is bullsh*t. You just need to be a good limit player.

Unless you are playing online... Then I dont know what to tell you, because the ability for cheating is WAY too large.

For the people here that consider themselves good... how long had you been playing/how often, before you felt you were actually good at it?

And by good I mean good enough to win fairly consistently if playing at a casino, rather than just relying on lucky hands.

Also, since poker has obviously passed its peak in ratings (it seemed huge a couple years ago, not so much anymore), do you find the number of "douchebags" has gone down, or do they still turn up all over? Also, is it actually harder to play them, since there's no rhyme or reason to what they are doing, or is it easier?

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by PS3+HDDVD OWNER

That was absolutely ridiculous. When the chips make their way to the center, they're in the pot. Cantu was pissed because he had a full house too. And the funniest thing about that is the guy that did it ended up donking off all his chips anyways. Guy couldn't even speak english, lol

If the WSOP does not start to unf*ck itself it is going to have to move out of Nevada...

when Jamie Gold won he was breaking tourny rules and Nevada Law left and right and the organizers did not kick him out. I was amazed and it was brought up several times in a casino management class I took.

I wonder what exactly happened in relation to tourny rules and law in this case.

[mikejet]

Originally Posted by toefer

For the people here that consider themselves good... how long had you been playing/how often, before you felt you were actually good at it?

And by good I mean good enough to win fairly consistently if playing at a casino, rather than just relying on lucky hands.

Also, since poker has obviously passed its peak in ratings (it seemed huge a couple years ago, not so much anymore), do you find the number of "douchebags" has gone down, or do they still turn up all over? Also, is it actually harder to play them, since there's no rhyme or reason to what they are doing, or is it easier?

I still feel that luck is always involved. I've been beaten on the river by people who called with rags. That's one thing you have to live with. I've been playing for about 8 years casually. Never took the step to play professionally.

[ThePhantomOak]

Originally Posted by toefer

For the people here that consider themselves good... how long had you been playing/how often, before you felt you were actually good at it?

And by good I mean good enough to win fairly consistently if playing at a casino, rather than just relying on lucky hands.

Also, since poker has obviously passed its peak in ratings (it seemed huge a couple years ago, not so much anymore), do you find the number of "douchebags" has gone down, or do they still turn up all over? Also, is it actually harder to play them, since there's no rhyme or reason to what they are doing, or is it easier?

It took me a good year to understand the game and a couple more to figure out how to play it well enough to make money. I would say around a year and a half I was making money, but I invested a good 2 or 3 thousand into the game before that point.

As for douchebag donkeys, they stick to the bigger "name" casinos, and usually are out in force on weekends... It is quite amazing.

I have a friend that can not handle their style at all and losses his ass every time, and he is damn good against average to above average players. He just does not get that it is a different style and strategy when playing people that dont know what they are doing. The main problem is they come from out of town with a few thousand dollars to gamble with, and they treat poker as gambling as if it is blackjack or craps.

So, when you play them, they usually will call down with a low pair, or even an ace high, make weird bluffs... basically any crazy thing you can imagine. All you have to do is make them pay more than they should to see the next card and over the course of the year you make money (hopefully). Most people get frustrated and start to bet smaller knowing the other guy will call no matter what, increasing the donkey's odds... I always make them pay more when they start winning silly hands like J3 off. ****em, luck dont last, and luck dont scare me.



No matter how good you are, or lucky your starting hands, you will always run into some crazy situations and bad beats. I have stories, but so does everyone who plays.