Rega P9

[joe1515]

Is this is a good turntable? Does the slim design take away from the table? Are there better comparable tables in the price range.

I am probably going to upgrade to the VPI Classic, but the slim design of the Rega P9 fits my audio cabinet better. However I can make enough room to fit the VPI classic or most other tables.

Thanks,

Joe

[richteer]

I've heard good things about the P9, so it wouldn't be a bad choice. Can you audition it?

But given your equipment list, I strongly recommend you get yourself a nice phono stage. The one in your 3809 receiver is not doing any justice to the rest of your vinyl-playing set up.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by richteer

I've heard good things about the P9, so it wouldn't be a bad choice. Can you audition it?

But given your equipment list, I strongly recommend you get yourself a nice phono stage. The one in your 3809 receiver is not doing any justice to the rest of your vinyl-playing set up.

I haven't personally heard the P9 either. Whatever you get as a turntable in that price range, as Rich has suggested, you should look into a good phono stage as well as a good cartridge to fill out the system.

Rich

[Johnny Vinyl]

I've not listened to or auditioned the Rega P9 either (for some reason very difficult to find a dealer that has one on display), but you could do worse. Rega is a very well-respected TT manufacturer, although personally their designs leave me cold.

Like both Rich's have said in their posts, I would recommend a Phono-stage upgrade as well and a cartridge that suits your musical tastes.

Is this a purchase (the Rega P9) that has been finalized or yet to come?

John

[joe1515]

This purchase yas not yet been finalized, I am leaning towards the VPI classic I listened to it yesterday it sounded amazing but its hard to tell the equipment was much better than mine.

I currently have the Pro-Ject Phono Box SE II phono stage and the sumiko blue point #2 cartridge.

[Johnny Vinyl]

From seeing your 2 choices I can surmize that you are aesthetically attracted the wood-look finish both the Rega P9 and VPI Classic offer. And that's a fair point, because aesthetics are and should definately be a consideration.

I don't know enough about the Rega's, but the VPI's are attractive in my opinion because of their upgradeability. I'm not sure though if the new VPI Classic fits that pattern. My initial thought is that is not nearly as upgradeable as the Scout, Scoutmaster and Aries TT's from VPI. As such, and if it were me, I'd opt for either a Scout or a Scoutmaster. The Aries is a bit more expensive.

I can tell you for fact that both the Rega and VPI with the right cartridge will sound far superior than your Pro-Ject XpressionIII. And that's not a knock, as Pro-Ject also makes wonderful TT's. Sometimes however, as with eveything, that realization only sets in after a while.

I don't know if I've added anything constructive to your post and I hope that Rich and Rich add to this as their setups far outweigh anything you and I have.

John

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by John72953

From seeing your 2 choices I can surmize that you are aesthetically attracted the wood-look finish both the Rega P9 and VPI Classic offer. And that's a fair point, because aesthetics are and should definately be a consideration.

I don't know enough about the Rega's, but the VPI's are attractive in my opinion because of their upgradeability. I'm not sure though if the new VPI Classic fits that pattern. My initial thought is that is not nearly as upgradeable as the Scout, Scoutmaster and Aries TT's from VPI. As such, and if it were me, I'd opt for either a Scout or a Scoutmaster. The Aries is a bit more expensive.

I can tell you for fact that both the Rega and VPI with the right cartridge will sound far superior than your Pro-Ject XpressionIII. And that's not a knock, as Pro-Ject also makes wonderful TT's. Sometimes however, as with eveything, that realization only sets in after a while.

I don't know if I've added anything constructive to your post and I hope that Rich and Rich add to this as their setups far outweigh anything you and I have.

John

John,

I suspect that neither Rich nor I can really provide very much additional information regarding the choices of the 5 turntable suggestions (4 VPI and the Rega P9). I admit that both Rich and I have exceedingly expensive analog rigs. For myself, I just made this tremendous journey and moving from my 35 year old modified Thorens to my present turntable. When I auditioned the big brother of my turntable 11 months ago I had never auditioned or heard an analog system of this quality before. When my turntable was installed and assembled now only 3 weeks ago both the designer and I were in awe of the performance of my new Turntable particularly once we placed the Marigo Labs TR Mystery feet under the Teres Certus control box. The turntable designer concluded that with my set-up and rack system my turntable sounded better than the more expensive version of my turntable that would cost an additional $5,000 with the standard feet under the control box.

So, you may ask what am I saying and what does this mean? First when you get to a certain point in equipment the rest of your components have to be able to perform adequately or equal to the other components or you will not realize what is possible. You can have components that are antagonistic, synergistic, or something in between.

So, if you are willing to make a substantial economic investment, make sure that the rest of the system can live up to the components or be prepared to make the appropriate changes later.

As to the turntables in question the VPI Scout,Scoutmaster, and Classic, these are all in the $2100 to $3000 price range. Once we get to the VPI Aries and the Rega P9 we are getting into the $4,800 to $5,000 range. I would most definitely expect that there will be a noticeable improvement going from the $2100 to $3,000 range to the $4,800 to $5,000 range. You will have to decide for yourself if the difference is worth it and you can afford the cost difference especially considering the need for a cartridge and phono preamp.

For most people certainly when getting into that $5,000 range that is a serious investment especially when you have yet to include a very good cartridge and phono preamp that will undoubtedly add at least another $1,500 to $3,000 or more to the final cost to be able to perform to these tables abilities.

I know that appearance may be important. But, before I were to spend $2,000 to $5,000 on a turntable I would most definitely want to have an audition of the equipment. I would also like to have an opportunity to hear different cartridges and phono preamps to get an idea of their "sound" and do they project the kind of sound for the music that I prefer.

Another thing to consider is once you get your equipment to this level, you may well need to consider your system components, wiring, power cords, racks, and tweaks. These will all substantially affect the audio performance.

[Johnny Vinyl]

My assessment on the price of the Rega P9 was incorrect as I read a British review......it is indeed closer to the VPI Aries Level. My apologies.

John

[joe1515]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

John,

I suspect that neither Rich nor I can really provide very much additional information regarding the choices of the 5 turntable suggestions (4 VPI and the Rega P9). I admit that both Rich and I have exceedingly expensive analog rigs. For myself, I just made this tremendous journey and moving from my 35 year old modified Thorens to my present turntable. When I auditioned the big brother of my turntable 11 months ago I had never auditioned or heard an analog system of this quality before. When my turntable was installed and assembled now only 3 weeks ago both the designer and I were in awe of the performance of my new Turntable particularly once we placed the Marigo Labs TR Mystery feet under the Teres Certus control box. The turntable designer concluded that with my set-up and rack system my turntable sounded better than the more expensive version of my turntable that would cost an additional $5,000 with the standard feet under the control box.

So, you may ask what am I saying and what does this mean? First when you get to a certain point in equipment the rest of your components have to be able to perform adequately or equal to the other components or you will not realize what is possible. You can have components that are antagonistic, synergistic, or something in between.

So, if you are willing to make a substantial economic investment, make sure that the rest of the system can live up to the components or be prepared to make the appropriate changes later.

As to the turntables in question the VPI Scout,Scoutmaster, and Classic, these are all in the $2100 to $3000 price range. Once we get to the VPI Aries and the Rega P9 we are getting into the $4,800 to $5,000 range. I would most definitely expect that there will be a noticeable improvement going from the $2100 to $3,000 range to the $4,800 to $5,000 range. You will have to decide for yourself if the difference is worth it and you can afford the cost difference especially considering the need for a cartridge and phono preamp.

For most people certainly when getting into that $5,000 range that is a serious investment especially when you have yet to include a very good cartridge and phono preamp that will undoubtedly add at least another $1,500 to $3,000 or more to the final cost to be able to perform to these tables abilities.

I know that appearance may be important. But, before I were to spend $2,000 to $5,000 on a turntable I would most definitely want to have an audition of the equipment. I would also like to have an opportunity to hear different cartridges and phono preamps to get an idea of their "sound" and do they project the kind of sound for the music that I prefer.

Another thing to consider is once you get your equipment to this level, you may well need to consider your system components, wiring, power cords, racks, and tweaks. These will all substantially affect the audio performance.

I completley understand what you are saying and over time I am going to upgrade the cartridge and phono stage. I want to keep my current equipment so I can get a feel for the difference the table makes.

Looks are really not that important because unless I chose the Rega P9, the table will be placed inside of a cabinet. I was really wondering if the slim desing of the Rega's take away from the performance.

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I completley understand what you are saying and over time I am going to upgrade the cartridge and phono stage. I want to keep my current equipment so I can get a feel for the difference the table makes.

Looks are really not that important because unless I chose the Rega P9, the table will be placed inside of a cabinet. I was really wondering if the slim desing of the Rega's take away from the performance.

Joe,

I would doubt that the slim design of the Rega P9 takes away from its performance. This is either the top or one of the top Rega Turntables. They have been in the business for a long time. But, if I were you, I would try to audition this and some of the other turntables including the VPI turntables that have been mentioned before making the final choice.

One thing that has not been mentioned by Rich, John, or myself is the importance of the source component. With the possible exception of your speakers, the source component, in this case the turntable is probably going to have the greatest impact on the sound reproduction. So, for the analog system the turntable will have the greatest affect probably followed by the tonearm and then it could either be the phono preamp or the cartridge.

Rich

[richteer]

Originally Posted by naturephoto1

One thing that has not been mentioned by Rich, John, or myself is the importance of the source component. With the possible exception of your speakers, the source component, in this case the turntable is probably going to have the greatest impact on the sound reproduction. So, for the analog system the turntable will have the greatest affect probably followed by the tonearm and then it could either be the phono preamp or the cartridge.

Very true--that's a point that can't be overstated. The old GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) principle applies here. It doesn't matter how good your amp etc. are if you have a lousy front end, because no matter how good they are, great components can't replace information that was lost before them in the chain. So you want to get as good arm and cartridge that you can afford (or at least plan to upgrade later). Ditto for the phono stage, although they are easier to upgrade the the TT/arm/cartridge.

If you are interested in turntables in the $5k bracket, another model you should consider is the Oracle Delphi V. Partner it with an entry level arm and upgrade to an SME arm later.

[joe1515]

Originally Posted by richteer

If you are interested in turntables in the $5k bracket, another model you should consider is the Oracle Delphi V. Partner it with an entry level arm and upgrade to an SME arm later.

Very intersting looking turntable, they are sending me information on the table and also local dealer info.

I am having a hard time finding a local dealer who has the Rega P9 to audition, so far I have read nothing but good reviews.

Joe

[naturephoto1]

Originally Posted by joe1515

Very intersting looking turntable, they are sending me information on the table and also local dealer info.

I am having a hard time finding a local dealer who has the Rega P9 to audition, so far I have read nothing but good reviews.

Joe

Joe,

You may also wish to consider one of the Origin Live Turntables as well. There are several models from which to choose. However, I do believe that they are sold without a tonearm (they offer quite a number). Mark Baker, of Origin Live in the UK has been making modifications to Rega tonearms, his own tonearms and turntables for some time. They have been well reviewed, but I do not know who has them available for auditioning. I had been watching their turntables and tonearms closely with a lot of interest for some years before I ultimately made my purchase.

Rich

[joe1515]

What do you guys think of the Clearaudio Performance table? It is only 5.1 inches high and will fit on top of my cabinet perfect.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by joe1515

What do you guys think of the Clearaudio Performance table? It is only 5.1 inches high and will fit on top of my cabinet perfect.

I think Clearaudio makes wonderful TT's, but I would say that as I was looking at a Marantz, which was based on their Emotion TT. It doesn't compare to the level that you are considering and certainly nowhere near what both Rich's own, but I would say they you should give it some serious consideration.

If it were me, and I had the financial resources available, I'd go with the Oracle Delphi V...hands down. One of my good friends has the Delphi II or III, I can't remember exactly and it is absolute heaven. It is magnificent in appearance, the build quality is unmatched and the sound is well....beyond imagination.

John

[joe1515]

I was thinking does it make sense to spend around 5k for a turntable when my components and speakers probably cost around the same price.

I am wondering if my set up will be able to realize the full potential of such a table, or does it makes sense to be in the 3k range? This might be stupid way to think, just wondering.

Joe

[richteer]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I was thinking does it make sense to spend around 5k for a turntable when my components and speakers probably cost around the same price.

I am wondering if my set up will be able to realize the full potential of such a table, or does it makes sense to be in the 3k range? This might be stupid way to think, just wondering.

Joe

Will your set current electronics and speaker let you realise the full potential of a $5k turntable? Probably not. But you should definately hear a large improvement over a $3k turntable, and if--when!--you upgrade your other stuff, you'll reap the benefit. Case in point: my turntable would probably cost about $30k to replace if I had to do it now, yet my preamp is a used entry-level Audio Research SP-9 which was no more than $1800 when new, and my power amps are about $3200 (my speakers are about $9k). So from a certain point of view, my turntable hopelessly outclasses my electronics and perhaps even my speakers. But I get much better sound than I would if I used a lesser unit. (I'm trying to figure out how to raise my electronics to the appropriate level, but that's not an inexpensive proposition!)

Short answer: if this is to be your "last" turntable, spend the extra cash and be happy. :-)

[rded]

Joe,

I am by no means a TT expert but I have had the opportunity to audition quite a few TTs. Although I have not heard the P9, I was able to audition the P7. The thing with Rega TTs is the family resemblance sonically is evident in all lines and upgradability is one of its strong points. With that said, you are better off getting a better Pre/pro and amp or a better receiver as the Denon 3808Ci is not the most articulate and musical of receivers or pre/pros. Your better off with a TT the 2-3k range that is highly upgradeable. Going up to a 5k TT just doesn't make sense when your weakest link is you processor IMHO.

[joe1515]

Originally Posted by rded

Joe,

I am by no means a TT expert but I have had the opportunity to audition quite a few TTs. Although I have not heard the P9, I was able to audition the P7. The thing with Rega TTs is the family resemblance sonically is evident in all lines and upgradability is one of its strong points. With that said, you are better off getting a better Pre/pro and amp or a better receiver as the Denon 3808Ci is not the most articulate and musical of receivers or pre/pros. Your better off with a TT the 2-3k range that is highly upgradeable. Going up to a 5k TT just doesn't make sense when your weakest link is you processor IMHO.

I think I am starting to agree with you. I was on the phone with a local dealer yesterday talking about tables when he asked me what equipment I had, when I told him i had the Denon 3808 he said it was a piece of garbage and it was known to be the worst sounding reciever with a terrible amp. I am not sure how much credence I put on what he says, he is the same person that told me the Opp blu-ray was crap and their customer service stunk. Is what he said true about the Denon 3808? rded basically echoed his words in a much more professional manner.

I think I might be better off upgrading my amp/receiver and maybe going along the lines of a P7.

Joe

[richteer]

Originally Posted by joe1515

I think I am starting to agree with you. I was on the phone with a local dealer yesterday talking about tables when he asked me what equipment I had, when I told him i had the Denon 3808 he said it was a piece of garbage and it was known to be the worst sounding reciever with a terrible amp. I am not sure how much credence I put on what he says, he is the same person that told me the Opp blu-ray was crap and their customer service stunk. Is what he said true about the Denon 3808? rded basically echoed his words in a much more professional manner.

I think I might be better off upgrading my amp/receiver and maybe going along the lines of a P7.

Joe

Given that it is "just" a receiver, my impression is that the Denon 3808 is NOT a piece of garbage (nor is Oppo!). However, it is true that it would be totally eclipsed by either a $3k turntable or a $5k one. Whichever one you go for (and I do recommend stretching your budget as far as you can), you do need to replace your receiver with something with more audiophile aspirations ASAP--even if you just start with a phono stage and stereo preamp (and use the 3808 as a power amp).

When you're talking about this level of expenditure, it's a whole new ballgame.