Let's talk UPS - Blu-ray Forum

Driver_King · 05-20-2009, 11:55 PM

These storms we're getting in the local Tampa Bay have been worrying me. No power outages yet *knock on wood* but I don't want to take chances for another year. I don't have a ground plug on my power outlet on the wall but I'm not going to try to get an updated one installed any time soon. I'm thinking about getting a UPS and then connecting that to a APC power conditioner for all my equipment. Any suggestions? It will have to be able to power all of my equipment; projector, TV, receiver, PS3, ect. I don't want find that the UPS cannot handle all that. If it doesn't matter, I'll get one of these.

crackinhedz · 05-20-2009, 11:58 PM

for all of your equipment you might need more than 300VA.

Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD UPS

Driver_King · 05-21-2009, 12:09 AM

I figured that Crackin.

Now that I think about it, a power conditioner may not really be necessary along with a UPS but I do want to spend as little as possible. I have a big vacation coming up next month and will be gone for 3 weeks. I will most likely keep everything unplugged but these storms are worrying me. Is that one of the best UPS sets out there? I don't know too much about UPS systems, at least buying wise.

crackinhedz · 05-21-2009, 12:12 AM

you don't really need an UPS, unless there are things you would like to shut down manually, such as a PC or a DLP to let the bulb cool down.

You should be just fine with one of those APC power conditioners.

Driver_King · 05-21-2009, 12:13 AM

Well, I do have the projector...

phantompwr · 05-21-2009, 12:14 AM

You need this: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...m?base_sku=S15

However I think if you pick and choose which items are on the UPS, and just use a conditioner for the rest, you could get away with using a small battery backup system and spending less money

vega2K · 05-21-2009, 03:24 AM

My biggest concern is my Projector, so here's what I did:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=25

I figured the other gear is covered at least with Surge Protection. If my PJ bulb blows, that'a about $400!

Check out this thread for more info:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=97906

Cpus456 · 05-21-2009, 03:36 AM

picked one up at the source for 20 bucks - it was clearance.

My optoma has a critical 6 sec count down before completely tums off.

Its my understanding that you can pop the bulb with out proper cool down

A ups is a small investment to protect you projo

repete66211 · 05-21-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver_King

These storms we're getting in the local Tampa Bay have been worrying me. No power outages yet *knock on wood* but I don't want to take chances for another year. I don't have a ground plug on my power outlet on the wall but I'm not going to try to get an updated one installed any time soon. I'm thinking about getting a UPS and then connecting that to a APC power conditioner for all my equipment. Any suggestions? It will have to be able to power all of my equipment; projector, TV, receiver, PS3, ect. I don't want find that the UPS cannot handle all that. If it doesn't matter, I'll get one of these.

We've all heard of the very popular APC H15 power conditioner/surge protector. Well, the J series offers all that and battery backup. But, as I'm sure you know already, they are a little expensive ($550-$650 retail).

http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/pr...n=model&id=309

Ask APC which device meets your needs. I asked what would work best with my setup. They said the H15 would work fine as long as my devices don't hit their max power consumption. It's good to hear it from the source.

ifuwereahotdog · 05-21-2009, 10:01 PM

Well, like crakinhedz said 300VA is not enough. I have a 1285VA UPS and that will only power my TV and PS3 (its really only 750W). VA in the electrical industry is watts ---> V (volts) times A (amps)...but in this case you need to take the VA times .6 to give you watts. Or .8 depending on the company doing the calculation. Do you have all your gear plugged into 1 outlet at it stands right now? And have you ever blown your breaker? I would guess that all your gear is pushing your breaker to near it's max, depending on what you have on at once, and what kind of TV and projector you have. Bottom line, you are going to need a UPS sized at around 3000VA if everything is running at the same time for the UPS not to trip. But the hightest I would go is probably somewhere around 2500VA to be safe.

vicdog · 05-22-2009, 04:38 PM

How do you plan to connect the three prong plugs to the two prong outlet? These devices rely on a solid ground to protect your equipment.

You may want to look into a surge protector at the main panel also.

Driver_King · 05-24-2009, 07:20 PM

Look at this. Monoprice sells a UPS backup/power conditioner for $175!

I also noticed they sell a new line of speakers. I may have to get some of those in wall speakers for the living room.

Blu-Raider · 05-24-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifuwereahotdog

Well, like crakinhedz said 300VA is not enough. I have a 1285VA UPS and that will only power my TV and PS3 (its really only 750W). VA in the electrical industry is watts ---> V (volts) times A (amps)...but in this case you need to take the VA times .6 to give you watts. Or .8 depending on the company doing the calculation. Do you have all your gear plugged into 1 outlet at it stands right now? And have you ever blown your breaker? I would guess that all your gear is pushing your breaker to near it's max, depending on what you have on at once, and what kind of TV and projector you have. Bottom line, you are going to need a UPS sized at around 3000VA if everything is running at the same time for the UPS not to trip. But the hightest I would go is probably somewhere around 2500VA to be safe.

"VA" versus "watts" has absolutely nothing to do with the company doing the calculation. It has everthing to do with the design and construction of the device. "VA" is nothing more than an abbreviation for (Volt)x(Amps). If your line voltage is running 120VAC you can bet a 1500VA device is pulling around 12.5A at full output load. Unfornuately the amount of actual power available is reduced by inefficiencies and an electrical phenomena known as power factor. "Watts" reflects the actual power available at the output of the UPS. For sizing UPS equipment it is the only number that really matters.

DIY_HD · 05-25-2009, 04:59 AM

Driver, as I understand it, surge protectors (and power conditioners) rely on a ground to vent excess voltage. If you have no ground, no surge protector will protect your equipment. You are right to be concerned about your sensitive electronics. We're not talking about 60-watt light bulbs here. You may be able to provide a ground by running a conductor from your outlet to a spike in the ground outside. I believe you will need a copper rod driven about 3-4 feet into the ground. But I wouldn't stop there. Near strikes of lightning can back up voltage through the ground via this conduit. I would add a lightning arrestor in this ground line. You will also need a 2-prong to 3-prong adapter with a grounding tab.

As for UPS protection, these will maintain power to your equipment long enough to shut them down gracefully. However, I believe these also require a ground to protect your equipment from voltage spikes and surges.

I realize budget is an issue, but at the very least, get a good surge protector (or power conditioner) and a ground wire with a lightning arrestor. If you are worried about your equipment not being protected, you should be. It's not.

ifuwereahotdog · 05-25-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blu-Raider

"VA" versus "watts" has absolutely nothing to do with the company doing the calculation. It has everthing to do with the design and construction of the device. "VA" is nothing more than an abbreviation for (Volt)x(Amps). If your line voltage is running 120VAC you can bet a 1500VA device is pulling around 12.5A at full output load. Unfornuately the amount of actual power available is reduced by inefficiencies and an electrical phenomena known as power factor. "Watts" reflects the actual power available at the output of the UPS. For sizing UPS equipment it is the only number that really matters.

Yes, but if your UPS is 1500VA, you really will be only getting around 900W. Lets use geek squad and APC for example...geek squad says their UPS is 1285VA, which is actually 750W. Then APC has a 3000VA that is rated for 2400W. Geek Squad uses a .6 power factor while APC uses .8. I consider "the company doing the calculation" the same as "the design and construction". So how do you know exactly how many watts you will get when companies rate in VA, since without knowing (A) amerage, it could different?

Blu-Raider · 05-25-2009, 10:28 PM

What I'm trying to tell you is that your loads (AVR, Blu-ray, PS3 etc.) are all rated by their watt consumption. VA or kVA is a meaningless number for your purposes. Add them all up and compare it to the UPS available output in watts. The run time of the UPS is rated at full load. Any less available power (watts) consumed by your devices adds to this.

ifuwereahotdog · 05-25-2009, 10:45 PM

Thats what I was saying at first, VA is a meaningless number. The company making the UPS will already add the power factor in, i.e. 1285VA is actually 750W, or .6 X 1285VA. kVA is definitely a useless number because then you would be in the thousands of watts. I think were both right, isn't electricity fun

BTW, I just dropped you a 10 on your setup. You have nice equipment!

Blu-Raider · 05-25-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifuwereahotdog

BTW, I just dropped you a 10 on your setup. You have nice equipment!

Thank you very much for the comment and rating. I graduated with an Electrical Engineering degree in 1981, so I'm probably one of the older geezers on the board.

Love the camera collection, btw.

ifuwereahotdog · 05-25-2009, 11:06 PM

Electrical engineer since 81...I need to just shut up about electricity now. You could have schooled me if you wanted to. I appreciate you not doing so

.

I can't take credit for the cameras. They are the wife's. Its not that great...more cameras = less space for A/V gear

.

ifuwereahotdog · 05-27-2009, 11:53 PM

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I came across this forum on Mike Holts website, if you don't know Mike Holt, he is basically a genius with electricity. I pasted this in from there...

Quote:

Most UPS units are designed to operate electronic equipment that usually includes a switch-mode power supply.

The switch-mode power supply, when viewed as a load, is neither capacitive nor inductive, but non-linear. A switch-mode power supply draws current in short pulses that are not in phase with the line voltage.
This can cause the Power Factor to be less than 100% in the same way that an inductive (motor) load can.
The volt-amps (product of RMS volts x RMS amps) is considerable higher than the watts (real power consumed), and thus the Power Factor is less than 100%, typically around 60 to 70%.

Many UPS manufacturers assume the load Power Factor to be 60% for lower rated units, and 80% for their larger rated units.

600 va X .6 = 360 watts

This is a difficult subject to try to explain in a forum such as this. It takes my students a week to understand it.

05-20-2009, 11:55 PM	#1
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	Let's talk UPS These storms we're getting in the local Tampa Bay have been worrying me. No power outages yet knock on wood but I don't want to take chances for another year. I don't have a ground plug on my power outlet on the wall but I'm not going to try to get an updated one installed any time soon. I'm thinking about getting a UPS and then connecting that to a APC power conditioner for all my equipment. Any suggestions? It will have to be able to power all of my equipment; projector, TV, receiver, PS3, ect. I don't want find that the UPS cannot handle all that. If it doesn't matter, I'll get one of these.

05-21-2009, 03:24 AM	#7
vega2K Blu-ray Samurai Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2009 Home Theater Gallery:68 Blu-ray collection:345 Trading Score:228	My biggest concern is my Projector, so here's what I did: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=25 I figured the other gear is covered at least with Surge Protection. If my PJ bulb blows, that'a about $400! Check out this thread for more info: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=97906 Last edited by vega2K; 05-21-2009 at 03:26 AM.

05-21-2009, 03:36 AM	#8
Cpus456 Member Member since:May 2009 Location:Toronto, Canada Home Theater Gallery:74 Blu-ray collection:1	I got one for my DLP projector picked one up at the source for 20 bucks - it was clearance. My optoma has a critical 6 sec count down before completely tums off. Its my understanding that you can pop the bulb with out proper cool down A ups is a small investment to protect you projo

05-25-2009, 04:59 AM	#14
DIY_HD Active Member Member since:Jun 2008 Location:Atlanta, GA Home Theater Gallery:21 4K collection:4 Blu-ray collection:88 DVD collection:126 Blu-ray reviews:2	No Ground, No Protection Driver, as I understand it, surge protectors (and power conditioners) rely on a ground to vent excess voltage. If you have no ground, no surge protector will protect your equipment. You are right to be concerned about your sensitive electronics. We're not talking about 60-watt light bulbs here. You may be able to provide a ground by running a conductor from your outlet to a spike in the ground outside. I believe you will need a copper rod driven about 3-4 feet into the ground. But I wouldn't stop there. Near strikes of lightning can back up voltage through the ground via this conduit. I would add a lightning arrestor in this ground line. You will also need a 2-prong to 3-prong adapter with a grounding tab. As for UPS protection, these will maintain power to your equipment long enough to shut them down gracefully. However, I believe these also require a ground to protect your equipment from voltage spikes and surges. I realize budget is an issue, but at the very least, get a good surge protector (or power conditioner) and a ground wire with a lightning arrestor. If you are worried about your equipment not being protected, you should be. It's not. Last edited by DIY_HD; 05-25-2009 at 05:01 AM. Reason: Added adapter info

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05-20-2009, 11:58 PM	#2
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	for all of your equipment you might need more than 300VA. Cyberpower CP1500AVRLCD UPS

05-21-2009, 12:09 AM	#3
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	I figured that Crackin. Now that I think about it, a power conditioner may not really be necessary along with a UPS but I do want to spend as little as possible. I have a big vacation coming up next month and will be gone for 3 weeks. I will most likely keep everything unplugged but these storms are worrying me. Is that one of the best UPS sets out there? I don't know too much about UPS systems, at least buying wise.

05-21-2009, 12:12 AM	#4
crackinhedz Super Moderator Member since:Feb 2007 Home Theater Gallery:10 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:19	you don't really need an UPS, unless there are things you would like to shut down manually, such as a PC or a DLP to let the bulb cool down. You should be just fine with one of those APC power conditioners.

05-21-2009, 12:13 AM	#5
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	Well, I do have the projector...

05-21-2009, 12:14 AM	#6
phantompwr Active Member Member since:Apr 2008 Location:Cape Cod, MA Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray collection:63	You need this: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...m?base_sku=S15 However I think if you pick and choose which items are on the UPS, and just use a conditioner for the rest, you could get away with using a small battery backup system and spending less money

05-21-2009, 10:01 PM	#10
ifuwereahotdog Active Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:St. Louis, MO Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews:2	Well, like crakinhedz said 300VA is not enough. I have a 1285VA UPS and that will only power my TV and PS3 (its really only 750W). VA in the electrical industry is watts ---> V (volts) times A (amps)...but in this case you need to take the VA times .6 to give you watts. Or .8 depending on the company doing the calculation. Do you have all your gear plugged into 1 outlet at it stands right now? And have you ever blown your breaker? I would guess that all your gear is pushing your breaker to near it's max, depending on what you have on at once, and what kind of TV and projector you have. Bottom line, you are going to need a UPS sized at around 3000VA if everything is running at the same time for the UPS not to trip. But the hightest I would go is probably somewhere around 2500VA to be safe.

05-22-2009, 04:38 PM	#11
vicdog Member Member since:Apr 2009 Blu-ray collection:15	How do you plan to connect the three prong plugs to the two prong outlet? These devices rely on a solid ground to protect your equipment. You may want to look into a surge protector at the main panel also.

05-24-2009, 07:20 PM	#12
Driver_King Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Tampa Bay, Florida Home Theater Gallery:96 Blu-ray collection:28 Trading Score:10	Look at this. Monoprice sells a UPS backup/power conditioner for $175! I also noticed they sell a new line of speakers. I may have to get some of those in wall speakers for the living room.

05-25-2009, 10:28 PM	#16
Blu-Raider Expert Member Member since:Dec 2007 Location:Dark Side of the Moon Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:64 Blu-ray reviews:2	What I'm trying to tell you is that your loads (AVR, Blu-ray, PS3 etc.) are all rated by their watt consumption. VA or kVA is a meaningless number for your purposes. Add them all up and compare it to the UPS available output in watts. The run time of the UPS is rated at full load. Any less available power (watts) consumed by your devices adds to this.

05-25-2009, 10:45 PM	#17
ifuwereahotdog Active Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:St. Louis, MO Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews:2	Thats what I was saying at first, VA is a meaningless number. The company making the UPS will already add the power factor in, i.e. 1285VA is actually 750W, or .6 X 1285VA. kVA is definitely a useless number because then you would be in the thousands of watts. I think were both right, isn't electricity fun BTW, I just dropped you a 10 on your setup. You have nice equipment!

05-25-2009, 11:06 PM	#19
ifuwereahotdog Active Member Member since:Sep 2008 Location:St. Louis, MO Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:44 Blu-ray reviews:2	Electrical engineer since 81...I need to just shut up about electricity now. You could have schooled me if you wanted to. I appreciate you not doing so . I can't take credit for the cameras. They are the wife's. Its not that great...more cameras = less space for A/V gear .

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