5.1 Analog Connections - What's Involved?

[Chris Beveridge]

I've always kept to optical connectivity for my hardware (sony str-de835 receiver) simply because I liked having one cable and "digital" transmission.

The new formats are making me curious for the 5.1 analog though since the uncompressed would sound better through it and so forth. What kind of cabling is actually required? And overall, what is the benefit of analog over the optical?

[Josh]

Analog out means that the player is internally decoding the audio, running it through a DAC, and then outputting it as analog to your reciever. PCM can be passed via analog or HDMI. The advantage is that if you don't have a receiver which decodes the new audio formats, you can have the player do it and pass the uncompressed audio to the reciever to output. Using optical (or coax) means you are passing the bit stream to the reciever to decode, run through a DAC, and output as analog.

It just lets you determine where you want to decode the audio. PCM doesn't need to be decoded at all, so it makes no difference.

[theknub]

while i don't have any devices aside from my receiver for 5.1, the plugs look simply like rca connectors. i'm sure you could prob use (while not recomended) some standard rca cables but i'd recomend something that is rated for the load handling etc etc

[gblaue]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

What kind of cabling is actually required? And overall, what is the benefit of analog over the optical?

Ahh, the old cable questions again. Good cable are fine. You don't need to spend a lot of $$$.

The biggest advantage will fall to which component, dvd player or reciever, has the best D/A converters and how well it's audio chain was designed. Just my opinion, whichever says it has Burr-Brown DACs, that's my choice.

[WriteSimply]

Good analog cables need not be expensive. So long as the cable and interconnects are good, that's all you need. The shorter the cables, the better; and that usually means that you can get cheap, shielded cables instead of expensive ones.

PCM through HDMI is preferred if you have a HDMI receiver/preamp. All the player does is decode the PCM (for TrueHD/DTS HDMA) and then pass it through the HDMI without going through the DA process. If it's already in PCM, it's the same; think digital out for a CD player.

If you like your current analog-only receiver and it's not deteriorating, use the analog out. If you're upgrading anyway, audition a few new HDMI ones.


fuad

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

Good analog cables need not be expensive. So long as the cable and interconnects are good, that's all you need. The shorter the cables, the better; and that usually means that you can get cheap, shielded cables instead of expensive ones.

I agree, though some other audiophiles might not. Personally, I'm in the camp that says interconnects do not affect the sound. I have never heard a difference between one brand and another, as long as you're talking about well made, heavy gauge interconnects. I know a lot of audiophiles deride Monster, but to me a good set of Monster 400mkII's is all you need.

PCM through HDMI is preferred if you have a HDMI receiver/preamp.

Not necessarily,. It depends on which component has the better quality analogue stage. For instance, my Sony XA9000ES SACD/CD player sounds far better playing CDs through its own analogue outs than using the digital out to my DA4ES A/VR. I have also tried its DSD out over FireWire to the Sony flagship A/VR (I forget the model number right now) that does DSD decoding over FireWire, and still preferred the sound of the player doing the decoding itself through the analogue outs.

Of course, if you want to do additional DSP processing to the sound, then HDMI into an A/VR or Pre/Pro is the only way to go.

All the player does is decode the PCM (for TrueHD/DTS HDMA) and then pass it through the HDMI without going through the DA process. If it's already in PCM, it's the same; think digital out for a CD player.

True, but either way the signal will eventually have to go through a DAC and be converted to analogue. Which sounds better is highly dependent on the quality of the DACs and the quality of the analogue stage in each unit.

If you like your current analog-only receiver and it's not deteriorating, use the analog out. If you're upgrading anyway, audition a few new HDMI ones.


fuad

Very good advice.

[JTK]

Someone mentioned cables, so:

www.monoprice.com
www.ramelectronics.net

Don't get ripped off.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by JTK

Someone mentioned cables, so:

www.monoprice.com
www.ramelectronics.net

Don't get ripped off.

There's also:

http://www.bettercables.com/

Though they can get a bit dear.

[Longshot]

As I understand it you can only get Tru-HD or uncompressed PCM through analogue or HDMI. I've been hounding JTK about this the past few weeks. I was lucky enough to get Batman Begins last week before it actually went on sale. This disc is really the only reason I bought HD DVD. Anyway I cannot get Tru-HD because my Lexicon MC-1 does not have analogue input or HDMI.
The sound was still incredible but I have the nawing feeling I'm missing out.

I hope to get a PS3 at launch and if not possibly the Sony player. Even if both have HDMI 1.3 I will need to upgrade to a different processor/receiver to take full advantage of the advanced audio codecs. This starts to add up very quickly. When I have friends over I'm going to start saying, "Hello, my name is John and I'm and HD addict".

[Kenshiro]

Originally Posted by Longshot

As I understand it you can only get Tru-HD or uncompressed PCM through analogue or HDMI. I've been hounding JTK about this the past few weeks. I was lucky enough to get Batman Begins last week before it actually went on sale. This disc is really the only reason I bought HD DVD. Anyway I cannot get Tru-HD because my Lexicon MC-1 does not have analogue input or HDMI.
The sound was still incredible but I have the nawing feeling I'm missing out.

I hope to get a PS3 at launch and if not possibly the Sony player. Even if both have HDMI 1.3 I will need to upgrade to a different processor/receiver to take full advantage of the advanced audio codecs. This starts to add up very quickly. When I have friends over I'm going to start saying, "Hello, my name is John and I'm and HD addict".

To take full advantage of a player that decodes TrueHD, like the ps3 via HDMI 1.3, does the receiver have to be HDMI 1.3 also? Or can any receiver that has an HDMI input process TrueHD if it is already decoded by the player? Does that make sense?

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Kenshiro

To take full advantage of a player that decodes TrueHD, like the ps3 via HDMI 1.3, does the receiver have to be HDMI 1.3 also? Or can any receiver that has an HDMI input process TrueHD if it is already decoded by the player? Does that make sense?

This is sort of two or three different questions. With the PS3, AFAIK, you will not only need an A/VR with HDMI 1.3, but also one capable of decoding the new audio codecs. Now, if the player itself can decode the audio codecs and pass them as PCM over HDMI, then all you would need is a receiver with HDMI 1.1 capable of accepting multichannel LPCM.

There is also the possibility that the player itself will decode the codecs and pass it, full resolution, through the analogue outs. In this situation, all you will need is a receiver or pre/pro with analogue multichannel inputs - anywhere from 5.1 to 7.1 - to listen to the new codecs.

I'm not sure which category the PS3 falls into as far as what it passes over HDMI, but I do know that it doesn't have analogue multichannel outputs, so HDMI in some incarnation will be required to listen to any of the new codecs in multichannel. The new Panasonic includes a registration card in the box to receive a future firmware upgrade (around January '07) to enable decoding of the new lossless audio codecs, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, in the box so you will be able to use the 7.1 analogue outs to listen to them. It's uncertain if this will also enable passing the decoded signal as PCM over HDMI, but it makes sense that it would.

[Kenshiro]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

This is sort of two or three different questiosn. With the PS3, AFAIK, you will not only need an A/VR with HDMI 1.3, but also one capable of decoding the new audio codecs. Now, if the player itself can decode the audio codecs and pass them as PCM over HDMI, then all you would need is a receiver with HDMI 1.1 capable of accepting multichannel LPCM.

There is also the possibility that the player itself will decode the codecs and pass it, full resolution, through the analogue outs. In this situation, all you will need is a receiver or pre/pro with analogue multichannel inputs - anywhere from 5.1 to 7.1 - to listen to the new codecs.

I'm not sure which category the PS3 falls into as far as what it passes over HDMI, but I do know that it doesn't have analogue multichannel outputs, so HDMI in some incarnation will be required to listen to any of the new codecs in multichannel. The new Panasonic includes a registration card in the box to receive a future firmware upgrade (around January '07) to enable decoding of the new lossless audio codecs, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, in the box so you will be able to use the 7.1 analogue outs to listen to them. It's uncertain if this will also enable passing the decoded signal as PCM over HDMI, but it makes sense that it would.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I heard that the PS3 will decode trueHD internally, but not DTS-HD MA.

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/100506ps3dolby/

Not saying they can't be wrong though, because other reports I've read only said that it will support trueHD. Which I think would be misleading if it just passes the signal along to be decoded by a receiver that doesn't exist yet. So by what you say, HDMI 1.1 should be good enough if the player has a built in decoder.

Since the OP mentioned Optical connection, I wonder what are the limits of that transmission? I've used it for several devices and it seems ok, but some people call it crap.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Kenshiro

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I heard that the PS3 will decode trueHD internally, but not DTS-HD MA.

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/100506ps3dolby/

Not saying they can't be wrong though, because other reports I've read only said that it will support trueHD. Which I think would be misleading if it just passes the signal along to be decoded by a receiver that doesn't exist yet. So by what you say, HDMI 1.1 should be good enough if the player has a built in decoder.

Since the OP mentioned Optical connection, I wonder what are the limits of that transmission? I've used it for several devices and it seems ok, but some people call it crap.

If it is using the optical outs, it will most likely be passing the core DD or core dts signal that any receiver can decode, but not the advanced form of the codecs. Blu-ray allows for the 'core' or standard dts and DD signals to be extracted from Dolby THD and DTS-HD MA programs.