Standard Play Movies

[jefferj16]

It is my hope that consumers start a demand for more standard play movies in the Blu Ray format. There are many who do not find horizontal bars at the top and bottom of flat screens to be appealing. Some can live with it. I very much dislike it. In the late 50s and early 60s, when movies were being shown as "widescreen," if horizontal bars were shown, they would be during the approximate first 3 or 4 minutes of a movie and then they would be gone.

Give the people either one of two choices. Release each movie in a standard and widescreen format or include both formats in each movie and charge a little more money. There seems to be no apparent explanation, as to why a movie like "Journey To the Center of the Earth" (2007), was released in a standard format, while a movie like "Taken" was released in a widescreen format. It is my hope that you feel the same way I do, but how can our voices be heard without paying thousands of dollars to do so? Any one have any suggestions?

joe.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Welcome to Blu-ray.com jefferj16!

For a first post you've certainly chosen one that will get responses that will mostly disagree with your wants. Our members here are all about presenting a movie in its OAR (Original Aspect Ratio) and that will include your objection at having to see black bars. Here is a really good article about Aspect Ratios - The Director's Vision and I suggest you read through it. It shows you all of the various examples and the differences.

John

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

It is my hope that consumers start a demand for more standard play movies in the Blu Ray format. There are many who do not find horizontal bars at the top and bottom of flat screens to be appealing. Some can live with it. I very much dislike it. In the late 50s and early 60s, when movies were being shown as "widescreen," if horizontal bars were shown, they would be during the approximate first 3 or 4 minutes of a movie and then they would be gone.

Give the people either one of two choices. Release each movie in a standard and widescreen format or include both formats in each movie and charge a little more money. There seems to be no apparent explanation, as to why a movie like "Journey To the Center of the Earth" (2007), was released in a standard format, while a movie like "Taken" was released in a widescreen format. It is my hope that you feel the same way I do, but how can our voices be heard without paying thousands of dollars to do so? Any one have any suggestions?

joe.

Yeah, check out the link that John72953 provided. It should help you understand this.

The bottom line though is that there isn't one standard aspect ratio for "widescreen". There are varying levels of "wideness" which is why you still see some black bars with some movies on current 16:9 "widescreen" TVs, but not on others. Technically those movies that are filling up your HDTV would still have black bars at the top and bottom of the screen if viewed on and old standard 4:3 TV.

There is a thread somewhere around here about a company (I think it was Philips, but I could be wrong on that) making an HDTV that is wider so that for those movies that you are seeing the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen on current standard HDTVs fill up the whole screen.

However, the only problem with that is when watching any 16:9 content (or in other words content that would currently fill up current standard models of HDTVs... including many movies and most all Hi-Def TV programming) would end up having vertical black bars on the sides of that bigger screen going up and down.

So, depending on your viewing habbits, if you watch a lot of television in hi-def and watch a lot of movies (many of which are in the 16:9 ratio), you might be spending more time seeing these vertical black bars on this special kind of wider HDTV than you would watching the horizontal ones on most typical HDTVs.


It boils down to a matter of preference. While that wider TV would be nice, it does worry me based on an experience that I had with my current HDTV.

My wife and I went through a period where we were watching a lot of 4:3 content (mainly older TV shows on DVD) on our 16:9 HDTV, with vertical black bars on the sides. We probably went a good week or two with watching barely any content that filled up the whole screen. Then when we finally did, I found that we had an issue with "temporary image retention" on the left side of the TV where one of the black bars had been.

Basically, that section of the content filling up the screen appeared a little darker than the rest due to some after-the-fact retention of the black bar image. Luckily we have an LCD HDTV, so this wasn't permanent burn-in. However, it took quite a while for it to go away, and I even got this special DVD designed to help get rid of retention and burn-in images on various types of HDTVs.

Since then, we tend to watch most standard-def 4:3 content (especially anything that we are just putting on in the background) semi-stretched out just to avoid this issue from happening again.

It's not a big deal if we have black bars on the screen for a couple of hours or so, but I don't want them on there ongoingly across the board for the majority of the content that we watch.

So, for this reason, I would be hesitant to get that wider type of TV, out of fear that with most newer content being 16:9, those ends of the screen would have nothing but black displayed on them far too often.

I like OAR and do not want movies altered just to fit my screen, but I would like my screen to be the appropriate ratio to fit the majority of the newer content that is being made, which it currently is.

[BaronVH]

I know many people would want fullscreen titles, but if a video company came in and edited or changed spoken lines or deleted scenes people would scream bloody murder. I see no difference in Pan and Scan. I think the OAR should be the only version, period. I too had issues with 4:3 pillars causing image retention, but we are more careful now. Learn to love the real movie, not the cut up one.

[jefferj16]

...Nice. I appreciate that, John. However, I think that people should be given an option as to how they want to see movies. Once again, while enjoying movies in the movie houses in the late 50s and early 60s, people could enjoy the widescreen experience without having to see "black bars." When the VHS and BETA formats existed in conjunction with VCRs, we experienced FULL screens. The dimensions of Flat Screen TVs SHOULD HAVE been made to accomodate ANY widescreen format WITHOUT black bars, just as was done in the movie houses.

I'm not saying to eliminate widescren in its original content, which is not obviously going to happen. All I am saying is to give people a choice of what they are use to, a FULL SCREEN EXPERIENCE or on the other hand, a WIDESCREEN experience, instead of ramming ONE down the throats of the people.

P.S.: The Blu Ray Association has also made darn sure that you cannot use the "ZOOM" function at 16:9, while using either HDMI or Component Video. By taking away these options, what message is being conveyed?

joe.

[gearyt]

Originally Posted by jefferj16;2060852.

The dimensions of Flat Screen TVs SHOULD HAVE been made to accomodate ANY widescreen format WITHOUT black bars, just as was done in the movie houses.
joe.

hmmm, think about it... a flat screen with curtains

[benricci]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

When the VHS and BETA formats existed in conjunction with VCRs, we experienced FULL screens.

No, we experienced improperly framed movies. We've moved beyond that, you should join us.

[jefferj16]

I'll ignore the comment by "Gearyt." However, I am not going to join the viewpoint in favor of something that is not appealing to me. We're the 21st century, this is not 1941.

joe.

[UFAlien]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

P.S.: The Blu Ray Association has also made darn sure that you cannot use the "ZOOM" function at 16:9, while using either HDMI or Component Video.

Ummm... there are people here who do that all the time. Also, it's been explained that the "one TV, no black bars" thing is physically impossible. Try reading the responses in your own thread, mmmkay?

[benricci]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

We're the 21st century, this is not 1941.

Precisely. Join the times.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

The dimensions of Flat Screen TVs SHOULD HAVE been made to accomodate ANY widescreen format WITHOUT black bars, just as was done in the movie houses.

And how exactly would you propose that to work? That's like asking McDonalds to find a way so that the EXACT same amount of liquid will fill both their Large and Small soda cups up all of the way to the brim, without leaving any empty space in the cup and without having any liquid spill over the side. They are two different sized cups.. it just can't be done. Or, what I guess would be a bit more accurate of a comparison to the issue at hand here... having 2 different amounts of liquid (let's say 20 ounces and 30 ounces) each fill up the same sized cup equally without leaving any empty space and without spilling over.

Short of there being curtains that cover up the black portions of the screen for those movies/shows that leave black bars, some kind of motorized moving plastic pieces that cover up the black bar areas and then open up for movies that fill up the whole screen, or a TV with a screen that magically changes shape to accomodate what you are watching, that's just not going to happen.

These "movies houses" your refer to weren't magical or anything. Often times they would have curtains that could cover up unused portions of the screen (if those portions were on the sides), creating the illusion that the screen is filled up. Or places may project a wider image in a way where parts of the image are offscreen and you are effectively losing them (the same as you would in Pan & Scan situations where portions of the movie are cut off to fill a specific type of TV screen).

And sometimes, in addition to these methods, they might leave a small portion of the screen unused, but given the general nature and darkness of movie theaters, it's just not as blatantly noticable as it is with the TV screen sitting in your home. I've been in theaters where the entire screen isn't being 100% used. But it's so dark in the theater and I am so focued on watching the movie (which in general is still being projected very large, thus not making it obvious that the whole screen isn't being used unless you are really paying attention to it) that the unused portion of the screen kind of just blends in with the rest of the wall.

There's no way to make two different movies with two different aspect ratios fit and fill the same screen with no visible black bars short of cropping the picture, warping/stretching the picture, and/or covering up the black bars with some kind of physical object(s) for whichever movie doesn't naturally fit the screen as-is.

Movies on VHS and Beta were almost always cropped (aka Pan & Scanned) so that portions (in some cases rather large portions... particularly for those movies in which you still see some black bars on current HDTVs) of the picture were completely cut off on the sides to make the movie fit the TV screen without having to have black bars.

You obviously aren't comprehending how this works.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

I'll ignore the comment by "Gearyt." However, I am not going to join the viewpoint in favor of something that is not appealing to me. We're the 21st century, this is not 1941.

joe.

And in 1941 censorship was the norm. I do not want anybody but the director changing the movie. If the director says that they intend it to be one ratio over the other, then I will accept that. But don't change my movie.

[benricci]

The OP needs to look into a Constant Image Height (CIH) projector system if watching 2.40:1 films on his TV is that much of a bother.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=554901

Enjoy...

[kpkelley]

If you are so adverse to black bars, just get a nice CIH projection system with automasking and be done with it.

[My_Two_Cents]

Seriously, where do people like this come from? Why is this concept sooooooo difficult for for some to grasp? Make TV's that will accomodate all of the different aspect ratios? Seriously?

I don't watch the darkness around my set, I watch the movie.

Great first thread.... I always thought first threads were reviewed and accepted prior to being posted for the general population? This one should have simply been merged with any of the other mindless 'I hate black bars and think all movies should be made to accomodate MY TV' threads.

[serenityjayne]

Originally Posted by Ricshoe

Great first thread.... I always thought first threads were reviewed and accepted prior to being posted for the general population? This one should have simply been merged with any of the other mindless 'I hate black bars and think all movies should be made to accomodate MY TV' threads.

Oh, no. That was what I was going to title *my* first thread! Now what will I do? J/K

I'm all about the OAR. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't get excited when a movie does fill the screen (A Bug's Life), but that's certainly not my only consideration. I'm a firm believer in following the original vision of a film.

[benricci]

Director Sydney Pollack explains why you should not use "Zoom" to get out of the black bars:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEPAg...eature=related

Enjoy...

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

If you are so adverse to black bars, just get a nice CIH projection system with automasking and be done with it.

That would certainly solve the OP's problems, without sacrificing PQ

[Batman1980]

All I can say to this is

[Valkyr47]

Originally Posted by jefferj16

...Nice. I appreciate that, John. However, I think that people should be given an option as to how they want to see movies. Once again, while enjoying movies in the movie houses in the late 50s and early 60s, people could enjoy the widescreen experience without having to see "black bars." When the VHS and BETA formats existed in conjunction with VCRs, we experienced FULL screens. The dimensions of Flat Screen TVs SHOULD HAVE been made to accomodate ANY widescreen format WITHOUT black bars, just as was done in the movie houses.

I'm not saying to eliminate widescren in its original content, which is not obviously going to happen. All I am saying is to give people a choice of what they are use to, a FULL SCREEN EXPERIENCE or on the other hand, a WIDESCREEN experience, instead of ramming ONE down the throats of the people.

P.S.: The Blu Ray Association has also made darn sure that you cannot use the "ZOOM" function at 16:9, while using either HDMI or Component Video. By taking away these options, what message is being conveyed?

joe.

i disagree

i dont believe YOU should get to see the movie the way YOU want, its not about you

If you wanted to see the mona lisa with a purple hat on, does that mean the museum should paint one in?

no, its all about the directors vision, movies are art just like paintings

basically its up to you to appreciate the art, or find art that you happen to like (aka movies shot in 16x9)

normally choice is not a bad thing, in this case there simply should be no choice, watch it the way the director intended, or dont watch at all