Transformers audio question

[saprano]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Transformers was verified on another forum by a sound mixer who actually worked on it, who noted that a lot of bass in that film was sent to the main channels and people who didn't have their systems set up correctly would think it didn't have enough bass.

So people who had their speakers set to small, i.e almost everybody, wasn't getting all the bass? why would the mixer do that?

Well that explains why i thought the bass was lacking.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by saprano

So people who had their speakers set to small, i.e almost everybody, wasn't getting all the bass? why would the mixer do that?

Well that explains why i thought the bass was lacking.

Because the subwoofer/LFE channel is not the only source and method for bass in soundtracks.
A full range speaker is capable of delivering lower frequencies on its own. The LFE Channel is specifically there for even lower frequencies the other channels are not capable of performing without damaging the speakers.

If you are "not getting all the bass" and you do have full range speakers, it's time to do a little bit of bass management. Maybe someone else can advise you better here.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by saprano

So people who had their speakers set to small, i.e almost everybody, wasn't getting all the bass? why would the mixer do that?

Well that explains why i thought the bass was lacking.

No.

1) people who had their speakers set to LARGE who don't have full range speakers would be noticing a reduction in bass.
2) people who had their speakers set to SMALL and don't have a decent sub would be noticing a reduction in bass.
3) If people thought the bass was lacking...why did the Ironhide Flip handily win the "Best bass scene" poll in the eD contest poll?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

No.

1) people who had their speakers set to LARGE who don't have full range speakers would be noticing a reduction in bass.
2) people who had their speakers set to SMALL and don't have a decent sub would be noticing a reduction in bass.
3) If people thought the bass was lacking...why did the Ironhide Flip handily win the "Best bass scene" poll in the eD contest poll?

Wow. That is excellent information there! Thanks a lot!
Also, where can I find this poll that you're referring to?

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

After playing some lossless audio tracks on my new receiver, I have to say that I prefer PCM and DTS-MA to TrueHD. TrueHD sounds great, don't get me wrong, but the volume levels seem too low and it seems to overall lack a bit of the punch that comes with the other encodes. Don't get me wrong, they still sound wonderful, but everyone has preferences with practically everything, so why should this be any different.

Volume matching is one thing. Did you turn off DRC on the TrueHD track?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by BozQ

where can I find this poll that you're referring to?

Here ya go! - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=101064

45 scenes to choose from, Ironhide Flip got 19% (539) of the 2828 votes.
The Dark Knight hospital explosion was 2nd (TrueHD) with 197 votes and U-571's Depth Charge scenes (got my vote) got 192 votes, dts-ma.

So the top voted scene was a Dolby TrueHD scene and got nearly two times the votes of the top dts-ma or PCM scene.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the codec and everything to do with the mix and the scene!!

[BozQ]

Man. My favourite is not in that list!
And nobody even mentioned it!

What about Scorponok jumping out of the sand? Now THAT blew me off my seat when I watched in the cinemas. And I was so happy to experience that again with the second film.

Ok...getting OT. I'll stop here.

Thanks for the link!

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by BozQ

Wow. That is excellent information there! Thanks a lot!
Also, where can I find this poll that you're referring to?

Volume matching is one thing. Did you turn off DRC on the TrueHD track?

Yes, I have DRC turned off. It makes a world of difference with TrueHD tracks.

Originally Posted by BIslander

Did you volume match in a way that allows you to switch seamlessly between the two versions without needing to adjust either on the fly? That's really the only way to do meaningful comparisons. And, of course, you need to do this as blind testing, preferably where the person doing the playback also doesn't know which version is being played. At the end of the day, home tests that most of us do lack scientific controls.

Yes, I volume matched as I stated in the post you quoted.

In comparison to the Close Encounters comparison, the reviewer on this site found the PCM on The Fifth Element to be superior to the TrueHD.

In theory, these tracks should sound the same, but the reality of the situation is somewhat different. For whatever reason, I found the PCM track to be much more robust and natural. There is a slight variance in volume between the two tracks, with the TrueHD track being slightly softer. Once volume corrections have been made, the PCM track was still superior in many ways to Dolby's new audio format. In addition to the aforementioned richness and intensity of the PCM track, I also found dialog to be a bit more crisp and the entire soundstage more enveloping with PCM. I have no idea why this might be the case, and it remains to be seen on future releases whether this disparity shows up again.

In the case of The Fifth Element, I maintain that sticking with PCM will render the best audio results. It should also be noted that Dolby’s notorious Dialog Normalization is not active on Sony Blu-ray releases, so this would not account for the slight differences in the two soundtracks. Both tracks do provide amazing low frequency effects and a visceral improvement over standard Dolby Digital. The Fifth Element comes highly recommended.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...56&show=review

I'm not getting into this whole juvenile bickering, I'm just saying that to my ears on my system, DTS-MA and PCM sound more clear and defined, that's all.

[BozQ]

Well, to be fair, we don't really know if the PCM and the TrueHD track were from the same master.
On the other hand, I am starting to grow suspicious of Dolby TrueHD decoders.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

In comparison to the Close Encounters comparison, the reviewer on this site found the PCM on The Fifth Element to be superior to the TrueHD.



https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movie...56&show=review

I'm not getting into this whole juvenile bickering, I'm just saying that to my ears on my system, DTS-MA and PCM sound more clear and defined, that's all.

The two tracks are different though are they not? They aren't even the same bit depth. Did the geek ever comment on this one? Plus I thought it was soon AFTER this that Sony turned off DN...am I also wrong there?

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by BozQ

On the other hand, I am starting to grow suspicious of Dolby TrueHD decoders.

I'm suspicious of everyone...

[AnimeOnBlu]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The two tracks are different though are they not? They aren't even the same bit depth. Did the geek ever comment on this one? Plus I thought it was soon AFTER this that Sony turned off DN...am I also wrong there?

I saw a disc scan of CEot3K and both the TrueHD and DTS-HD MA track were 48/24.

[AnimeOnBlu]

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

He was talking about Fifth Element.

As for Braveheart not having DTS-HD MA, it's probably due to the fact that Braveheart was finished before Paramout went with DTS.

My mistake. 5th Element had a 16bit PCM and 20bit TrueHD iirc.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by AnimeOnBlu

My mistake. 5th Element had a 16bit PCM and 20bit TrueHD iirc.

I think you're right...

Which would mean they're obviously different so you can't really take a reviewer saying PCM is better than Dolby TrueHD on one specific title where they're not the same, and then say that ALL Dolby TrueHD tracks are inferior.

I personally want to hear these people's systems that claim DTS-HD MA is better. I have had no issues at all with Dolby TrueHD at all so I don't see why there's this support for DTS-HD MA. They sound exactly the same to me but maybe it's because when a movie has bad sound, I blame the mix and not the codec. Back in the days of DVD, I understand the support for the 1.5mbps DTS tracks as most of those tracks were actually supperior to the 448kbps Dolby tracks (at least to my ears). This is a whole different ball game. Though I think that people are still carrying over the belief that DTS is better because of the days of DVD.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Yes, I volume matched as I stated in the post you quoted.

I asked how you volume matched - did you do it in a way that allows you to switch seamlessly back and forth without making any adjustments when switching? I can't do that with my equipment. Very few people can. What did you do to accomplish such a set-up?

In comparison to the Close Encounters comparison, the reviewer on this site found the PCM on The Fifth Element to be superior to the TrueHD.

I don't dispute what the reviewer heard. Personally, I would like to know whether the PCM and TrueHD versions came from the same master (EDIT: apparently not) and I'd like to know what equipment and audio-setups the reviewer used and how he did his comparisons. Any idea who the reviewer is and his technical credentials? Those all seem to be important factors in a discussion like this one.

I'm not getting into this whole juvenile bickering, I'm just saying that to my ears on my system, DTS-MA and PCM sound more clear and defined, that's all.

Bickering? Not with me, I hope. My post was about the method you used to reach your conclusion.