Processing of analog 5.1 or PCM 5.1

[mla]

Are there receivers that can process analog 5.1, so that they make bass management and room acoustics correction and turn 5.1 into 6.1 or 7.1?

If not, i will have to change my SACD/DVDA player and Blu-ray player. But...

Are there receivers that can process PCM 5.1 in described way?
Maybe Onkyo 605?

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by mla

Are there receivers that can process analog 5.1, so that they make bass management and room acoustics correction and turn 5.1 into 6.1 or 7.1?

If not, i will have to change my SACD/DVDA player and Blu-ray player. But...

Are there receivers that can process PCM 5.1 in described way?
Maybe Onkyo 605?

for analog, I dont know if they can turn 5.1 into 6 or 7.1 (not sure if any reciever can??)...

for pcm, the onkyo 605 will not turn 5.1 into 6 or 7.1 (805 definitely will, and maybe even the new 705, but since its new I dont know)

[mla]

How can I be sure for Onkyo 805? Do you have a direct experience, or some reliable review?

[crackinhedz]

if youre looking for a reciever at about the same price range as the 605, then look into:

Yamaha RX-V661 ($500)

...this will post process 5.1 linear pcm into 7.1

for analog it says this:

"Multi-channel Analog Input: This unit has a discrete 5.1-channel analog input for accommodating DVD-Audio and Super-Audio CD players or an external decoder. You can convert the input to 7.1-channels, and use an assigned pair of input jacks along with the 5.1-channel input to connect the 7.1-channel device."

[mla]

Thank you, but later I found this:
"Yamaha claims the RX-V661 will accept SACD and multichannel PCM signals over the HDMI connections, but we couldn't get it to work (the HDMI did pass CD and stereo Dolby signals from DVDs). Instead, we opted for the receiver's multichannel analog inputs to listen to a..."
So, it seems Yamaha RX-V661 is not the solution.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by mla

Thank you, but later I found this:
"Yamaha claims the RX-V661 will accept SACD and multichannel PCM signals over the HDMI connections, but we couldn't get it to work (the HDMI did pass CD and stereo Dolby signals from DVDs). Instead, we opted for the receiver's multichannel analog inputs to listen to a..."
So, it seems Yamaha RX-V661 is not the solution.

can you link to this comment?

according to the specifications, it can do most everything. Also, check out this post from avsforum.com

Its a level 6 reciever (highest level)

[mla]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

can you link to this comment?
according to the specifications, it can do most everything. Also, check out this post from avsforum.com

Its a level 6 reciever (highest level)

Yes, it is

http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...-32378947.html

under the title "Performance".

[martinstraka8282]

Originally Posted by mla

Thank you, but later I found this:
"Yamaha claims the RX-V661 will accept SACD and multichannel PCM signals over the HDMI connections, but we couldn't get it to work (the HDMI did pass CD and stereo Dolby signals from DVDs). Instead, we opted for the receiver's multichannel analog inputs to listen to a..."
So, it seems Yamaha RX-V661 is not the solution.

This is not true! I own this receiver and I have SACD and DVD-A through HDMI from my OPPO DV-981HD. All 5.1 speakers light up on the receiver showing that they are getting a 5.1 signal, and then I apply IIx processing on top to get 7.1. For the analog inputs I split the surround speakers and plugged them into the rear surround analog inputs as well as the side surrounds which gets me 7.1 anaolog. You can not adjust anything when using the analog inputs, but the oppo can like most players should be able to. I am very pleased with this receiver which I got for about $400. The only major complaint I have is that to apply 7.1 processing on 5.1 signals you must go about 4 clicks into the menu. Good luck.

[mla]

Originally Posted by martinstraka8282

This is not true! I own this receiver and I have SACD and DVD-A through HDMI from my OPPO DV-981HD. All 5.1 speakers light up on the receiver showing that they are getting a 5.1 signal, and then I apply IIx processing on top to get 7.1. For the analog inputs I split the surround speakers and plugged them into the rear surround analog inputs as well as the side surrounds which gets me 7.1 anaolog. You can not adjust anything when using the analog inputs, but the oppo can like most players should be able to. I am very pleased with this receiver which I got for about $400. The only major complaint I have is that to apply 7.1 processing on 5.1 signals you must go about 4 clicks into the menu. Good luck.

Thank you and sorry for quoting information which was not true. Now I am very interested in that receiver. Could you please help me some more:
1. Can SACD and DVD-A go via analog inputs too (now I have Onkyo 503)?
2. When you say IIx, can it be Neo:6 too?
3. When you split surrounds, does each of them become weaker?
4. Those 4 clicks to apply 7.1 processing on 5.1 - only once or every time?
Thanks in advance!

[martinstraka8282]

Originally Posted by mla

Thank you and sorry for quoting information which was not true. Now I am very interested in that receiver. Could you please help me some more:
1. Can SACD and DVD-A go via analog inputs too (now I have Onkyo 503)?
2. When you say IIx, can it be Neo:6 too?
3. When you split surrounds, does each of them become weaker?
4. Those 4 clicks to apply 7.1 processing on 5.1 - only once or every time?
Thanks in advance!

1. Yes, and you can play audio in the background of a different video source (ie. multi channel music, and video games hdmi)
2. Yes, there is Neo 6, Pro Logic, IIx, Dolby EX, DTS ES.
3. I couldn't really tell since when comparing I would have to reconnect everything and go back to my speakers. I did go into my OPPO DVD menu and turn up the surrounds level though just in case.
4. No, it is every time. This is by far the biggest and possibly only knock on this receiver other than HDMI 1.2. I know a lot of the owners created a macro on their universal remotes to make it 1 button push away. I don't use one and the process bugged me in the beginning, but it no longer bugs me... I just forget to do it sometimes.

Hope this helps, I know I am happy with it, but the 5.1 to 7.1 issue could bother you too much. You should check out the owners thread on AVS forum if you have time for some reading. Good luck!

[MouseRider]

The Lexicon MC-12 or MC-12HD pre/pro will process analog 5.1, PCM 5.1 and bitstream 5.1/6.1 (DD, DTS) signals to 7.1 using their Logic 7 protocol or even 7.2 for stereo sub support.

It also has real-time room acoustic correction through a built-in digital equalizer and a series of microphones that you place in your room.

Unfortunately, it is not a receiver and it isn't in the same ballpark as the Onkyo.

[mla]

Thank you for the info about Lexicon, but can you please tell me a bit more about the difference between receivers and pre/pros. Your last sentence is not quite clear to me.

[MouseRider]

No problem, here's a quick definition...

A modern receiver is an all-in-one unit that has the following:
- Radio (thus its called a receiver)
- Pre-amp (the part that lets you select different inputs)
- Processor (the part that decodes digital formats like PCM and DD)
- Amplifier (the part that amplifies the signal and sends it to your speakers)

A Pre/Pro is a unit that just has a Pre-amp and a Processor component, no radio and no amplifier.

They are used in configurations that are sometimes called "separates" where you split up your system into several basic components so you can use the best component for each function.

[mla]

Thank you very much for your additional explanation. Now I understand your point - Pre/Pro plus amplifier (for radio I don't care too much) must be much more expensive than the receiver alone.

[MouseRider]

It could be but not always more expensive. However, the Lexicon is a pretty expensive piece of equipment.

There are several reasons why separate pre/pro and amplifier setups are superior to integrated amplifiers (which are what receivers without the radio are commonly known), but depending on your situation and requirements, they may not always be relevant or appropriate.

[Glow007]

This may be a stupid question and already addressed but can the onkyo 605 play 7.1 pcm. I am looking to upgrade my reciever as I am currently running with just optical cable for my audio and it sucks...I want the pcm!!!

I am reading about the reciever now and all I see is that it can playback Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD but it doesnt mention PCM.

So again, may be a stupid question because it probably does but I dont wanna buy unless I am sure

Thanks, Glow

[mla]

Originally Posted by Glow007

This may be a stupid question and already addressed but can the onkyo 605 play 7.1 pcm. I am looking to upgrade my reciever as I am currently running with just optical cable for my audio and it sucks...I want the pcm!!!

I am reading about the reciever now and all I see is that it can playback Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD but it doesnt mention PCM.

I've learned so far that players can't send True-HD and DTS-HD to receivers. They decode these formats into PCM and send PCM in that form (digitaly, via HDM 1.1 or higher) or translated into analog form via analog cables. Also, there are no 7.1 recordings yet. The real question is - can the receiver expand 5.1 PCM into 7.1 (surround processing) and can it make simple processing (level trimming - volume balancing, distance adjustment, bass management) and EQ processing (correcting room acoustical problems). I've also read that Onkyo 605 can't do the surround processing of the 5.1 PCM, but that 805 can.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by mla

I've learned so far that players can't send True-HD and DTS-HD to receivers. They decode these formats into PCM and send PCM in that form (digitaly, via HDM 1.1 or higher) or translated into analog form via analog cables. Also, there are no 7.1 recordings yet. The real question is - can the receiver expand 5.1 PCM into 7.1 (surround processing) and can it make simple processing (level trimming - volume balancing, distance adjustment, bass management) and EQ processing (correcting room acoustical problems). I've also read that Onkyo 605 can't do the surround processing of the 5.1 PCM, but that 805 can.

actually, there are a couple 7.1pcm movies out...Lionsgate seems to be ahead of the pack when it comes to this...


yes, the Onkyo TX-SR605 is 7.1PCM capable...

Owners Manual pg.34

Supported Audio Formats -
• 2-channel linear PCM (32–192 kHz, 16/20/24 bit)
• Multichannel linear PCM (7.1 ch, 32–192 kHz)
• Bitstream (Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD
Master Audio)
Your DVD player must also support HDMI output of the above audio formats.



...but...it cannot post process 5.1 into 7.1

[mla]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

actually, there are a couple 7.1pcm movies out...Lionsgate seems to be ahead of the pack when it comes to this...


yes, the Onkyo TX-SR605 is 7.1PCM capable...

Owners Manual pg.34

Supported Audio Formats -
• 2-channel linear PCM (32–192 kHz, 16/20/24 bit)
• Multichannel linear PCM (7.1 ch, 32–192 kHz)
• Bitstream (Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD
Master Audio)
Your DVD player must also support HDMI output of the above audio formats.



...but...it cannot post process 5.1 into 7.1

Thanks for information about existing of the 7.1 movies.
For Onkyo, I meant - expanding 5.1 into 6.1/7.1. That is the central point for me.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by mla

Thanks for information about existing of the 7.1 movies.
For Onkyo, I meant - expanding 5.1 into 6.1/7.1. That is the central point for me.

...thats why I recommended the Yamaha 661, it can post process 5.1pcm into 7.1pcm.


good luck with whichever you go with, both should be great systems.