Receiver to pair w/PS3?

[frank_t]

Hi all -

I have a PS3 and am looking for a new receiver to pair with it.

My needs are specifically a receiver which will accept multi-channel PCM over HDMI.

Also must have:

- 7.1 analog inputs
- at least 2 HDMI inputs and 2 component inputs


Nice to haves would be:

- decoding of new audio formats (DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc...)
- auto-calibration via external mic

I've been looking at the cheaper Onkyo 605 (think I have that model # correct).

It seems very difficult to find any info on receivers which will accept multi-channel PCM over HDMI.

Thanks in advance

[bootman]

Originally Posted by frank_t

Hi all -

I have a PS3 and am looking for a new receiver to pair with it.

My needs are specifically a receiver which will accept multi-channel PCM over HDMI.

Also must have:

- 7.1 analog inputs
- at least 2 HDMI inputs and 2 component inputs


Nice to haves would be:

- decoding of new audio formats (DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD, etc...)
- auto-calibration via external mic

I've been looking at the cheaper Onkyo 605 (think I have that model # correct).

It seems very difficult to find any info on receivers which will accept multi-channel PCM over HDMI.

Thanks in advance

Any HDMI receiver can do PCM multichannel.
That is why current players offer it.
The 605 is a great buy BTW.
However, with a PS3 you will never let the receiver to any of the new decoding because it will not pass them.

[delavoie]

I'm thinking of getting a Yamaha RX-V1800..
It does it all, DTS-MA, True HD ect..

I only have the PS3 for a bd player.. everything will work correctly with the amp right?? PCM, True HD and all those audio features will work fine?

[MacDaddyOJack]

No, the PS3 can't pass those formats so it will not be worth it to buy that reciever(RX-V1800). It's a hell of a reciever though, but go with the Onkyo TX-SR805.... same features, less money and same build quality. I did TONS of research between the two.

If you are still set on getting a new reciever in the hopes that the PS3 will someday pass these audio codecs in bitstream(doubtful) or in the event that you get a standalone, then go with the SR805. I think a standalone would be a good investment too. I have the Samsung 1400 and can't say enough good things about DTS-MA with it paired to my Onkyo SR805!

[delavoie]

Originally Posted by MacDaddyOJack

No, the PS3 can't pass those formats so it will not be worth it to buy that reciever(RX-V1800). It's a hell of a reciever though, but go with the Onkyo TX-SR805.... same features, less money and same build quality. I did TONS of research between the two.

If you are still set on getting a new reciever in the hopes that the PS3 will someday pass these audio codecs in bitstream(doubtful) or in the event that you get a standalone, then go with the SR805. I think a standalone would be a good investment too. I have the Samsung 1400 and can't say enough good things about DTS-MA with it paired to my Onkyo SR805!

So why in the hell would they not let the ps3 pass those codecs, when they advertise it as a BD player also.
Why cant it pass the hd audio that is on the bd movies?
One of the only reasons i got the PS3 was for the BD player.. i already have a yamaha HTR-5890, the hd tv, paradigm's all around.. all i wanted to do now was the hear the BD movies the way they are suppose to sound. I figured the PS3 would pass it via HDMI if i had the amp to accept it..

[owa]

Originally Posted by delavoie

So why in the hell would they not let the ps3 pass those codecs, when they advertise it as a BD player also.
Why cant it pass the hd audio that is on the bd movies?
One of the only reasons i got the PS3 was for the BD player.. i already have a yamaha HTR-5890, the hd tv, paradigm's all around.. all i wanted to do now was the hear the BD movies the way they are suppose to sound. I figured the PS3 would pass it via HDMI if i had the amp to accept it..

The PS3 has to do the decoding and then passes it to the receiver as PCM. It can currently do that with TrueHD but not DTS-MA. I think we're currently waiting on a working software solution for DTS-MA or so I've read.

There is some hardware limitation that keeps it from being able to pass the advanced codecs as bitstream to the receiver for decoding. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable on it will chime in here shortly.

[bootman]

It has to do with the HDMI chips Sony used for the PS3.
They are really 1.3 in video only. (SiI9132 I believe reserved for
game consoles)
They cannot pass the audio portion of the total 1.3 spec which includes the new surround formats.

A good question would be if Sony used the full spec HDMI 1.3 parts for the new 40G player or the game console only chipset.
That has yet to be confirmed.

All current PS3 have this problem.
It's the main reason there is such a demand for a good stand alone that can pass all of the codecs to match up with a ready HT system.

Quick load times are not everything.

[frank_t]

Is that a true statement that any HDMI receiver can process multi-channel PCM?

I was under the impression this was not necessarily true.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by bootman

Any HDMI receiver can do PCM multichannel.

This is not true. Though every version of HDMI is capable of multichannel PCM, it doesn't mean that every receiver that has HDMI inputs has enable the feature to accept multichannel PCM. Though, this issue is probably more an issue with higher end Audio equipment then most of the receivers coming out now for home theater use. I believe Arcams AVS350 receiver has 2 HDMI input but the receiver will not accept audio over HDMI.

It might be rare, but there can be HDMI enabled receivers that will not allow multichannel audio or any audio over HDMI. I imagine going forward just about all will have to support this function to find any buyers.

This is just starting to be embraced by the mid-to high end equipment. NAD and Rotel just recently has brought to market (or in process) HDMI enabled receivers and processors that accept multichannel PCM but they do not do the decoding of Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA

[ryoohki]

I'am getting my Denon 3808ci in 2 weeks.... can't wait for my first PCM/TrueHD experience

Coming form a 400$ Yamaha amp..

[JToddler]

Get the Sony STR-DA5300ES

I am getting mine soon!

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y+str-da5300es

[StereoMike]

Originally Posted by JToddler

Get the Sony STR-DA5300ES

I am getting mine soon!

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y+str-da5300es

Yeah i have it and it's amazing!!!

[JToddler]

Originally Posted by Stereomike

Yeah i have it and it's amazing!!!

How much did you spend to get it?

[StereoMike]

Originally Posted by JToddler

How much did you spend to get it?

$2K CAD, but it worths every penny!

[sydney]

denon w/ def tech spkrs will stop your heart

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by bootman

It has to do with the HDMI chips Sony used for the PS3.
They are really 1.3 in video only. (SiI9132 I believe reserved for
game consoles)
They cannot pass the audio portion of the total 1.3 spec which includes the new surround formats.

I'm not so sure about that. The source of the "incapable HDMI chips in the PS3" seems to have been Amir, Microsoft's FUDmaster supreme on AVS. Here're some more plausible thoughts on the matter that were posted there:

I've not seen anything other than the usual internet rumour mongering that suggests the PS3 HDMI 1.3 chip is not capable of anything in the original HDMI 1.3 spec. The part is a custom part made for Sony, or maybe even fabricated by Sony under licence, as it's stamped Sony on the chip, which is not normal practice. Perhaps Sony were the only ones able to make it in enough volume. Just a guess obviously. There are no specs for the SiI9132, which is what the part is labelled as, available anywhere.

The rumour as far as I remember started over on AVS when Amir had a bit of a rant over not all HDMI 1.3 products supporting all HDMI features, and that he was railing at products meaning things like PS3, XA2 etc rather than products such as HDMI 1.3 chips.

It was Amir who then laid the seed of doubt over HDMI revisions and that you needed a later one to have the advanced audio. When questioned further it transpired that his outburst was just frustration that any device using HDMI 1.3 did not have to implement all the features, a frustration that currently applies to ANY HDMI 1.3 device in existence including the XA2/XE1. This was proven to be wrong. The original HDMI 1.3 spec clearly includes advanced audio support, i.e. bitstream TrueHD and Master Audio. There is then an HDMI 1.3a revision that added a few small items, one of which was the ability to control the audio clock rate from the receiving device, perhaps aimed at helping reduce jitter.

What people continually confuse things with is the SiI9133, an HDMI 1.3 receiver designed specifically for TV's, which would never need the advanced audio support as TV's don't do normall DD or DTS decoding let alone the more fancy stuff. Most people then say the 9132 is based on the 9133 which I'm sorry is rubbish. The 9132 is a transmitter and therefore has little in common with a receiver. Silicon Image then went on to produce the SiI9135 FULL receiver for use in items such as AV receivers that could handle advanced audio transmission, and their first and I think only official transmitter the 9134, which again supports all options except those in the HDMI 1.3a revision. The 9134 was announced before the PS3 shipped, and I suspect is the actual base for the Sony 9132 part. What the differences are I doubt we'll easily find out. There is no HDMI 1.3b revision, simply a HDMI 1.3b testing revison document.

Until Sony come out and state the PS3 won't do it, or the HDMI 1.3 chip won't support it then I'm afraid I will be treating this as rumour. Apart from some rather spurious 120Hz modes that only apply to 1080i not p, which IMO seems pointless, the big change to HDMI 1.3 was deep colour which is meaningless for Blu-ray or HD-DVD, and advanced audio codecs. Given the former would make the PS3's gaming even more impossible to render, if it doesn't do the latter Sony could have saved themselves an awful lot of hassle and expense by simply using HDMI 1.2 or earlier chipsets which are not in such short supply and support 1080p and HDMI PCM multichannel audio quite happily.

Now if Sony don't want to do DTS-HD MA because of increased royalties, fair enough, although passthrough of the codec untouched can't cost much. A much better reason for never passing it through, or TrueHD, would IMO be interactive features for which such passthrough will never work, as is the case for HD-DVD.

I think we need to wait for some SoC's to arrive and the ability for standalone players to do DTS-HD MA. Once we finally have some full spec players and the current ones are well and truly retired, then I think Sony will be able to do what they like on the PS3. At the moment it's tricky ground politically so we won't get anyone to admit that. I think PS3 will be more than capable, and we'll also see more games and films converge, however, Profile 1.1 needs to get out of the starting gate first...

And I don't own, and am unlikely to ever own a PS3 so this isn't wishful thinking based on purchasing decisions. I also think HDMI 1.3 has been one of the biggest cons ever invented to try and trick us into buying all sorts of things. It's uses would appear in reality to be incredibly limited.

They key takeaway is that the real additions in HDMI 1.3 were deep color which is utterly pointless and the lossless audio codecs. No reason to shell out for a 1.3 transmitter for deep color so it's reasonable to suspect that the chip is capable but for whatever reason (royalty, political, technical, etc.) Sony has chosen to not allow bitstream output of the DTS & Dolby lossless audio formats.

[bootman]

If this is the case then why no bitstreaming yet?
Or can you bitstream TrueHD?

According to this no.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08...r-ps3-owners/2

Unless they lied about the confirmation from Sony reps.

[JohnGalt]

Originally Posted by bootman

If this is the case then why no bitstreaming yet?
Or can you bitstream TrueHD?

According to this no.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08...r-ps3-owners/2

Unless they lied about the confirmation from Sony reps.

Your article isn't inconsistent with what I posted. It doesn't say, "The PS3's hardware is incapable of bitstreaming lossless audio formats." Instead it says:

It has recently been uncovered that although the PS3 does have an HDMI 1.3 port, the software does not support bit stream audio.

[emphasis mine]

So the PS3 DOES support HDMI 1.3 (which would include bitstreaming Dolby and DTS lossless audio) but the PS3's SOFTWARE is not yet capable of doing so. Or at least that's how I read that particular article.

As for why it might be a licensing / royalty issue or they might be playing nice and giving other CE hardware companies a chance to get players into the market that do support these capabilities before enabling them on the PS3. Who knows.

[bootman]

The software doesn't explain why you are not bitstreaming trueHD since the player is already decoding it via software.

I think the player physically can't do it.
Doesn't make any sense why it wouldn't be doing it now if it was just software.
(external bitstreaming, not internal decoding)
I know the DTS deal since its DTS still working out the issues.
So I see a firmware upgrade getting you DTS-MA internal decoding but still not bitstreaming.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by bootman

The software doesn't explain why you are not bitstreaming trueHD since the player is already decoding it via software.

I think the player physically can't do it.
Doesn't make any sense why it wouldn't be doing it now if it was just software.
(external bitstreaming, not internal decoding)
I know the DTS deal since its DTS still working out the issues.
So I see a firmware upgrade getting you DTS-MA internal decoding but still not bitstreaming.

The PS3 will decode TrueHD (and DTS-MA in the future it is believed) but most likely will never send it via bitstream over HDMI. At least from that I read and understood, it does not have the chipset needed to send the signal as bitstream so it will always do the decoding and then send as PCM.

So if somebody really feels the need to do the decoding at the receiver instead of the player, then the PS3 is not the right choice but the end result really shouldn't be any difference.