Multi Channel or Digital?

[bikerman]

I have and older Yamaha receiver Model # HTR 5950 and it doesn't decode the DTS HD MASTER LOSSLESS AUDIO but when I play say I, Robot through the analog multi channel, it sounds noticeably cleaner and clearer than playing it through the fiber optic audio cable or coaxial cable. The beginning of the movie in the water and when Will Smith walks into the building where the scientist is killed. The doors shutting and the voice over the P.A. system is really noticeably better. My question to all of you sound masters is... is it better to play all the movies through the analog multi channel than fiber optic or coaxial cable? I even notice a big difference on both Fantastic 4 movies using the multi channel analog even though they claim to be DTS. Is there a big difference or am I just hearing things... (pun intended)

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by bikerman

when I play say I, Robot through the analog multi channel, it sounds noticeably cleaner and clearer...I even notice a big difference on both Fantastic 4 movies using the multi channel analog

you answered your own question.

Best = what sounds best to you.

[bikerman]

Originally Posted by crackinhedz

you answered your own question.

Best = what sounds best to you.

is this usually the case?

[un4gvn94538]

does your player decode true hd and dts ma? if it does then youd be hearing hd codecs. optical or coax cannot carry the same signal

[bikerman]

my player does not support true hd or dts ma. but still sounds better on multi channel. i don;t know if this is normal...

[bikerman]

so i gather that multi channel is better for all audio signals from bluray players?

[guitarist155]

yes, when you can't use hdmi use 5.1 your blu-player will decode the hd codecs and send them out as 5.1 analog so you really are getting hd audio.

with optical and coax you are only getting the standard 5.1 codec

there is a sticky on this here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=17648
and here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40821

edit: just found that your player didn't decode hd codecs opps

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by bikerman

I have and older Yamaha receiver Model # HTR 5950 and it doesn't decode the DTS HD MASTER LOSSLESS AUDIO but when I play say I, Robot through the analog multi channel, it sounds noticeably cleaner and clearer than playing it through the fiber optic audio cable or coaxial cable. The beginning of the movie in the water and when Will Smith walks into the building where the scientist is killed. The doors shutting and the voice over the P.A. system is really noticeably better. My question to all of you sound masters is... is it better to play all the movies through the analog multi channel than fiber optic or coaxial cable? I even notice a big difference on both Fantastic 4 movies using the multi channel analog even though they claim to be DTS. Is there a big difference or am I just hearing things... (pun intended)

Just be careful. It may seem to sound better on Multichannel, but you need to find out what the receiver is doing with the signal. It sounds to me like your receiver is actually downmixing the signal to 2 channel stereo and then using that stereo signal to fake the surround feeds. This DESTROYS the surround integrity. Yes, it does sound clearer, but it lacks three dimensional sound field integrity!!!

What is the model # of the receiver??? Maybe when I learn how to read I'll consider myself a big grown up boy.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by bikerman

my player does not support true hd or dts ma. but still sounds better on multi channel. i don;t know if this is normal...

I am assuming you are comparing a normal DD or DST signal from Optical being decoded on your receiver vs having your player decode the signal and then sending it out via 5.1 analog output?

If this is the case, it is quite possible that you like it from analog output instead of the receiver doing the decoding. I am not sure on your model but many receivers will by-pass the digital circuits when fed the analog input and may just provide a pure pass through to the amps. I know I prefer a 2 channel analog feed going through pure by pass mode to having it fed via digital then having my process do volume control and other things in the digital domain.

The negative side of feeding it analog and by passing the digital signal is you can not take advantage of speaker size and distance settings from your receiver.

In the end, listen to what you enjoy and do it that way.

[bikerman]

The negative side of feeding it analog and by passing the digital signal is you can not take advantage of speaker size and distance settings from your receiver.


I do have control over speaker size and distance and also volume for each speaker in the multi channel. My receiver does have a bypass though I don't use it.

Also the sound is a 3D sound with different sounds from each speaker. Helicopters, voices, thunder,etc. All do a fine job at separation... better than optical or coaxial.

[guitarist155]

evidently your player just has a better decoder than the receiver or the receiver is not setup properly for optical

[Nathan P]

Originally Posted by bikerman

my player does not support true hd or dts ma. but still sounds better on multi channel. i don;t know if this is normal...

Check paidgeek's insider thread - i'm sure there reference to a firmware update for your s300 that will allow it to decode true HD

Just found it, its post #724 in paidgeeks thread - sorry couldn't work how to link the post

[guitarist155]

ooooo i just figured it out the s300 can only decode true-hd over hdmi not analog but you are still getting the pcm uncompressed tracks when available and since the pcm tracks can't be played over optical you would only get the core track but when you are using 5.1 analog you are getting the uncompressed pcm. wow i can't believe i overlooked uncompressed pcm all this time

[guitarist155]

dang I Robot doesn't use uncompressed pcm owell at least i was mostly right,
so my guess with that movie is still that your player decodes better than your receiver

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by guitarist155

ooooo i just figured it out the s300 can only decode true-hd over hdmi not analog but you are still getting the pcm uncompressed tracks when available and since the pcm tracks can't be played over optical you would only get the core track but when you are using 5.1 analog you are getting the uncompressed pcm. wow i can't believe i overlooked uncompressed pcm all this time

ive never heard of a player that decodes true hd or dts ma and not be able to send the decoded codec over 5.1 analog out.

it should be able to send whatever it decodes over 5.1 analog out

[bikerman]

OK so I'm listening to what all of you are saying and trying to take it all in. I believe something is going on but can't quite put my finger on it. So I thought I'd play around with something. I put in the first Spiderman movie, the regular DVD not BD. It sounds great for a DVD DD5.1 through my fiber optic cable. Then I switch to Multi Channel and boost the volume so it is the same level as the optical cable and it throws the surround efx around a whole lot better. And mind you this is DD 5.1 Multi Channel vs. fiber optic on a regular DVD played over the Sony S300. On the Spiderman movie where the Goblin is talking to the professor about getting just before the mirror scene you can hear the green goblin talking through the rear surround on the right side just as if someone is really there. On the fiber optic cable with the volume matched it sounds like the voice of the goblin is front center and not as pronounced... so go figure, this is not Blu-Ray and I can hear a difference. I also checked and I do not have the Bypass turned on in the receiver...

Weird...

[guitarist155]

Originally Posted by un4gvn94538

ive never heard of a player that decodes true hd or dts ma and not be able to send the decoded codec over 5.1 analog out.

it should be able to send whatever it decodes over 5.1 analog out

i was just going by this but i have not kept up with it so it might have been dis-proven

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I finally took some time this evening to reconfirm what is going on with the 300.

A couple of points to know first:

I checked this with firmware 3.7, but it applies to several earlier releases going back to when the feature first appeared on the S1.

It is not an advertised feature of the S300, It could be removed at any time in a future firmware release.

DO NOT call Sony customer service and hassle them about why this does not show up in the information display or in the manual. As mentioned before, this is an unadvertised feature. Consider it a gift.

The only setting that matters is the HDMI audio setting. It MUST be set to LPCM, or Dolby THD will only come out of the HDMI connection as DD. The downmix setting does not matter.

Dolby THD will only be decoded and passed as LPCM on the HDMI connector. If you want to confirm if you are really getting THD versus DD, try the following: Connect your receiver analog inputs to the analog outputs of the S300, set the HDMI audio output to LPCM and connect the HDMI output to your receiver as well, playback a THD audio stream and use your receiver to toggle between the analog input or the HDMI input, better yet, have someone else do the switching for you. If these do not sound the same to you, you have learned something. Now try the same thing with a normal DD stream and see if you hear the same difference, if not....

For those of you who will continue to question this until the sun burns out, someone makes a test disc to confirm it, or someone dedicated does an invert/add of the analog out vs. the HDMI THD out, keep in mind that I don't do this for a hobby and I don't have anything to gain by misleading you.

[guitarist155]

Originally Posted by bikerman

OK so I'm listening to what all of you are saying and trying to take it all in. I believe something is going on but can't quite put my finger on it. So I thought I'd play around with something. I put in the first Spiderman movie, the regular DVD not BD. It sounds great for a DVD DD5.1 through my fiber optic cable. Then I switch to Multi Channel and boost the volume so it is the same level as the optical cable and it throws the surround efx around a whole lot better. And mind you this is DD 5.1 Multi Channel vs. fiber optic on a regular DVD played over the Sony S300. On the Spiderman movie where the Goblin is talking to the professor about getting just before the mirror scene you can hear the green goblin talking through the rear surround on the right side just as if someone is really there. On the fiber optic cable with the volume matched it sounds like the voice of the goblin is front center and not as pronounced... so go figure, this is not Blu-Ray and I can hear a difference. I also checked and I do not have the Bypass turned on in the receiver...

Weird...

my thoughts are that ether a setting is messed up for optical or that the player has a better decoder than your receiver. when playing pcm uncompressed you will get better sound so no matter what you should have it hooked up with the 5.1 analog anyway

[musicman1999]

The reason this is happening is the player has a better decoder than your receiver, also for 95% of applications optical is the worse connection you can use. Try the coax, it may make a small difference, but the big thing is the decoders, i had the same player and found it did a good job with DD soundtracks over analog.

bill

[un4gvn94538]

Originally Posted by guitarist155

i was just going by this but i have not kept up with it so it might have been dis-proven

i remember now. it was said that sony quietly added true hd decoding. its not listed anywhere i can see except by paidgeeks posts. not even on sonys site. i dont have the player so i cannot test either way if it can come through the analog outs. but one would think it could since all players that have the outs can.