Questions on new subwoofer

[dborgill]

So, I have a pieced together home theater system that is slowly coming together. It's low end compared to a lot of people's but I still enjoy the sound of it. Rundown:

* Marantz 7.1 Receiver (Does DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD sound)
* Pioneer large center channel
* Small Sony bookshelf left/right/surrounds (Only doing 5.1 right now)
* 10" DCM Subwoofer
* PS3 for Blu-Rays/360 for gaming
* 55" Sony A3000 1080p SXRD

So, I have this setup in my small family room. It is a rectangle shaped room about 15' deep and 30' length. I have my TV and couch towards one end kinda like this:

|--------------------------------------------------|
| SUB L HDTV R |
| C |
| |
| LS -------COUCH------- RS |
|--------------------------------------------------|

Hope that makes sense. Well, the DCM sub is new and I am really having a rough time finding a happy medium with my sound setup. It seems the bass/sub is too soft or not used enough or overpowering/muddy. The sub itself has a 180, front or phase setting. Also has crossover and level controls. My receiver also has a -10 to +10 sub setting. So...

#1 - Should I have the level LOW on the sub and higher in the receiver or vice versa or does it even matter?

#2 - Right now I have the sub facing frontwards towards the couch. Should I face it towards the west wall or put it by the couch in the other corner?

#3 - My sub has a left and right input but my receiver has only one RCA out.. does it matter if I put it in left or right or do I need a "Y" cable to get full sound?

#4 - What is a good way to set my sub? It sounds great in some Blu-Rays, too weak in others and totally different on games. Are people constantly changing the sub level on their sub and/or receiver according to content?

#5 - Last question, unrelated to sub, right now, my left/right are +2, center is +5 and surrounds at +2. I don't know what is the best way to set them all and my auto mic setup sets everything to quiet/no bass with the Marantz auto tuner/mic.

THANKS in advance is anyone dares to tackle this

[neos_peace]

1- don't know exactly what your talking about so I cna't help there.

2- It all depends on what realy sounds good to you. It seems you havn't found that "spot" yet. You'll have to do test tones or whatever and do bass crawling to find where your happy with it.

3. Yes you'll need to get a y splitter you'll want to have the sub cable coming dirrectly form your receiver, then connected to a splitter (1 female-2 male connector) you'lll actually if calibrated right get more db levels out of it.

4. It really depends. Some Blu's have great AQ to them as some don't. That and it depends on if the ones that you feel aren't "bassy" if your using the highest possible audio codec. Dolby True HD, DTS MAster etc. Blu's will have different audio sound depending on what you have selected. That and depends on your speaker's and such. which is a whole other matter.

5. could you go into more details on what you mean by this.


I'm in no way an expert at this, I'm sure others (bigdaddy for example) will be along that can give you more or even better responces to your questions.

Hope I helped some.

[dborgill]

1 - What I mean is you can set the gain/level on your sub really low and turn up the sub level on your receiver... or, you can set the sub level/gain on the sub itself higher and turn the level of sub on your receiver lower. Just wondering if it matters...

2 - I will have to move the sub around then and see what sounds best. Just wondering if there was a recommendation

3 - Right now, I just have the single RCA cable going into the LEFT input on the sub. Will a "Y" cable make it sound better ?

4 - I figured this was probably the case.. for example the Transformers TrueHD Blu-Ray sounds AWESOME on my system but Iron Man has WAY too much bass. Really sucks having to adjust my system for each Blu-Ray..

5 - What I meant is a have a mix of small speakers and a large center channel. I don't know what levels I should set my speakers to and if I should truly sent my center to LARGE and others to SMALL. I have read that if I set speakers to large, it takes some bass signal away from the sub.

[jomari]

First off, i like the way you posted, very concise and definitely love enumerating inquiries. much easier to answer. will reply using your post and work from there.

Originally Posted by dborgill

So, I have this setup in my small family room. It is a rectangle shaped room about 15' deep and 30' length. I have my TV and couch towards one end kinda like this:

|--------------------------------------------------|
| SUB L HDTV R |
| C |
| |
| LS -------COUCH------- RS |
|--------------------------------------------------|

Hope that makes sense. Well, the DCM sub is new and I am really having a rough time finding a happy medium with my sound setup. It seems the bass/sub is too soft or not used enough or overpowering/muddy. The sub itself has a 180, front or phase setting. Also has crossover and level controls. My receiver also has a -10 to +10 sub setting. So...

#1 - Should I have the level LOW on the sub and higher in the receiver or vice versa or does it even matter?

- it really depends on how you calibrate your system. id consider investing in a SPL meter, and learn how to use it, to get the best out of your current system. in tandem id also consider using at least one calibration disc, may it be dve, avia or the munsel disc, either found on blu-ray or dvd.

in relation to your inquiry, i like to calibrate my sub, using the settings in the AVR (or receiver), set at 0db. calibrate the subwoofer with the crossover setting set at its highest point, and then adjust the gain accordingly. for example, the blu-ray you have right now is a tad too low for you, then turn it up a couple of db's via the AVR's gain/volume adjustment. once your done, put it back to its original settings. much easier than tampering with the sub dial all the time.

#2 - Right now I have the sub facing frontwards towards the couch. Should I face it towards the west wall or put it by the couch in the other corner?

the current position should work just fine, but mind you, we'd want to go ahead and try to move it after you calibrate it with the calibration disc. see how it works, and based on your room interactions, would determine whats best for you.

#3 - My sub has a left and right input but my receiver has only one RCA out.. does it matter if I put it in left or right or do I need a "Y" cable to get full sound?

using a splitter as neos has mentioned, will increase the gain by 6db, but may potentially increase the noise level as well. just something to think about. louder doesnt necessarily equal better.

#4 - What is a good way to set my sub? It sounds great in some Blu-Rays, too weak in others and totally different on games. Are people constantly changing the sub level on their sub and/or receiver according to content?

as mentioned as well, it really depends on the media you are currently using. thus the need for a calibration disc. using this as a benchmark, you can therefore determine its not the media, but the setup thats a problem. eliminate the chances of a poorly calibrated HT, and then tweak it accordingly.

#5 - Last question, unrelated to sub, right now, my left/right are +2, center is +5 and surrounds at +2. I don't know what is the best way to set them all and my auto mic setup sets everything to quiet/no bass with the Marantz auto tuner/mic.

the calibration settings marantz has would definitely be a starting point, but is by no means the best way to get there. my suggestion is try using the calibration software once again, and take notes from it, see how it goes for you, then adjust it to your personal needs, taking notes once again. with an spl meter and/or a calibration disc, adjust again, and take down what you've learned from it. ive always mentioned this a while back (and is my favorite posting), comparing this to a weight loss program - nothing beats plain ol excercise and proper diet compared to the easy one pill diet.

THANKS in advance is anyone dares to tackle this

this ones easy.

for what its worth, we all start somewhere, and quite frankly, you're choice of a marantz avr is definitely a good sign here. at one point or another, we work with what is within our means, and enjoy the blessings we have.

no need in filing for a loan to get the best speakers. its all about diminishing returns.

[jomari]

Originally Posted by dborgill

5 - What I meant is a have a mix of small speakers and a large center channel. I don't know what levels I should set my speakers to and if I should truly sent my center to LARGE and others to SMALL. I have read that if I set speakers to large, it takes some bass signal away from the sub.

Set all your speakers to SMALL, no matter what size they are. LARGE settings are for speakers that can handle the full range dynamics that the AVR will reproduce, while setting it to SMALL will send the frequencies lower than the crossover settings (which you will determine, starting point at 80hz), and redirect it to the subwoofer, allowing your AVR to focus on the midrange and higher frequencies, equalling better sound reproduction.

Its not that it takes away the signal to the subwoofer, it just would push the entire frequency to the mains. The Sub will still have its own 'signal' but that would the the designated LFE signal its receiving. What would happen if you set a crossover point, it would redirect that TO the subwoofer, to reproduce.

I also want to clarify that LFE+Main is not also a good/ideal setting as well. instead of having one point of origin for the lower frequencies, you will be having four (the sub, Left, right center speakers), and would possibly cause cancellations, or worse, standing waves.

[stcurell]

Originally Posted by dborgill

1 - What I mean is you can set the gain/level on your sub really low and turn up the sub level on your receiver... or, you can set the sub level/gain on the sub itself higher and turn the level of sub on your receiver lower. Just wondering if it matters...

2 - I will have to move the sub around then and see what sounds best. Just wondering if there was a recommendation

3 - Right now, I just have the single RCA cable going into the LEFT input on the sub. Will a "Y" cable make it sound better ?

4 - I figured this was probably the case.. for example the Transformers TrueHD Blu-Ray sounds AWESOME on my system but Iron Man has WAY too much bass. Really sucks having to adjust my system for each Blu-Ray..

5 - What I meant is a have a mix of small speakers and a large center channel. I don't know what levels I should set my speakers to and if I should truly sent my center to LARGE and others to SMALL. I have read that if I set speakers to large, it takes some bass signal away from the sub.

1. For sound quality, doesn't matter. One issue regarding this is sub auto-turn on. If your sub isn't turning on, turn up the receiver and the sub down.

2. Rule of 25%: Ideal position is 25% along any wall. Imagine a room with dimensions 25% of your room, nestled in any of the 4 corners. At the opposite corner you place the sub. So in your case, about 4 feet along the short wall, 8 feet along the long wall, 2 feet up (assuming 8 foot ceiling.) Try something close to this, and at the least GET IT OUT OF THE CORNER. You'll have to increase the volume but you will get rid of the one-note boom. Corner placement can give you maximum volume but without equalization you get the boom. Another trick is to fold up an old towel and put it under the sub. You want isolation from the floor. A rug can do the same thing, or build a riser (see DIY sub riser thread).

As far as which way its pointing, just go with whatever looks best. Sound is non-directional below 80hz. Position is much more important.

3. Yes just get a Y-cable, they're like 2 bucks. Monoprice.com or your local radiosnack.

4+5. Set phase to 0. Turn the crossover all the way up on the sub (let the receiver handle it). Set the sub gain to a middle position. Use the auto feature on the receiver.

What size drivers are in the center? You might be able to get away with setting it to large. And it probably is your best option if you have very small speakers for the other channels. The crossover is probably going to be set at 90-100hz if you have the 5.25" woofer sony bookshelf speakers like I do for surrounds. Those bass frequencies above 80hz are going to be directional from the sub, which can be annoying for dialogue. In fact, you may want to just set the crossover manually to 80hz for all speakers and be done with it.

Here is how I set the crossover and sub level- Play a song at medium volume, a song that you know well with some bass guitar or otherwise interesting bass content. First, just set the crossover to a conservatively high value for your speakers, probably 100 or 120 for your small bookshelves. Just set the receiver to play stereo out of the two L and R speakers. Now, set the speakers to "large." This sends all the bass to the main speakers, and listen for a while. Now set them to "small" and adjust the sub volume to just fill in bass, not overpower. Once you have the sub at a good matching volume, (guarantee you its much lower than you thought it should be at before) go ahead and leave the speakers at "small" and try the different crossover settings between 80 and 120.

If you get frustrated just leave it and come back another day, it will take a while to get it just right.

With a good sub position in the room you shouldn't have to adjust the volume for every movie or video game once you have it set.

Yes, when you set the speakers to "large" it sends all the bass for each channel to its individual speaker... "small" uses the crossover frequency to send anything below that to the sub. No home theater should actually use the "large" setting typically, even if you have large speakers a low crossover setting of 40 or 50 hz is beneficial since those frequencies below there are SUBWOOFER territory. However, for stereo music listening, with large main speakers, sometimes its nice to set them to "large." Also, the "LFE" channel (the .1 low frequency effect channel) is unaffected by crossover settings, that bass is always sent to the sub. UNLESS you tell the receiver you don't have a sub, in which case it sends all the bass to speakers set to large. but you won't have to worry about that.

enough typing for me! good luck.

[dborgill]

Excellent advice all. I will definitely be setting my center channel back to SMALL (even though it's a pretty large center). All the other speakers are set to SMALL.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, set the gain on the sub itself to a low setting and set the receiver to 0 and go from there? Also, I have the receiver AND sub set to 100hz on crossover. Should I set both to 80 if I have small speakers?

Thanks again for your help

[stcurell]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Excellent advice all. I will definitely be setting my center channel back to SMALL (even though it's a pretty large center). All the other speakers are set to SMALL.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, set the gain on the sub itself to a low setting and set the receiver to 0 and go from there? Also, I have the receiver AND sub set to 100hz on crossover. Should I set both to 80 if I have small speakers?

Thanks again for your help

Turn the sub crossover all the way up or OFF if you can. Otherwise it will interfere with the receiver crossover.

With SMALL speakers you need a HIGH crossover setting. 100 is probably good with the small bookshelf speakers.

[jomari]

Forgot about the quarter rule, good thing to bring up, but also considered his living quarters. its ideal, but if the WAF doesnt approve, all is moot.

Originally Posted by dborgill

Excellent advice all. I will definitely be setting my center channel back to SMALL (even though it's a pretty large center). All the other speakers are set to SMALL.

yes. set all speakers to small.

Ok, so if I understand correctly, set the gain on the sub itself to a low setting and set the receiver to 0 and go from there? Also, I have the receiver AND sub set to 100hz on crossover. Should I set both to 80 if I have small speakers?

Thanks again for your help

Receiver - Odb
Subwoofer - set to appropriate levels based on the SPL meter and/or calibration disc.

Crossover points are determined by the speakers frequency responses (normally indicated by 30hz-22000khz) on the spec sheet and/or speakers detail on the back. follow the one octave rule, or better yet, keep at 80hz.

Anything over 100hz can be localized (your ear can determine where the lower frequencies are originating from)...

[stcurell]

Originally Posted by jomari

Forgot about the quarter rule, good thing to bring up, but also considered his living quarters. its ideal, but if the WAF doesnt approve, all is moot.

Alas, our dreams are smashed by the WAF.

Another thing I forgot to mention is the orientation of your overall theater. IDEALLY you want it rotated 90 degrees, with the TV against the short wall. (I have the same problem)

Also any listening position AGAINST the wall is not ideal. Speakers AGAINST the wall are not ideal. Neither your head nor any speaker should be closer than a foot to a wall. (less important with small speakers not producing much bass.)

[dborgill]

Thanks again. I responded on my last note before I read stcurells big post. I will review this info, try some things out and report back. But before then, when you say turn crossover all the way up on the sub itself, I think mine goes all the way up to 120hz or so. So turn it up there and set everything at the receiver?

Also, my left/right/surrounds are SMALL Sony seapkers from 1999. They are almost like Bose size. They are not the normal booksize.. if that makes any sense. i don't have the exact info on them with me right now so I don't think they have a very broad range. So... with that, I am wondering what I should set my crossover to on my receiver.

And yes, I LOVE my Marantz

[jomari]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Thanks again. I responded on my last note before I read stcurells big post. I will review this info, try some things out and report back. But before then, when you say turn crossover all the way up on the sub itself, I think mine goes all the way up to 120hz or so. So turn it up there and set everything at the receiver?

Also, my left/right/surrounds are SMALL Sony seapkers from 1999. They are almost like Bose size. They are not the normal booksize.. if that makes any sense. i don't have the exact info on them with me right now so I don't think they have a very broad range. So... with that, I am wondering what I should set my crossover to on my receiver.

And yes, I LOVE my Marantz

the sub should be set at its highest crossover setting (as you mentioned 120hz), to avoid having an a-hole (audio hole that is )

well, for the sony's id just consider starting at 80hz, and see if the frequency sweep can determine its crossover points. if not, go up to 100hz and call it a day.

marantz was my second girl, sansui broke my cherry in the audio world. im old school.

[neos_peace]

Told you other's with more or better advise would be along shortly

[stcurell]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Also, my left/right/surrounds are SMALL Sony seapkers from 1999. They are almost like Bose size. They are not the normal booksize.. if that makes any sense. i don't have the exact info on them with me right now so I don't think they have a very broad range. So... with that, I am wondering what I should set my crossover to on my receiver.

May have to use a high crossover ~ 120hz.

And go speaker shopping which starts another whole discussion.

[dborgill]

Ok, followed your suggestions and set crossover at 80hz. Sounds MUCH better. I still have to get the splitter cable for the sub but for now, it's much better.

Now.. to tweak center/left and right levels. Would you suggest starting these at +0 on the receiver as well? The sub sounded great on the David Foster: Hit Man Blu-Ray but then I threw in Ratatouille Blu-Ray and the sub was WAY overpowering compared to the dialogue etc.

Right now, I have it set to +4 on the Left, Right and center. Hard to balance all this difference content

EDIT: Hmmm.. Tried Transformers 2 Blu-Ray. Sounds very boomy. I mean, it's great for the explosions but all the bass sounds... "the same" ? Don't know what I need to adjust from here.

[dborgill]

Hmmm.. maybe I should test more on 120hz crossover. When I had it set to 120hz, it sounded pretty flat.

Yeah, I know I could buy better speakers... just no $$$ right now

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Hmmm.. maybe I should test more on 120hz crossover. When I had it set to 120hz, it sounded pretty flat.

Yeah, I know I could buy better speakers... just no $$$ right now

Have you played much with location yet? This can have a big impact on the boominess you hear.....

[dborgill]

No.. not too much. That is a good point. I will try the raised/placement suggestions and report back. I did try all over suggestions though so I appreciate all the help!

[dborgill]

Since I am a sub n00b, just found out from a friend this is a probably a down firing sub.. it has no port. So wondering if placement even matters...

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by dborgill

Since I am a sub n00b, just found out from a friend this is a probably a down firing sub.. it has no port. So wondering if placement even matters...

Placement always matter. It is probably the most important thing with the sub's performance (or close to it.) The position of the driver can make a marginal difference, but it is not a huge factor. As a generalization, subs that lack a port are considered to be a more musical sub, with a more consistent and even frequency response. However, they usually lack the ability to really hit the really low frequencies around 20Hz or below without some distortion kicking in, which some scenes in movies can demand.