Transformers Blu PQ vs Dish HD

[Archangel630]

I've noticed after watching Transformers on Blu in comparison to watching it on HD satellite broadcast that more grain shows up in certain scenes on Blu that do not show up on Dish.

I watch my blus on PS3. Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the Blu transfer doesn't match the PQ of the Dish broadcast? Is it because I'm using the PS3 as opposed to a possibly better Blu player?

I appreciate any comments on this.

[Batman1980]

It's probably your TV or the grain is intentional, I'm not very eloquent so I can't really help you. Other people here would be able to help you better if you tell us what kind of TV you have and what kind of set-up for that TV you have as well.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Archangel630

I've noticed after watching Transformers on Blu in comparison to watching it on HD satellite broadcast that more grain shows up in certain scenes on Blu that do not show up on Dish.

I watch my blus on PS3. Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the Blu transfer doesn't match the PQ of the Dish broadcast? Is it because I'm using the PS3 as opposed to a possibly better Blu player?

I appreciate any comments on this.

The Blu version has more resolution and detail, hence more film grain will be present.

Film grain is not bad. It's actually a good thing for several reasons.

Compression artifacts are a bad thing and I bet the broadcast has some of them.

[Archangel630]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

The Blu version has more resolution and detail, hence more film grain will be present.

Film grain is not bad. It's actually a good thing for several reasons.

Compression artifacts are a bad thing and I bet the broadcast has some of them.

I'm thinking your synopsis is most likely correct. I kind of felt like detail may have been more apparent in the blu, but with that it produces more grain. To answer the first post reply, I am only using a Samsung 32" wide, with 1080i and HDMI cable. I don't think it's the tv simply because the broadcast on Dish was absent the grain. I would be more likely to agree with what HeavyHitter said. I'm not exactly afraid of grain ( I bought Gangs of New York and survived) but I thought it was a slight let-down that the HD broadcast from satellite managed to have a good PQ also, just minus the grain.

[KingBing]

Originally Posted by Archangel630

I'm thinking your synopsis is most likely correct. I kind of felt like detail may have been more apparent in the blu, but with that it produces more grain. To answer the first post reply, I am only using a Samsung 32" wide, with 1080i and HDMI cable. I don't think it's the tv simply because the broadcast on Dish was absent the grain. I would be more likely to agree with what HeavyHitter said. I'm not exactly afraid of grain ( I bought Gangs of New York and survived) but I thought it was a slight let-down that the HD broadcast from satellite managed to have a good PQ also, just minus the grain.

No matter how you slice it, the satellite is NO WHERE near close to the blu version, granted it looks pretty decent but the blu is just a couple of levels above it and the amount of grain you see is a result of that.

[mugupo]

i saw 300 on dish hd hbo, nearly no grain at all, compare to ps3 which has tons of grain, sound is no match from a blu-ray, but video is somewhat, but geeze is commercial free from those channel you better set dvr lol.

[Phoenix Theory]

yea some blu rays has a lot of grain like dark scenes in 28 days later but its meant to be there lol

[hardcorefrokid]

Film grain, it's good stuff.

[Kryptron]

The ps3 is a very good player. I have Dish and nothing i have seen comes close to the Blu-ray.
First of all, movies are "zoomed" then they are compressed to a rather low bit rate/with possibly a bit of DNR applied which makes the picture very soft, so soft it seems to almost remove grain completely from some movies. The color pallet seems to be the limited, transformers lacks the color saturation the blu-ray version has. I also noticed this with Pirates on Starz HD, no comparison to Blu-ray.

[HeavyHitter]

If 300 doesn't show A LOT of grain, you are missing A LOT of detail and the intent of the filmmaker.

Personally, I love the overall look of the film.

[mugupo]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

If 300 doesn't show A LOT of grain, you are missing A LOT of detail and the intent of the filmmaker.

Personally, I love the overall look of the film.

did explain why grain movie always get lower star in pq department.

[brdmaverick]

Why do many find film grain to be a good thing? Seeing some scenes with heavy amounts of grain make me want to get up and adjust the rabbit ears, except that it is blu ray.

Granted I only have like 12 blu rays, but Transformers is the specific movie in which I noticed scenes of heavy grain.

I suppose I would be one of those people who give PQ a lower rating when film grain is very noticeable.

[Sir Platypus]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

If 300 doesn't show A LOT of grain, you are missing A LOT of detail and the intent of the filmmaker.

Personally, I love the overall look of the film.

THIS. 300 is supposed to look extremely grainy.

[neos_peace]

I'm not going to be like alot of other memebers on here and say "hey this has been discussed before (which it has )" BUT movies like 300 which is awesome on Blu is supposed to be very grainy. The director and producers wanted it, it's what gives 300 that feel. Grain is a natural product from the filming and post prodution system. However there are ways to adjust and get rid of it. I personaly have adjusted my TV settings to get rid of 2/3 of it. Yes it takes away some detail, but not enough that makes it bad. Example, TDK. I hate the grainy in scenes form it. I adjusted and It still looks amazing. BUT you have to remember some people aren't used to it becasue we never saw it on reg DVD. Blu has MUCH MUCH MUCH more detail therefore you will see things you never saw before.

[brdmaverick]

Originally Posted by neos_peace

I'm not going to be like alot of other memebers on here and say "hey this has been discussed before (which it has )" BUT movies like 300 which is awesome on Blu is supposed to be very grainy. The director and producers wanted it, it's what gives 300 that feel. Grain is a natural product from the filming and post prodution system. However there are ways to adjust and get rid of it. I personaly have adjusted my TV settings to get rid of 2/3 of it. Yes it takes away some detail, but not enough that makes it bad. Example, TDK. I hate the grainy in scenes form it. I adjusted and It still looks amazing. BUT you have to remember some people aren't used to it becasue we never saw it on reg DVD. Blu has MUCH MUCH MUCH more detail therefore you will see things you never saw before.

I agree that blu ray has much much more detail, but isn't it supposed to be for the better.

A hot girl from distance isn't always a hot girl up close. If that is the case, wouldn't we rather stay far away from these girls?

I know it has been discussed before, and that the grain is intentional, but I just don't see the quality in it. It makes the quality go down in my eyes, and apparently yours too if you are adjusting your TV to get rid of it.

[Blacklac]

Originally Posted by brdmaverick

I know it has been discussed before, and that the grain is intentional, but I just don't see the quality in it.

It's part of recording on film. It's not something added as an enhancement, unless a director decides to do so.

I personally appreciate a nice layer of film grain. It looks natural to me. Not life-like, but film-like. If you want life-like, look out a window!

Also, if grain is present and/or heavy, you know the studio hasn't over processed the movie with DNR, or the like, and removed all the nice detail that we pay extra for.

[BaronVH]

Originally Posted by brdmaverick

I agree that blu ray has much much more detail, but isn't it supposed to be for the better.

A hot girl from distance isn't always a hot girl up close. If that is the case, wouldn't we rather stay far away from these girls?

I know it has been discussed before, and that the grain is intentional, but I just don't see the quality in it. It makes the quality go down in my eyes, and apparently yours too if you are adjusting your TV to get rid of it.

This is actually the new thing that lovers of film are battling against. Remember non-animorphic DVDs? We hated those. We hated fullscreen pan and scan of letterbox movies on DVDs. The thing to be educated on is film grain. It can be a specific director's artistic intent to have film grain. Would you advocate somebody deleting curse words from Pulp Fiction because it was offensive? No way. Removing film grain is removing parts of the movie. Further, when you remove grain, you also remove other details that can make it look even worse. Learn to love the film grain, my friend. The very nature of using film will always create grain, especially in low level lighting. Some directors want it. 300 is the easiest example. In the video game Mass Effect they used it to create a more cinematic affect. Many war films use it to make it more gritty.

Blu-ray is intended to create a cinema quality environment in your home. Grain is in the movies when you watch them in the theater; therefore, it should be there in the Blu-ray. It should never be removed unless it is the specific intent of the director, and, only then, with very careful skill. I can also state that the Blu-ray of Transformers is wonderful. Mine is actually better than when I saw it in the theater. Learn to love the grain.

[wafi]

Grain is your friend!

[perfectdark]

Originally Posted by mugupo

i saw 300 on dish hd hbo, nearly no grain at all, compare to ps3 which has tons of grain, sound is no match from a blu-ray, but video is somewhat, but geeze is commercial free from those channel you better set dvr lol.

300is supposeto have allot fo grain. If your not seeing the grain on HDTV broadcast then your not getting the correct PQ

Bluray is better PQ, Satellite and Cable HD broadcast are12-18Mbps streams which are then compressed 2-1 or 3-1 (MPEG-2 or MPEG-4) depending on provider. So no where close to bluray

[Archangel630]

I know this is kind of resurrecting a dead thread, but wanted to give some feedback. It's been a long time since I originally posted in here, but I wanted to mention that I upgraded to a new 42" LCD with progressive scan and in both Transformers movies on blu, none of the 'grain' that was apparent in the dark scenes in either movie on my old lcd are there anymore. Great technology. Really improved the quality for me in many ways, not just with getting rid of that excess grain.

I wish I could have posted some pics of what the scenes looked like on my old set, because like I said before it was a stark contrast to the rest of the movie. But now with this new setup none of the issues that were there before are there now. More than satisfied with that new purchase.