Looking for Advice (First Sub Purchase)

[Jwilly019]

Sometime between mid-December and the new year I'll be purchasing my first subwoofer. I'll be putting in an apartment and the room it will be in will be 12x15. The room also opens to a 9x12 dining room (see floor plan below).



I've thought about putting a hanging acoustical "wall" similar to what Crazy has in order to somewhat separate the two rooms. Leaving 30"-36" on both sides of the treatment. I'm not sure how I'll have the furniture placed just yet, still deciding.

My budget is around $300. I obviously want the best performance I can get, if I have to turn the sub down since I'm in an apartment, then so be it.

Anyway, so far this is what I'm considering, open to all suggestions.

1. Acoustic Audio HD-Sub12 - $198.88 (with free shipping)

I would probably have to go with the maple or cherry finish, not that it's a big deal, but I would prefer black. The AA seems like a popular choice here and everyone seems to be happy with them.

Also, weren't these going for $169 recently? When did they go up in price?

2. Acoustic Audio HD-Sub15 - $268.88 (with free shipping)

Available in the black finish. I don't believe too many members here have the 15" AA, but I can assume from all the positive reviews of the 12" that the 15" is a solid choice.

3. Dual Acoustic Audio HD-Sub12's - $397.76 (with free shipping)

While this would be over budget, if I could find a good Live cashback (I think it's a 8% now) when I go to purchase, I could probably swing it. If it would outperform all the other choices of course. If only the price was still $169...

4. Premier Acoustic PA-120 - $229.00 (plus $29.00 shipping)

While not as popular as the AA's, they have gotten good reviews from the members that do have them. I just noticed on the eBay page that they won't ship until the end of March and the price is scheduled to go up soon. I'm not sure if I want to wait that long, but I will if it's the best choice.

5. Elemental Designs A2-300 - $350.00 (with free shipping)

While it is over-budget, I assumed that most of you would recommend something over-budget anyway, just beating you to the punch.

From what I've read, the eD should outperform the rest of the subs on my list (possibly with the exception of the dual HD-sub12's). However, I've read they aren't great for music. What exactly is the drawback with music playback? Also, is the boost in performance worth the extra cost (nearly $100 more than the HD-Sub15)?

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for all the advice, and again, if you have any other recommendations, don't hesitate to voice them.

[aramis109]

I would also add the Martin Logan that Amazon has on sale right now. At it's current discounted price it falls right in line with the PA-120 and eD A2-300. If I was sub shopping at that price range it'd be on my short list.

What's your budget? $350 or less?

*edit* Whoop, looks like it went back up, but it's dropped really low a couple of times now.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I would also add the Martin Logan that Amazon has on sale right now. At it's current discounted price it falls right in line with the PA-120 and eD A2-300. If I was sub shopping at that price range it'd be on my short list.

What's your budget? $350 or less?

*edit* Whoop, looks like it went back up, but it's dropped really low a couple of times now.

Are you talking about the 10" Dynamo? I had thought about it, but I read it was designed more for music than HT. I'll do some more research on it and keep an eye on the price in case it comes back down.

I would prefer to stay around $300, but I could go to $350 if there is a large jump in performance.

[Fors*]

So is over-budget completely out of the question or could you be talked into going up to around $400? If so, I say go with a dual sub set-up with 2 AA 12"'s. Two subs are almost always better than one. And with the opening in your room, you may find having 2 subs to be very beneficial to get the low frequency response you want.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

So is over-budget completely out of the question or could you be talked into going up to around $400? If so, I say go with a dual sub set-up with 2 AA 12"'s. Two subs are almost always better than one. And with the opening in your room, you may find having 2 subs to be very beneficial to get the low frequency response you want.

Well $400 might be pushing it (we'll see though), but with a 8% Live cashback, the price would be around $360, which shouldn't be a problem.

If that is the best option then worst case scenario, I get one and then get a second one later on.

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by forsberg21

So is over-budget completely out of the question or could you be talked into going up to around $400? If so, I say go with a dual sub set-up with 2 AA 12"'s. Two subs are almost always better than one. And with the opening in your room, you may find having 2 subs to be very beneficial to get the low frequency response you want.

I'm going to catch the ire of some folks here for this, but I would rather buy one quality than two cheap subs. You can always add another quality sub later, but you can't just trade them out if you don't like the cheap ones.

If I had the budget, I'd buy one SVS sub before I'd buy two PA-120's, and that's from someone that owns one and loves it.

[erict]

One thing to also consider as well is since you live in an apartment don't under buy. You will be better off over buying so you might be better equipped if you ever move.

[kpkelley]

I read recently an article which suggested that renters in apartments should consider placing in-wall/infloor subwoofers in their furniture so that they can get the same tactile response they would get with a larger subwoofer without the annoyed neighbors. Some technical knowledge would be needed in order to make this work me thinks.

Go Under-Furniture

For another stealthy install, consider the suggestion from Carl Kennedy of JL Audio to position the sub “under the sofa firing straight up into the seats.” The same thin models that go inside walls can also slide under some sofas. Besides the benefits of keeping the sub out of sight, this is a great install for areas where excessive bass can disturb the neighbors (like in a condo or apartment) or wake sleeping family members. Since the signal is coming from literally inches away, you can greatly lower the volume level and still get a really nice tactile response.

Link

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I read recently an article which suggested that renters in apartments should consider placing in-wall/infloor subwoofers in their furniture so that they can get the same tactile response they would get with a larger subwoofer without the annoyed neighbors. Some technical knowledge would be needed in order to make this work me thinks.



Link

That is not a bad idea, and something that did occur to me when I was installing bass shakers in my sofa. I have two consoles in my sofa that could be very easily modified to be subwoofer enclosures. If I had the right tools for wood cutting... I would probably try it.

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I'm going to catch the ire of some folks here for this, but I would rather buy one quality than two cheap subs. You can always add another quality sub later, but you can't just trade them out if you don't like the cheap ones.

I think that is a very sensible suggestion.

[kingofgrills]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I'm going to catch the ire of some folks here for this, but I would rather buy one quality than two cheap subs. You can always add another quality sub later, but you can't just trade them out if you don't like the cheap ones.

If I had the budget, I'd buy one SVS sub before I'd buy two PA-120's, and that's from someone that owns one and loves it.

+100. Subs can make - or break - a system. There's nothing worse than hearing poor quality subs chuffing away in a system. I think buying the best single sub you can for the money is always the best alternative.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I'm going to catch the ire of some folks here for this, but I would rather buy one quality than two cheap subs. You can always add another quality sub later, but you can't just trade them out if you don't like the cheap ones.

If I had the budget, I'd buy one SVS sub before I'd buy two PA-120's, and that's from someone that owns one and loves it.

I want the best performance I can get, whether it's from one sub or two. I know AA subs aren't the end-all of subs, but they have many positive reviews and from what I can tell are solid performers, which is why I thought that putting two of them together would be the best option considering my budget.

What would you suggest?

Originally Posted by erict

One thing to also consider as well is since you live in an apartment don't under buy. You will be better off over buying so you might be better equipped if you ever move.

I don't plan to, if I have need to, I can always turn the volume down.

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I read recently an article which suggested that renters in apartments should consider placing in-wall/infloor subwoofers in their furniture so that they can get the same tactile response they would get with a larger subwoofer without the annoyed neighbors. Some technical knowledge would be needed in order to make this work me thinks.

This isn't a bad idea, and in-wall subs are cheaper (some of them at least), but I want something that I can use after I move out. I'll read up on it some more though, maybe I'll use one instead of buttkickers eventually.

Originally Posted by kingofgrills

+100. Subs can make - or break - a system. There's nothing worse than hearing poor quality subs chuffing away in a system. I think buying the best single sub you can for the money is always the best alternative.

I completely agree. Considering my budget, which I could probably stretch to $400 (see what you guys have already done ), what would you say is the best sub I can get?

[Driver_King]

Dual PA-120's.

[Big Daddy]

Jwilly,

If you decide to buy the AA sub, don't buy them at those prices. Check their Ebay store and make an offer. You can buy them at significantly lower prices. Currently, they are out of stock on most models. I have no idea when they will be back in stock.

Originally Posted by aramis109

I'm going to catch the ire of some folks here for this, but I would rather buy one quality than two cheap subs. You can always add another quality sub later, but you can't just trade them out if you don't like the cheap ones.

If I had the budget, I'd buy one SVS sub before I'd buy two PA-120's, and that's from someone that owns one and loves it.

I don't believe the hypothesis of multiple subwoofers is about a choice between two inferior subwoofers versus a very high quality subwoofer. The basic theory states that two subwoofers from a manufacturer, even smaller subs, perform better than one larger subwoofer from the same manufacturer. I believe Audioholics did this test with two smaller Axiom subwoofers versus their kick-ass larger subwoofer.

If I have a choice between two AA HD SUB-10 subs versus one AA HD SUB-12, I would pick the two SUB-10 subwoofers. For the same reason, I would buy two HD-SUB12 over a single HD-SUB15.

Obviously, if the choice was between one JL Audio sub and two PA subs, I would pick the JL sub, but I would also immediately get a second job to raise enough money for a second JL sub.

In almost all cases, two subs perform better than one sub. Unfortunately, in my case, I have never seen or heard a sub I didn't like. I am a subwoofer addict. Currently, I own 11 subwoofers and I am building another large one today. I have to go. My fingers are sore.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Jwilly,

If you decide to buy the AA sub, don't buy them at those prices. Check their Ebay store and make an offer. You can buy them at significantly lower prices. Currently, they are out of stock on most models. I have no idea when they will be back in stock.

I thought that was a bit high. I'll keep my eye on their prices/inventory. Still got a couple of months.

I don't believe the hypothesis of multiple subwoofers is about a choice between two inferior subwoofers versus a very high quality subwoofer. The basic theory states that two subwoofers from a manufacturer, even smaller subs, perform better than one larger subwoofer from the same manufacturer. I believe Audioholics did this test with two smaller Axiom subwoofers versus their kick-ass larger subwoofer.

If I have a choice between two AA HD SUB-10 subs versus one AA HD SUB-12, I would pick the two SUB-10 subwoofers. For the same reason, I would buy two HD-SUB12 over a single HD-SUB15.

Obviously, if the choice was between one JL Audio sub and two PA subs, I would pick the JL sub, but I would also immediately get a second job to raise enough money for a second JL sub.

In almost all cases, two subs perform better than one sub. Unfortunately, in my case, I have never seen or heard a sub I didn't like. I am a subwoofer addict. Currently, I own 11 subwoofers and I am building another large one today. I have to go. My fingers are sore.

Is it important to keep the drivers the same size? I would think not, but you're the resident expert...with 11 subs (soon to be 12).

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

Is it important to keep the drivers the same size? I would think not, but you're the resident expert...with 11 subs (soon to be 12).

It is much better for multiple subwoofers to be identical. They are much easier to set up and work together better. However, this does not mean that different subwoofers cannot work together. It just takes more time to adjust their levels and place them properly. I am the proof that different subwoofers can work together, but I am insane and spend hours or days adjusting and tweaking them.

[Animo]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

This isn't the first one I've seen.
where do you guys go to mock up great floor plans like these?
I only found a bare bones plan at Better Homes & Gardens.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by Animo

This isn't the first one I've seen.
where do you guys go to mock up great floor plans like these?
I only found a bare bones plan at Better Homes & Gardens.

I know some people use Google Sketch-up. Also, you could use one of the Autodesk programs (either AutoCAD or Revit). Though the Autodesk programs are quite expensive. The floor plan that I posted was one on the apartment's website, I didn't add anything to it.

[Animo]

Originally Posted by Jwilly019

I know some people use Google Sketch-up. Also, you could use one of the Autodesk programs (either AutoCAD or Revit). Though the Autodesk programs are quite expensive. The floor plan that I posted was one on the apartment's website, I didn't add anything to it.

BigRed sent me to Google Sketch up. I couldn't figure it out.

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by Animo

BigRed sent me to Google Sketch up. I couldn't figure it out.

I've never actually used it, just seen what other have done. Sorry I couldn't be more help.