Shows that were filmed in 4:3 - Blu-ray Forum

redsoxfan626 · 01-20-2010, 01:08 AM

I know that early seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm, all of Seinfeld, and at least season one of The Sopranos were shot in 4:3. Do any of you own season one of The Sopranos on BD? If so, how much better does it look than the DVD version? And would there be a big difference on Curb or Seinfeld? If there's just a marginal difference than I'd probably just buy the DVDs now, because if/when those shows come out on BD, they'd be expensive.

TM2-Megatron · 01-20-2010, 01:23 AM

Not being widescreen doesn't make these things low quality. All those shows can still look worlds better than their DVD equivalents. Like older movies would, they simply appear pillarboxed when viewed on a 16:9 TV. Depending on the aspect ratio, their picture is usually around 1440x1080 pixels (for example, the actual image on Pinocchio is 1452x1078).

redsoxfan626 · 01-20-2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

Not being widescreen doesn't make these things low quality. All those shows can still look worlds better than their DVD equivalents. Like older movies would, they simply appear pillarboxed when viewed on a 16:9 TV. Depending on the aspect ratio, their picture is usually around 1440x1080 pixels (for example, the actual image on Pinocchio is 1452x1078).

I honestly don't know much about these things, but I was reading about older TV shows being shot on film and how they wouldn't be impacted significantly in a BD release.

TM2-Megatron · 01-20-2010, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsoxfan626

I honestly don't know much about these things, but I was reading about older TV shows being shot on film and how they wouldn't be impacted significantly in a BD release.

The vast majority of "old" movies were shot on film, too. Digital video cameras haven't exactly been around that long... does that stop something like Blade Runner or the original Star Wars films from looking good on Blu-Ray?

In the case of some lower-budget shows that weren't necessarily filmed on 35mm film, it's true that they probably won't look as good as Blu-Rays transferred from a more ideal medium, but they'll still look better than they might've on DVD.

Atreyu · 01-20-2010, 06:18 AM

The only shows I think that would not look better on blu were some from the 70's that were shot on videotape, like the Norman Lear comedies. They are horrible and blurry on standard dvd and I can just imagine how blu would bring out the deficiencies inherint in the masters on a grander scale. Older shows were shot on film and would, with few exeptions, look better on blu.

Damage Inc. · 01-20-2010, 08:24 AM

What about 'Friends', would it be a LOT better on BD?
I just started watching from the very first again and was shocked to see how blurry and stuff it actually looks.
It was kind of the look of the show, but especially since I didn't remember it being this bad.
However, it seems to have improved through the first 20 episodes to just a little better.

I was thinking, this might be because of them being very early recordings.
But it still seems kind of compressed because of being DVD-quality, you know.
I'll have to wait until I get to season 2 or 3 or even later and see how those are.

I'm having a hard time deciding on this one, if I should get a BD-set if there ever will be one.
I got this as a present and I'd feel bad just replacing it.

Well, maybe I can still get it eventually in addition to the DVD-set, as I love the show, but myeah...
Especially if there will be more extras, that would definitely be a good incentive to me.
Oh well, think there will be quite some time using the DVDs before (and if) a BD-set comes out.

Edit:

Oh wait, I just noticed the first season has a release-page, but no info or release-date so...

partridge · 01-20-2010, 11:23 AM

I was surprised to see Friends announced as a blu-ray release; I thought it was shot on video? And yes, it is very soft looking. If they can clean it up and make it look pristine then I'll give it a look, if only for a bit of HD Jennifer Aniston!

You could always tell if it was chilly...

ryoohki · 01-20-2010, 03:18 PM

I hope they release the original Battlestar Galactica one day. It was shot on 35mm technicolor according to IMDB, but i doubt Universal would put any money on them to rescan them properly (like Paramount did for Star Trek)

Nerdkiller likes BD · 01-20-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoohki

I hope they release the original Battlestar Galactica one day. It was shot on 35mm technicolor according to IMDB, but i doubt Universal would put any money on them to rescan them properly (like Paramount did for Star Trek)

I was thinking about something similar with Babylon 5. That was shot in 16:9 on film I believe. That could have a credible chance to appear on BD.

lobosrul · 01-20-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partridge

I was surprised to see Friends announced as a blu-ray release; I thought it was shot on video? And yes, it is very soft looking. If they can clean it up and make it look pristine then I'll give it a look, if only for a bit of HD Jennifer Aniston!

You could always tell if it was chilly...

It was filmed on 35mm, but I don't think theres an official announcement for it on BD. There was one somewhere, but it was revealed as a hoax. I'd love to see it in HD though.

P@t_Mtl · 01-20-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdkiller likes BD

I was thinking about something similar with Babylon 5. That was shot in 16:9 on film I believe. That could have a credible chance to appear on BD.

If they were to release B5 with new effect shots like they have done for Star Trek, I would be all over the 5 seasons again. I got them on DVD but would rebuy them all on BD in a minutes. One of the greatest scifi shows of the last 30 years

krazeyeyez · 01-20-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

If they were to release B5 with new effect shots like they have done for Star Trek, I would be all over the 5 seasons again. I got them on DVD but would rebuy them all on BD in a minutes. One of the greatest scifi shows of the last 30 years

+1 even on dvd they look dang good for how old they are, and a head of their time considering when they came out and they were already using widescreen and dolby surround. Some of the CGI even looks decent at least in some of the later stuff as they built on scenes they had already done.

Would be all over that on day one, new special effects or not.

ZoetMB · 01-20-2010, 09:08 PM

You cannot judge the quality of shows like Friends when you're watching them in syndication or on cable. You are not watching the original version of the show that was shown over the network (NBC). You're watching re-edited copies, which although digital, can be many generations away from the original film negative.

But having said that, do not confuse film and video. This is a big problem today. Consumers who don't know better don't want to see any film grain. Grain is part of the original aesthetic of the film. When the studios listen to such complaints, we wind up with BD movies that look like soap operas, not movies.

Friends was originall shot on film. It should look like film. That's why it looks warm. A show like American Idol is shot on video. Very different look.

From another posting, I see that The Sopranos was supposedly shot in Super-35. I'm a little surprised by this because Super-35 is usually used for a 2.35 to 2.39:1 presentation in theaters. Personally, I've always hated that format. The way that format works is that it's shot two frames high instead of the standard four frames high. When the negative is printed, it's vertically stretched to be four frames high. Now the print is the same basic standard as any Panavision "squeezed" anamorphic print. Then it's projected with an anamorphic lens to stretch it horizontally and restore the proper aspect ratio. The reason why producers use this format is because it saves film costs and it gives a greater choice of lenses. But the disadvantage is that you're using much less of the negative area and you wind up with grain the size of golf balls. (I know I said that film should have grain, but not this much.)

Damage Inc. · 01-20-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Friends was originall shot on film. It should look like film. That's why it looks warm.

It's not the specific look of the colors and what not.
It's about that it all looks fuzzy and blurry and what not in the earlier seasons.
But I think that definitely has to do with the budget to start with.
You could definitely see the show in the late '90s and on to the end look much more... "quality"-like.
Just sharper and clearer and what not.

Plus on top of that, older shows probably don't look that great on DVD compared to newer recordings on DVD.
I do think it might make quite a difference in HD, but just wondering if the old films would still be in good condition.
And if they were such good quality anyway...
So if we could expect them to look a lot better or not.

Well, apparently they did a great job on shows like 'Star Trek', but I'm not sure if that's comparable.

lobosrul · 01-20-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

You cannot judge the quality of shows like Friends when you're watching them in syndication or on cable. You are not watching the original version of the show that was shown over the network (NBC). You're watching re-edited copies, which although digital, can be many generations away from the original film negative.

But having said that, do not confuse film and video. This is a big problem today. Consumers who don't know better don't want to see any film grain. Grain is part of the original aesthetic of the film. When the studios listen to such complaints, we wind up with BD movies that look like soap operas, not movies.

Friends was originall shot on film. It should look like film. That's why it looks warm. A show like American Idol is shot on video. Very different look.

From another posting, I see that The Sopranos was supposedly shot in Super-35. I'm a little surprised by this because Super-35 is usually used for a 2.35 to 2.39:1 presentation in theaters. Personally, I've always hated that format. The way that format works is that it's shot two frames high instead of the standard four frames high. When the negative is printed, it's vertically stretched to be four frames high. Now the print is the same basic standard as any Panavision "squeezed" anamorphic print. Then it's projected with an anamorphic lens to stretch it horizontally and restore the proper aspect ratio. The reason why producers use this format is because it saves film costs and it gives a greater choice of lenses. But the disadvantage is that you're using much less of the negative area and you wind up with grain the size of golf balls. (I know I said that film should have grain, but not this much.)

Actually Super 35 uses the entire space of a 4-perf negative. Including the area normally used for an optical sound track. For a 2.4:1 movie a portion of the frame is cropped off for anamorphic prints. I believe your confusing it with Techniscope, which is 2-perf 35. Super 35 was very commonly used on TV shows before the switch to 16:9 AR.

Super 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Techniscope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Something like American Idol is shot using some sort of digital system. Maybe HD digital tape, I don't know. Thats not the same thing as an older TV show (Three's Company of example) that was shot on analog tape, and not really capable of being given an HD transfer.

KubrickFan · 01-21-2010, 09:05 AM

Super35 is sometimes used on movies with a 1.85:1 ratio too, it uses more of the film frame and that gives it a higher quality than regular spherically shot 1.85:1 movies.

Dynamo of Eternia · 01-21-2010, 02:31 PM

Even if 4:3 shows like Seinfeld come to Blu-Ray and look a lot better in hi-def, I doubt I'll rebuy them.

From what I've seen so far (in terms of both hi-def broadcasts and Blu-Ray releases of 4:3 content), I don't like how they tend to be handled.

P@t_Mtl · 01-21-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazeyeyez

+1 even on dvd they look dang good for how old they are, and a head of their time considering when they came out and they were already using widescreen and dolby surround. Some of the CGI even looks decent at least in some of the later stuff as they built on scenes they had already done.

Would be all over that on day one, new special effects or not.

I am not sure how they could transfert them as they are now because of the effect shots. The trouble usually for most scifi shows are the effect shots that were done in a different format which can cause trouble for the transfert. Still if they were to release them on BD without new effects, I would buy them again but not on release date, I would wait a while for prices to drop on them.

krazeyeyez · 01-22-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I am not sure how they could transfert them as they are now because of the effect shots. The trouble usually for most scifi shows are the effect shots that were done in a different format which can cause trouble for the transfert. Still if they were to release them on BD without new effects, I would buy them again but not on release date, I would wait a while for prices to drop on them.

true, hadn't thought of that... but unlike trek and a few others models were not used, just pure cgi shots, and really not that many since most were re used as is or built upon to add more detail rather then create fresh shots. Being CGI though wouldn't it be less of a problem then say models photographed on different film and/or tape.

Clark Kent · 01-24-2010, 11:15 PM

Unless a protected 16x9 framing exists for a broadcast show (rarely the case but it has happened), I am fine with HD shows in a 1.33:1 aspect ratio on Blu-ray. What has become a troubling trend is the inclusion of fake bars on the side to fill the screen, like on the Highlander: Season One Blu-ray for 4x3 material.

01-20-2010, 01:08 AM	#1
redsoxfan626 Member Member since:Jan 2010	Shows that were filmed in 4:3 I know that early seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm, all of Seinfeld, and at least season one of The Sopranos were shot in 4:3. Do any of you own season one of The Sopranos on BD? If so, how much better does it look than the DVD version? And would there be a big difference on Curb or Seinfeld? If there's just a marginal difference than I'd probably just buy the DVDs now, because if/when those shows come out on BD, they'd be expensive.

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01-20-2010, 01:23 AM	#2
TM2-Megatron Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Dec 2009 Location:Toronto, Canada 4K collection:1418 Blu-ray collection:5759 DVD collection:140 Trading Score:2	Not being widescreen doesn't make these things low quality. All those shows can still look worlds better than their DVD equivalents. Like older movies would, they simply appear pillarboxed when viewed on a 16:9 TV. Depending on the aspect ratio, their picture is usually around 1440x1080 pixels (for example, the actual image on Pinocchio is 1452x1078).

01-20-2010, 06:18 AM	#5
Atreyu Blu-ray Knight Member since:Dec 2008 Location:North Carolina 4K collection:370 Blu-ray collection:1876 DVD collection:619 Digital collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 293 Trading Score:4	The only shows I think that would not look better on blu were some from the 70's that were shot on videotape, like the Norman Lear comedies. They are horrible and blurry on standard dvd and I can just imagine how blu would bring out the deficiencies inherint in the masters on a grander scale. Older shows were shot on film and would, with few exeptions, look better on blu.

01-20-2010, 08:24 AM	#6
Damage Inc. Blu-ray Guru Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:The Netherlands 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:384 DVD collection:5	What about 'Friends', would it be a LOT better on BD? I just started watching from the very first again and was shocked to see how blurry and stuff it actually looks. It was kind of the look of the show, but especially since I didn't remember it being this bad. However, it seems to have improved through the first 20 episodes to just a little better. I was thinking, this might be because of them being very early recordings. But it still seems kind of compressed because of being DVD-quality, you know. I'll have to wait until I get to season 2 or 3 or even later and see how those are. I'm having a hard time deciding on this one, if I should get a BD-set if there ever will be one. I got this as a present and I'd feel bad just replacing it. Well, maybe I can still get it eventually in addition to the DVD-set, as I love the show, but myeah... Especially if there will be more extras, that would definitely be a good incentive to me. Oh well, think there will be quite some time using the DVDs before (and if) a BD-set comes out. Edit: Oh wait, I just noticed the first season has a release-page, but no info or release-date so...

01-20-2010, 11:23 AM	#7
partridge Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2005 Location:England	I was surprised to see Friends announced as a blu-ray release; I thought it was shot on video? And yes, it is very soft looking. If they can clean it up and make it look pristine then I'll give it a look, if only for a bit of HD Jennifer Aniston! You could always tell if it was chilly...

01-20-2010, 03:18 PM	#8
ryoohki Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2007 Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:6 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:5	I hope they release the original Battlestar Galactica one day. It was shot on 35mm technicolor according to IMDB, but i doubt Universal would put any money on them to rescan them properly (like Paramount did for Star Trek)

01-20-2010, 09:08 PM	#13
ZoetMB Blu-ray Ninja Member since:May 2009 Location:New York Blu-ray collection:172 DVD collection:27 Blu-ray reviews: 3	You cannot judge the quality of shows like Friends when you're watching them in syndication or on cable. You are not watching the original version of the show that was shown over the network (NBC). You're watching re-edited copies, which although digital, can be many generations away from the original film negative. But having said that, do not confuse film and video. This is a big problem today. Consumers who don't know better don't want to see any film grain. Grain is part of the original aesthetic of the film. When the studios listen to such complaints, we wind up with BD movies that look like soap operas, not movies. Friends was originall shot on film. It should look like film. That's why it looks warm. A show like American Idol is shot on video. Very different look. From another posting, I see that The Sopranos was supposedly shot in Super-35. I'm a little surprised by this because Super-35 is usually used for a 2.35 to 2.39:1 presentation in theaters. Personally, I've always hated that format. The way that format works is that it's shot two frames high instead of the standard four frames high. When the negative is printed, it's vertically stretched to be four frames high. Now the print is the same basic standard as any Panavision "squeezed" anamorphic print. Then it's projected with an anamorphic lens to stretch it horizontally and restore the proper aspect ratio. The reason why producers use this format is because it saves film costs and it gives a greater choice of lenses. But the disadvantage is that you're using much less of the negative area and you wind up with grain the size of golf balls. (I know I said that film should have grain, but not this much.)

01-21-2010, 09:05 AM	#16
KubrickFan Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Mar 2009 Blu-ray collection:319	Super35 is sometimes used on movies with a 1.85:1 ratio too, it uses more of the film frame and that gives it a higher quality than regular spherically shot 1.85:1 movies.

01-21-2010, 02:31 PM	#17
Dynamo of Eternia Blu-ray Knight Top contributor Member since:Dec 2007 4K collection:335 Blu-ray collection:1857 DVD collection:1573 Trading Score:3	Even if 4:3 shows like Seinfeld come to Blu-Ray and look a lot better in hi-def, I doubt I'll rebuy them. From what I've seen so far (in terms of both hi-def broadcasts and Blu-Ray releases of 4:3 content), I don't like how they tend to be handled.

01-24-2010, 11:15 PM	#20
Clark Kent Blu-ray Prince Top contributor Member since:Oct 2007 Location:Metropolis Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:184	Unless a protected 16x9 framing exists for a broadcast show (rarely the case but it has happened), I am fine with HD shows in a 1.33:1 aspect ratio on Blu-ray. What has become a troubling trend is the inclusion of fake bars on the side to fill the screen, like on the Highlander: Season One Blu-ray for 4x3 material.

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