Honest Question - Triple Layer HD-DVD

[cathexist]

I don't support HD-DVD at all, at times it makes me quite angry...and this triple layer crap is getting on my nerves:

Just a simple honest question about this "approved" Triple Layer HD-DVD disc that people have been talking about.

Why is the capacity 51GB and not 45?

Since HD-DVD is 15gigs per a layer...wouldn't 45 make sense.

I'm sure this question has been answered somewhere, but I really have no clue.

So if the disc IS 51, why don't they have 34gig dual layer discs, or 17 gig single layer discs...

I'm just confused

[The Guardian]

From what I understand they are putting data in closer to the edge of the disc, something like when CDs went up to 700 megs from the previous 650 I think it was.

[xtop]

i was wondering the same thing. thought it was strange how they found an extra 6 gigs lol

[Beta-guy]

I mentioned this what TL51 was first annouced first off I doubt it will be compatible, the triple layer thing should work, apparently they designed it for TL45 but when they change the size of the layer they altered a core spec, I doubt a 36GB per layer BD disc would remain compatible with current players.

but once they made 17 GB per layer and assuming it's 100% compatible the HD-DVD users will have to ask themselves "why hasn't toshiba been doing this all along?" right now all we can do is wait, if it is released see if it's compatible, what the failure rate is on those discs and how much they they cost (in comparison to our 50GB discs) I honestly don't think we have anything to fear from these discs.

[jorg]

Originally Posted by cathexist

I don't support HD-DVD at all, at times it makes me quite angry...and this triple layer crap is getting on my nerves:

Just a simple honest question about this "approved" Triple Layer HD-DVD disc that people have been talking about.

Why is the capacity 51GB and not 45?

Since HD-DVD is 15gigs per a layer...wouldn't 45 make sense.

I'm sure this question has been answered somewhere, but I really have no clue.

So if the disc IS 51, why don't they have 34gig dual layer discs, or 17 gig single layer discs...

I'm just confused

it is becuase each layer is 17 gigs and it is becuase data is closer to the inner and outer edge the thing is the fourm only aproved "part 1" physcal specs so un;ess they just wanted to mess with [pople there will be another part to it. the reason why is becuase 17 gigs was not part of teh original spec and not compatiabel wit first gen players

[xtop]

i'm so tired of seeing everyone say how it wont work in current players and all the other nonsense. nobody knows whether it will or not, so stop spreading lies

lets not stoop to their levels and just blatantly make things up.

[xtop]

i'm so tired of seeing everyone say how it wont work in current players and all the other nonsense. nobody knows whether it will or not, so stop spreading lies

lets not stoop to their levels and just blatantly make things up.

[bhampton]

TL51 = Publicity stunt.

They are still voting on what that format should be. (I read a vote on physical specifications was made recently, before that the file system spec was voted on I believe,... they will keep voting on crap as time goes on but will the product ever exist,.. I doubt it.)

It's just a lab experiement that was aiming to try to show that in some ways HD DUD could make up for some of it's lacking specs.

It will never come to market for movies,.. I'll bet a doughnut.

-Brian

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by cathexist

I don't support HD-DVD at all, at times it makes me quite angry...and this triple layer crap is getting on my nerves:

Just a simple honest question about this "approved" Triple Layer HD-DVD disc that people have been talking about.

Why is the capacity 51GB and not 45?

Since HD-DVD is 15gigs per a layer...wouldn't 45 make sense.

I'm sure this question has been answered somewhere, but I really have no clue.

So if the disc IS 51, why don't they have 34gig dual layer discs, or 17 gig single layer discs...

I'm just confused

Many have already answered your question, so to move on. Bandwidth is still limited. This is what is hamstringing HD DVD. Until they can come up with a way to bump the bandwidth up, HD DVD will always be inferior.

If they ever come up with a way to increase the bandwidth, they would basically become the same as BR and will have confirmed that BR is indeed the superior format.

[Nicadian]

More like fancy coaster.

[coolmilo]

They went for a 51 GB disc for marketing reasons (it would be tough to market a 45 GB disc against a 50 GB blu-ray disc). They will say that their disc has more capacity than the Blu-ray 50 GB disc (by 1 GB). However, the BDA's next bump should be a 100GB Blu-ray disc. Beat that HD DUD.

I still have my doubts if this new disc will even make it to market. There is nothing left in the HD DUD camp to crow about and so talking about a higher capacity disc is something to generate news.

[Beta-guy]

I say I doubt it'll be compatible, because I do indeed doubt it, I'm not saying there's not way it'll be compatible, there is the possibility but with 3 layers the price of the disc will go up and possibly the failure rate on TL51 as well, all in all I really don't think TL51 is ready for the world. Compatible or not TL51 has to deal wth some potential issues to jump over before it'll become mainstream.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by MatrixS2000

Many have already answered your question, so to move on. Bandwidth is still limited. This is what is hamstringing HD DVD. Until they can come up with a way to bump the bandwidth up, HD DVD will always be inferior.

If they ever come up with a way to increase the bandwidth, they would basically become the same as BR and will have confirmed that BR is indeed the superior format.

Post from another thread on the same topic.

No one really cares about TL51 because it's an HD DVD talking point only today (which is squashed with the 100GB BR disk).

[w_tanoto]

they are just trying to beat BD capacity. If it's 1 GB less per layer, that would be 48GB, and won't beat BD.

Besides, it won't affect anything. No titles announced. If it is, we don't know if it will work in current player. And it's too late.

[w_tanoto]

I wouldn't say it won't work, but I would say nobody knows if it will work

[sj001]

They will spin this forever, I'd say, we'll talk whenever they ACTUALLY release it.

[Imakida]

Toshiba surely actually knows if the disc will play in existent players. If it plays, there are reasons they are not making an announcement. Either it doesn't play, either it play but they experience problems and they want them resolve before making an announcement (and perhaps they won't be able to resolve the problem..). That's just my guess..

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by xtop

i'm so tired of seeing everyone say how it wont work in current players and all the other nonsense. nobody knows whether it will or not, so stop spreading lies

lets not stoop to their levels and just blatantly make things up.

It's not being made up. Several times Toshiba engineers have been quoted as saying current players can't be updated for TL51.

Whether this is the case, remains to be seen. But, ignoring that information and declaring that members are making stuff up isn't fair.

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

It's not being made up. Several times Toshiba engineers have been quoted as saying current players can't be updated for TL51.

There was an article, linked from some post on this forum, in which Toshiba engineers were quoted saying that very thing. Wish I'd bookmarked it at the time; the search has become a painful slog through previous posts.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by cathexist

So if the disc IS 51, why don't they have 34gig dual layer discs, or 17 gig single layer discs...

I'm just confused

The TL51 (and the general 17GB per layer geometry) doesn't exist for use until final approval in the HD DVD spec.

I would think if it does happen, then 17/34 will be possible configurations. Those should merely be a change in the density of the stamping master, so should be possible on existing lines.

But of course, the use all depends on the compatibility with current players. A studio will not risk it until it has shown to be compatible with a sufficient percentage of the installed base. That would seem to be catch-22 for sure.

Gary