HD-DVD creates a triple layer hybrid

[Stef Nighthawk]

woohoo.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/n...nd+HD+DVD.html

Press seems to be taking this news-item as another "we don't know a thing about blu-ray, but if HD-DVD creates it, it must be good" article. (Tweakers.net, www.hln.be, www.neowin.net and probably other news/tech sites)

Well if they would have checked the BDA FAQ they would now that this thing exists already for Blu-ray and that Blu-ray has a 50GB BR + 8.5GB DVD hybrid in the works.

And the comments on sites like www.neowin.net are often arrogant and misinformed.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

It really doesn't matter anyway. How many people you know that has a dual format DVD? I don't know any. I haven't seen any stats on their sales. It is, most likely, a very small niche market. IMO, that is why the BDA has decided not to run with the dual format DVDs even though they (JVC) developed the dual format disc first.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Stef Nighthawk

woohoo.

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/n...nd+HD+DVD.html

Press seems to be taking this news-item as another "we don't know a thing about blu-ray, but if HD-DVD creates it, it must be good" article. (Tweakers.net, www.hln.be, www.neowin.net and probably other news/tech sites)

Well if they would have checked the BDA FAQ they would now that this thing exists already for Blu-ray and that Blu-ray has a 50GB BR + 8.5GB DVD hybrid in the works.

And the comments on sites like www.neowin.net are often arrogant and misinformed.

Show me ONE Blu-Ray disc that has a DVD ROM layer and BD ROM layer that has actually shipped as product. You do realize that this new Triple Layer approach is just an improvement to the "currently shipping" dual layer Twin Disc formats. Twin Disc for HD DVD isn't some lab creation that TDK or JVC trot out and conventions ...it's a shipping product.

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

it really doesn't matter anyway. How many people you know that has a dual format DVD? I don't know any. I haven't seen any stats on their sales. It is, most likely, a very small niche market. IMO, that is why the BDA has decided not to run with the dual format DVDs even though they (JVC) developed the dual format disc first.

You must be confused. Twin Disc is the more efficient form of the flipper Combo disc. It's a single sided disc with both Blue and Red Laser layers. So now a studio can ship a disc with art that will play in the home HD DVD player and the DVD player that came in their SUV/Minivan.

Not everyone is going to have a HD player in ever facet of their life. If you cannot see the benefits of this then perhaps you don't understand the ramifications involved. Both formats are a niche market but Twin Disc is shipping now in Dual Layer form and now there's a Triple Layer format in the works. I'm thinking the most popular solution for longer play movies will be the 30/4.7GB discs where as short programs can get by with 15/9GB if need be. Either was the flexibility of Twin disc is unparalled as Blu-Ray doesn't have anything like it that is actually supported in the spec and likely never will.

That's not a slight on Blu-Ray as much as some of you will take it but it's more of an acknowledgment that the design of HD DVD lends itself to these things a bit better. Let us not forget that HD DVD owns some superiority over Blu-Ray in areas as well.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Show me ONE Blu-Ray disc that has a DVD ROM layer and BD ROM layer that has actually shipped as product. You do realize that this new Triple Layer approach is just an improvement to the "currently shipping" dual layer Twin Disc formats.

Yep - an improvement to a product nobody wants.

Do you know anyone with no HD DVD player that has bought a combo disc?

Especially with the current pricing and atmosphere in the HD disc world, these combo discs are useless. They are hardly futureproof unless Bluray goes away.

Sadly some titles are only available on these overpriced combo HD DVDs - making the BD equivalent movie much better value for money.

[hmurchison]

Well many have had to buy combo discs by default.

I plan on buying Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and ATL pretty soon. Both are great looking combo discs that I'll be able to enjoy right away as I don't have an HD DVD player yet.

look how long it took for families to have DVD players in every facet of their lives from computing to cars to set top players. I'm expecting nigh a decade for HD penetration to hit this level as well.

DVD playback isn't going anywhere. Look at how many new products continue to ship with VHS decks built in to see how important legacy support truly is. If people weren't asking for it...these products wouldn't exist.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I plan on buying Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and ATL pretty soon. Both are great looking combo discs that I'll be able to enjoy right away as I don't have an HD DVD player yet.

I understand the concept. Just not the pricing.

It it was a $5 adder over the DVD price it would be sensible.

$5-$10 over the HD DVD price is almost twice as much as the DVD. That makes no sense to me.

Really in order to get the mass of DVD buyers to get the combo disc 'just in case' it has to be priced to interest the mass of DVD buyers.

[JTK]

Almost no point whatsoever in an HD owner buying a combo disc.

ABSOLUTELY NO point in an SD owner buying a combo disc, especially in a format war environment. Never happen. Useless. Complete waste of money.

I'm not a fan of the combos whatsoever.

[ethan]

Having 2 dvd layers and 1 hddvd layer makes the hddvd part nearly useless with 15Gb, and having 2 hddvd layers and 1 dvd layer makes a sub-par compressed dvd.

Who would pay MORE for this, considering they don't have an hddvd player yet?

There's no market for this thing. It's a publicity stunt, nothing more. Gives a false sense of security to the current hddvd owners and gives then something to pollute the forums with.

[hmurchison]

funny that many of you complain about the cost of a combo disc when the current shipping BD players are twice the price of the equivalent HD DVD player.

Why are the increased costs of Combo discs somehow unacceptable yet paying more for an underquipped Blu-Ray player is?

[Ascended_Saiyan]

Originally Posted by phloyd

I understand the concept. Just not the pricing.

It it was a $5 adder over the DVD price it would be sensible.

$5-$10 over the HD DVD price is almost twice as much as the DVD. That makes no sense to me.

Really in order to get the mass of DVD buyers to get the combo disc 'just in case' it has to be priced to interest the mass of DVD buyers.

Exactly!

[JTK]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

funny that many of you complain about the cost of a combo disc when the current shipping BD players are twice the price of the equivalent HD DVD player.

Hardware wise? You get what you pay for, especially in about two months.

Well informed shoppers aren't going to pay anywhere close to MSRP anyways.


We're talking about SOFTWARE, so you're trying to deflect the subject matter with comments like these.

Why are the increased costs of Combo discs somehow unacceptable yet paying more for an underquipped Blu-Ray player is?

vs. a buggy poor man's HTPC like the HD-DVD players are?

You get what you pay for.

Ups and downs on both sides.

Even on a pro HD-DVD forum like AVS, you simply can't miss and ignore the numerous bug and complaint threads, even with FW 2.0. And that's before you get into the large user threads.

The Samsung BD player is dropping in prices and there's even threads on AVS about that.

The rest of the hardware coming out in the next few months will be darned good for first gen. God knows that hardware will be better than anything HD-DVD has coming down the pike.

All they've got coming is more Toshiba poor man HTPC's, some Lite On, Some HP, and maybe some NEC. That's it. <- Some of this is PC only and not even for home theater, but who cares if it is? HD-DVD needs to have more than this going for it. HD-DVD also needs more than 40-50 percent studio support, but we've all argued that a million times by now.


You know who the big boys are for BD and what they're putting out. It isn't even close.





BUT THIS IS ALL IRRELEVANT!
You're putting words in people's mouths with these irrelevant examples and comments/questions.

Please stay on topic: Software. Try and argue your actual points, if you can.

[ethan]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

funny that many of you complain about the cost of a combo disc when the current shipping BD players are twice the price of the equivalent HD DVD player.

You misread my post. I said on both cases, you pay more for less, and there isn't any market for that, except a manipulative one.

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Why are the increased costs of Combo discs somehow unacceptable yet paying more for an underquipped Blu-Ray player is?

Oh? Do I own a bluray player?

[ethan]

Why don't we just ignore him, he's clearly doing it for attention.

[Psiweaver]

Because in another month those blu-ray players won't be underequipped. They will also be made by a brand that makes high end quality equipment as opposed to one that makes middle of the road equipment, of which most is rebranded oem anyways.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by Psiweaver

...as opposed to one that makes middle of the road equipment, of which most is rebranded oem anyways.

Poor man's HTPC. Junk.

[Psiweaver]

well yeah its junk too i'm just saying look at the product lines in general of say panasonic, pioneer and sony and compare that to toshiba. Toshiba doesn't make state of the art plasmas nor state of the art lcd's like samsung, sharp and sony all blu-ray backers. Its interesting to see that toshiba doesn't innovate that much in the a/v market yet many think they can make a format.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

hmurchison:
"Why are the increased costs of Combo discs somehow unacceptable yet paying more for an underquipped Blu-Ray player is?"

The simple answer is because the Blu-ray player is a one time purchase. They are asking people to constantly purchase a gimmick at $40. If you buy just 12 of those, you equal the price of a HD-DVD player. Now THAT doesn't make any sense.

[hmurchison]

ATL
http://www.amazon.com/ATL-Combo-HD-D...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd $27

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
http://www.amazon.com/Kiss-Bang-Comb...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

Slither
http://www.amazon.com/Slither-DVD-HD...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd $24.95

Fast Times at Ridgemont High
http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Times-Rid...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd $23.95

Combo discs vary in price. I'm certainly not paying $35.95 for

http://www.amazon.com/Waist-Deep-DVD...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

or

http://www.amazon.com/Break-Up-HD-DV...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

But wait! There's more!

Kingdom of Heaven on Blu-Ray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-of-Hea...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

Speed on Blu-Ray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Speed/dp/B000I...567242?ie=UTF8

The Transporter Blu-Ray
http://www.amazon.com/Transporter/dp...567242?ie=UTF8


So again I will ask you. Why should I complain about Combo discs when

A) They provide the same or better level of HD quality as Blu-Ray
B) they cost the same as many Blu-Ray titles yet still play in my DVD player

I'm not the villian here folks. I"m not here to piss in your cheerios either. The problem with narrow focus messageboards is that sometimes the participants are too busy building a "mutual admiration society".

To date both formats have had their issues. The Toshiba has exhibited flakiness and the Samsung has exhibited some issues and sluggishness as well. So once again we are waiting for that perfect player and hoping. We'll see if our prayers are answered.

[Ascended_Saiyan]

If the price is the same as Blu-ray movies, then it doesn't matter.
Here is the Blu-ray price for Kiss Kiss Bang Bang ($23.95).

On those titles, you don't seem to have another choice, so you're back it the same boat. If you have a DVD player, why spend the extra money for HD-DVD (especially when you don't care about the format war). There are no prices for the Blu-ray links you gave. Where did you get your prices from?

BTW, Kingdom of Heaven is a 50GB release with extras such as interactive games (can't get that on HD-DVD), commentaries (in HD, I think), delete scenes (again, in HD, I think), DTS-HD lossless, etc. Well worth $28 (if that is the price) I'd say.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

If the price is the same as Blu-ray movies, then it doesn't matter.
Here is the Blu-ray price for Kiss Kiss Bang Bang ($23.95).

On those titles, you don't seem to have another choice, so you're back it the same boat. If you have a DVD player, why spend the extra money for HD-DVD (especially when you don't care about the format war). There are no prices for the Blu-ray links you gave. Where did you get your prices from?

BTW, Kingdom of Heaven is a 50GB release with extras such as interactive games (can't get that on HD-DVD), commentaries (in HD, I think), delete scenes (again, in HD, I think), DTS-HD lossless, etc. Well worth $28 (if that is the price) I'd say.

That's nice but it doesn't help me if I want to view KoH on my DVD player in my bedroom. The 50GB and games don't help me either.

Basically with the Combo version of KKBB I get the quality that I need and I also get the ability to support DVD players for a mere $4 more. Most of the Combo discs have gone up in price lately. I remember when a fair amount were only $24.95.