Come on Sony! Why doesn't the PS3 support native 720p output!?!!

[DaveFi]

This one is really pissing me off. I spent my $500+ for my machine, and am not going to be upgrading my 720p 56" Samsung any time soon (it's brand new).

Sony, get your ass in line and get the PS3 outputting native 720p, rather than having my set having to do one extra thing.

The other thing that pisses me off is that I spent $1900 for my set in late Mar when now I can get a similarly equipped 1080p 56" Samsung for the same price.

[JTK]

What the hell?

Dave, check on every resolution that your tv accepts and supports and displays in the PS3's video dashboards. That should be every single one except, of course, 1080p. Make sure you have the latest firmware installed, go into the video settings, hit manual, custom, or whatever order it's in, and check on every single resolution except 1080p and you should be fine.

You shouldn't be having any problems with 720p content on that TV. Who cares if the TV has to scale it or not? It should look and play just fine.

Too much whining and ranting on this subject, in general. Not specifically directed at you, Dave, but gee whiz.

That second part definitely sucks, though. Maybe um...something might be wrong with your TV and maybe um... a forced upgrade happens or something like that? You catching my drift?

[DaveFi]

Actually it would look much better at 720p because I suspect the display is bobing to deinterlace @540p with a 1080i input and then up to 720p again. Yes, it looks great, but it would probably look so much better at a native 720p. If it wasn't a big deal why does every other player do it?

As for the later part of your post, I already had my color wheel replaced 2x (right off the bat too). Someone over at AVF got Samsung to refund their money on this model by *****ing that they had gaming lag, and Sammy said they wouldn't, but I haven't noticed it. I don't really want to be dishonest that way to get my money back. If I did see substantial gaming lag over HDMI I would put up a big stink about it.

[WriteSimply]

This Samsung can't take 1080i natively?


fuad

[JTK]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

Actually it would look much better at 720p because I suspect the display is bobing to deinterlace @540p with a 1080i input and then up to 720p again.

That sucks if that's true. That's a giveaway of a mediocre display right there, before we even get into the bolded items below:

Yes, it looks great, but it would probably look so much better at a native 720p. If it wasn't a big deal why does every other player do it?

As for the later part of your post, I already had my color wheel replaced 2x (right off the bat too).

Ridiculous. Why did you stick with this thing? That soon, the first time would have been a yellow flag and the second time it should have been: Adios amigos!

Someone over at AVF got Samsung to refund their money on this model by *****ing that they had gaming lag, and Sammy said they wouldn't, but I haven't noticed it.

It's a known thing, at least with the older DLPs. They even have (or have) a "game mode" on these things don't they?

Frankly, I don't blame that person, whoever he was. For this kind of money? I wouldn't tolerate stuff like this either and I don't think anyone should.

I don't really want to be dishonest that way to get my money back. If I did see substantial gaming lag over HDMI I would put up a big stink about it.

That's my point: You wouldn't be dishonest. It's obvious you have a clunker on your hands that's already failed you at least twice, if not arguably three times if we want to get down to performance.

^^ What you described here are far too common and typical cases in point/complaints/bad quality assurance and control issues that reinforce why I and many others tend to not think very highly of Samsung as a brand.

I salute your ethics, but you clearly have already had a dismal time of it with this TV and frankly, I think you're very forgiving.

If it were me, for that kind of money, I would have parted ways with it for sure after the second wheel failure and replacement, if not the first.

But that's just me.

Yes, the PS3 should support all native resolutions and the rest of it and should have out of the box. They will eventually and probably in short order.

To their credit, at least the firmware updates have been robust and frequent.

[DaveFi]

Originally Posted by JTK

That sucks if that's true. That's a giveaway of a mediocre display right there, before we even get into the bolded items below:




Ridiculous. Why did you stick with this thing? That soon, the first time would have been a yellow flag and the second time it should have been: Adios amigos!




It's a known thing, at least with the older DLPs. They even have (or have) a "game mode" on these things don't they?

Frankly, I don't blame that person, whoever he was. For this kind of money? I wouldn't tolerate stuff like this either and I don't think anyone should.



That's my point: You wouldn't be dishonest. It's obvious you have a clunker on your hands that's already failed you at least twice, if not arguably three times if we want to get down to performance.

^^ What you described here are far too common and typical cases in point/complaints/bad quality assurance and control issues that reinforce why I and many others tend to not think very highly of Samsung as a brand.

I salute your ethics, but you clearly have already had a dismal time of it with this TV and frankly, I think you're very forgiving.

If it were me, for that kind of money, I would have parted ways with it for sure after the second wheel failure and replacement, if not the first.

But that's just me.

Yes, the PS3 should support all native resolutions and the rest of it and should have out of the box. They will eventually and probably in short order.

To their credit, at least the firmware updates have been robust and frequent.

The colorwheel problems in my set come from Amazon's poor delivery service (at least the first time), god knows why the 1st replacement failed immediately, but it did. But after they replaced it the 2nd time it's been excellent. Actually, the service has been quite stellar, and I have no complaints there. They showed up immediately, as soon as I had a problem.

What really pisses me off is my particular model has that damn Dnie picture processing forced on. The models before and after give you the option to turn them off, but for some stupid reason Samsung decided not to give me that option. Had I known I would never have purchased this set.

How do I get a refund? The set works as advertised. It's not broken. I would rather have a 1920p model without all the Firewire/cablecard/PIP stuff I never use in my current one, and it costs the same anyways.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

The colorwheel problems in my set come from Amazon's poor delivery service (at least the first time), god knows why the 1st replacement failed immediately, but it did. But after they replaced it the 2nd time it's been excellent. Actually, the service has been quite stellar, and I have no complaints there. They showed up immediately, as soon as I had a problem.

Well that's good at least.

What really pisses me off is my particular model has that damn Dnie picture processing forced on.

Oh God, I hate that. Despite it.

This is why I kind of groaned and chuckled when I saw the early Samsung BD player woes.

I told people left and right: "It's like their DLP's. It's like if I could just turn off that damne DNie."

Sure enough it was a noise reduction chip and out came the firmware.

Samsung seems to have a fixation for this sort of thing.

The models before and after give you the option to turn them off, but for some stupid reason Samsung decided not to give me that option. Had I known I would never have purchased this set.

Damn.

How do I get a refund? The set works as advertised. It's not broken.

The broken part is debateable.

I would rather have a 1920p model without all the Firewire/cablecard/PIP stuff I never use in my current one, and it costs the same anyways.

I'd like 1920p myself, but that's a different subject.

I don't know where you live, but if you feel like it, maybe come Monday you could contact your local Better Business Bureau, spell out this little track record that you've told us here, and see what they tell you and see what your rights are, especially if you are still under warranty.

In other words, maybe there's an honest way out of this thing.

How did the latest PS3 firmware work for you? Did it help at all?

[DaveFi]

Originally Posted by JTK

How did the latest PS3 firmware work for you? Did it help at all?

Fuad, the 720p FPDs take a 1080i native signal, it's just debatable what they're doing with it.

The 1.3 Sony Firmware just confuses the issue even more as it still outputs 1080i for BD, if you pick 720p max it only does 480p output, so you have to pick 1080i for 720p displays. Lame.

I haven't complained to Samsung directly yet. I suppose I could give it a shot. Although I don't know what I'm going to say. I could say that I was told my model had no DNie forced on for less game lag, and I am very dissatisfied. This is supposedly how that other guy got a refund on his model.

I only have about 2 1/2 mos left before my warranty runs out.

[shido]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

Fuad, the 720p FPDs take a 1080i native signal, it's just debatable what they're doing with it.

The 1.3 Sony Firmware just confuses the issue even more as it still outputs 1080i for BD, if you pick 720p max it only does 480p output, so you have to pick 1080i for 720p displays. Lame.

I haven't complained to Samsung directly yet. I suppose I could give it a shot. Although I don't know what I'm going to say. I could say that I was told my model had no DNie forced on for less game lag, and I am very dissatisfied. This is supposedly how that other guy got a refund on his model.

I only have about 2 1/2 mos left before my warranty runs out.

AFAIK, Sony has yet to implement a true scaler. Hence Blu-ray being shown at 1080i on 720p native sets. But they are working on one, so it's simply a matter of when, not if, it will be released. That's the beauty of decoding being done in software.

[PeterTHX]

Not a fan of DLP here.

Get a SXRD. Much better color accuracy, no damned color wheel, more fine detail.

Even Sony's LCD stomps all over the 720p DLPs. 1080i downconversion looks GREAT on them too.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

What really pisses me off is my particular model has that damn Dnie picture processing forced on. The models before and after give you the option to turn them off, but for some stupid reason Samsung decided not to give me that option. Had I known I would never have purchased this set.

Sorry to hear that. All those things should always be selectable by the user.

Anyway, I have a friend that has a 50" Samsung 720p DLP with DNie and I adjusted it so actually the best picture from DVDs was with in on. (took a while but it worked. Made the 480 look almost as good as HDTV over the air material) (them didn't exist HD-DVDs or BDs on them olden days early this year ). But the HD inputs didn't have Dnie. So I dont know how 720p + Dnie would look and if it could be counter adjusted till it looked good enough. In any case, couldn't there be a way to turn it off using secret service manual settings? It would be difficult for a serviceman to calibrate something that had a permanet distortioner playing muck with test signals so there may be a way to bypass it for "such purposes", if you catch my drift .. Just a possibility to investigate.. specially with a friendly and knowlegable serviceman

On the other hand, this won't improve how your PS3 output looks, but 540p x 1280 is equivalent to 624p so it's not that far-off from 720p. (Apart from any motion/deinterlacing issues, of course).
Just trying to soothe the pain a little

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

Fuad, the 720p FPDs take a 1080i native signal, it's just debatable what they're doing with it.

Sounds like an opportunity for you to find out. Any Panasonic or Samsung BD owners near you? You can borrow their unit and see if 720p native input would be any better than 1080i. If it's better, then you can hound Sony. If it's not, then I'd ask for a refund.

I've not seen this Samsung but the current gen SXRD is very sweet.


fuad

[DaveFi]

I'd rather just have a 1920p TV and be done with it. Yeah, I know you can adjust stuff in the service menu, the Samsungs are very adjustable and I can get it professionally calibrated for $400 but what's the point?

At this point it appears I am stuck with what I have for a while. I might as well just wait for the larger 1920p 24bit sets to come around to affordable prices. That should take a few more years, and by then I won't feel too bad about my current investment.

[Blackraven]

1080i = 540p (correct?)

If so then this problem would only be for Blu-ray movies (not games) that only output 1080i or lower-rezzed 480.

If so, then this would only be a problem for WXGA sets (1366x768) since thier 'forte' is on 720p (like my TV set?)

Maybe this could be fixed for next year....hopefully. Since firmware updates get better over time, this may not be a problem for the next few months.

I hope.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not a fan of DLP here.

Get a SXRD. Much better color accuracy, no damned color wheel, more fine detail.

Even Sony's LCD stomps all over the 720p DLPs. 1080i downconversion looks GREAT on them too.

Agreed 100 percent.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by JTK

Agreed 100 percent.

Yup.

I never liked DLP with its rainbow effect problems.

Best bet is to go for flat-panel HDTV (if space and weight is your concern)

[DaveFi]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

Yup.

I never liked DLP with its rainbow effect problems.

Best bet is to go for flat-panel HDTV (if space and weight is your concern)

It's more of a money issue with me. But the tech is changing so fast now, by the time I'm ready to upgrade this display (say 2-3yrs) I'll be able to get something really nice for an affordable price.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by DaveFi

It's more of a money issue with me. But the tech is changing so fast now, by the time I'm ready to upgrade this display (say 2-3yrs) I'll be able to get something really nice for an affordable price.

That would probably still be SXRD.

Unless three-chip DLP becomes as cheap as SXRD in the coming years. OLEDS are slow at ramping now. SED will still command premium price at 50" starting point by winter 2007-summer 2008.


fuad

[DaveFi]

Well, I'll give Samsung a shot this week and see if I can get a refund on my current model at least. I doubt it considering I've owned it for 9mos now, but the worst they can do is say "no".

But if I do get a refund the most I could afford is just another LED or DLP but this time at least a 1080p. To be honest I'd rather just sell this one right now and use the difference for a 1080p monitor but no one wants a used HDTV projection TV anymore when they are so inexpensive.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

That would probably still be SXRD.

Unless three-chip DLP becomes as cheap as SXRD in the coming years. OLEDS are slow at ramping now. SED will still command premium price at 50" starting point by winter 2007-summer 2008.


fuad

You got a point.

Although personally, I would still pick flat-panel HDTV over any Rear Projection HDTV (ie. HD-ILA, DLP, SXRD, LCOS???)

Space and weight is something that RPTV sets NEED to improve on. Although definitely cheaper than flat panel counterparts, the RPTV sets eliminate the purpose of future television viewing.

Having weight issues and storage problems seems to be a step backward for these sets.

I would love though to see an OLED TV. Now OLED is the future of televisions after Plasma, LCD and rear projection LCD TVs.....

Of course, they would need to improve the lifespan of Blue OLED bulbs to AT LEAST 60k hours. But once we are there, there is no stopping OLED

SED will fail if Toshiba is the lone manufacturer (with the exception of Canon of course).