720p Budget Blu-ray

[Mobe1969]

Just wanting to start a discussion on a fictional 720p Budget Blu Ray concept.

I've been thinking about the incessant BS we continue to hear on "digital HD downloads are HERE" from everyone and their dog, and that THX chief scientist talking about some stupid memory card idea.

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD? Do you think anyone here would be interested? Even those people who only have older 768 line (or less) panels?

Personally I wouldn't touch it. Even if I only had a 768 line panel I wouldn't sell myself short. I wound't touch a digital medium def 720 download either. I personally think the idea of buying a 720p version would be idiotic, but given the crap we keep seeing since the demise of HDDVD, there are a lot of people out there that do think 720p is OK.

But I'm just one person. I'm wondering what others thoughts are...

[#Darren]

They'd have to rescan the films to get 720p anyway, so why not do 1080p while they're at it? So there's no financial benefit at the scanning level.

[mdm1699]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

Just wanting to start a discussion on a fictional 720p Budget Blu Ray concept.

I've been thinking about the incessant BS we continue to hear on "digital HD downloads are HERE" from everyone and their dog, and that THX chief scientist talking about some stupid memory card idea.

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD? Do you think anyone here would be interested? Even those people who only have older 768 line (or less) panels?

Personally I wouldn't touch it. Even if I only had a 768 line panel I wouldn't sell myself short. I wound't touch a digital medium def 720 download either. I personally think the idea of buying a 720p version would be idiotic, but given the crap we keep seeing since the demise of HDDVD, there are a lot of people out there that do think 720p is OK.

But I'm just one person. I'm wondering what others thoughts are...

You have gone mad.

[DetroitSportsFan]

No, I have no interest in this idea.

[WickyWoo]

They'd have to rescan the films to get 720p anyway, so why not do 1080p while they're at it? So there's no financial benefit at the scanning level.

No they wouldn't. They'd just do what they do for DVD now and downscale it from the 1080p master

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

No they wouldn't. They'd just do what they do for DVD now and downscale it from the 1080p master

I meant if they don't already have a 1080p capable master.

[BruceWayne]

Not to mention, they have been trying to DECREASE consumer confusion... this wouldn't help at all

[WickyWoo]

I meant if they don't already have a 1080p capable master.

They would though. Everything is archived in 1080p or better. I can't recall anything that has EVER been telecine'd to 720p. 1080i, later 1080p, or 480p are all I've ever heard being done

720p is what you're seeing on these formats like VMD and CHD, designed for very poor nations. They're not designed or intended to ever break out of India or China or whatnot, and will probably face plant right quick in those countries as well.

[discipline]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

Just wanting to start a discussion on a fictional 720p Budget Blu Ray concept.

I've been thinking about the incessant BS we continue to hear on "digital HD downloads are HERE" from everyone and their dog, and that THX chief scientist talking about some stupid memory card idea.

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD? Do you think anyone here would be interested? Even those people who only have older 768 line (or less) panels?

Personally I wouldn't touch it. Even if I only had a 768 line panel I wouldn't sell myself short. I wound't touch a digital medium def 720 download either. I personally think the idea of buying a 720p version would be idiotic, but given the crap we keep seeing since the demise of HDDVD, there are a lot of people out there that do think 720p is OK.

But I'm just one person. I'm wondering what others thoughts are...

IMHO: Not a good idea.. by far.. no offense.

[g217814]

There is no reason or point to add a middle format plus it only adds to more consumer confusion.

[Minimejer05]

1080p is fine. Normal Blu Rays are doing just fine. No need for anything else.

[wbikowitz]

You know, I was thinking of trading in my sports car for a horse. That's kind of the same thing, right? Sorry bud, terrible idea. Didn't we all get Blue Ray in order to have the 1080p? I got a good chuckle out of your post though, so thanks!

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD? Do you think anyone here would be interested? Even those people who only have older 768 line (or less) panels?

It would mean Blu-ray is competing with itself. The retailers would be forced to keep separate stock again. It would split sales making neither a strong competitor to DVD. It would eliminate the data size factor that would limit piracy. And it would encourage "720p is good enough" thinking helping to establish downloads.

Sorry. It's all around a bad idea.

Gary

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD?

No.

First of all the idea wouldn't work if it was intended for playback on regular DVD players. SD DVD players don't have the processing power to handle any form of 720p.

Even if it could work, you're talking about increasing data compression levels by 266% to get 720p/24 content to fit on a DVD-9 disc. Regular 480p movies need DVD-9 discs to look good.

Aside from the technical problems, you have to consider the budgetary problems as well. It's going to cost just as much money to compress/encode a 720p for a DVD-9 disc as it does for 1080p material on a BD-50 disc. It might even cost more money since the compression levels are so much greater -and that you're stuck using MPEG-2 compression. DVD players don't understand VC-1 or MPEG-4 AVC.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

No they wouldn't. They'd just do what they do for DVD now and downscale it from the 1080p master

The process isn't quite that simple. Each video format encode of a movie has to be carefully compressed and encoded on its own from the original uncompressed HD digital master files. Every format has its own rules and other considerations to take into account.

D-cinema files in Motion JPEG2000 have their own set of stringent rules. The resulting file sizes are huge and typically require a 300GB hard disc to distribute to movie theaters.

Blu-ray has its own requirements for how various HD formats are encoded and what formats are used for the encode.

SD DVD is limited to MPEG-2 compression. That severely limits compression options.

[supersix4]

not me

[AlexanderG]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Even if it could work, you're talking about increasing data compression levels by 266% to get 720p/24 content to fit on a DVD-9 disc. Regular 480p movies need DVD-9 discs to look good.

I've seen many reference level 480p movies on single layer DVD, and many others have as well, so I'm not quite sure why you think 480p movies NEED DVD-9 to look good. Perhaps a 2 hour 30 minute+ movie NEEDS DVD-9, but 99% of movies under 2 hours are fine on single layer DVD.

Also, 720p content in 9 gigs of space is actually of a very very very high quality. Most 720p rips of 1080p BD content are less than 4.5 GB, and usually average around ~5000 mbps AVC in that storage space. Double the space to 9 GB and you're looking at enough room for an average of 10,000 mbps AVC... Which is without a doubt a high enough average bitrate for 720p content with minimal compression artifacts, if any. Alot of Warner BD discs are close to that bitrate - but at 1080p resolution.

[Blu Haze]

Originally Posted by Minimejer05

1080p is fine. Normal Blu Rays are doing just fine. No need for anything else.

[Mobe1969]

Yeah, no offence taken people saying this is a bad idea. I think it is a bad idea too. But I think that 720p so called "HD" downloads are a bad idea too. But unlike the digital download idea mine would be feasible, as cheap as DVD to make, and persistent storage...

[Smackos]

Also, the fact that a DVD 9 already holds what a DVD 9 is capable of.. SD content Films. HD 720p films would require more than that I'm sure? Plus DVD's got it's own Bitrate limit that basically renders the output the same as... an upscaled DVD.. so no point really.

I understand where your coming from but don't forget that whilst say 30% of the current population has access to a HD telly it means that whether they like it or not the other 70% will end up buying whats in Best Buy etc-and with the prices coming down like they are starting to that 70% will be buying 1080p tv's even if they have'nt got a clue what the 1080p actually means..

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

But I got to thinking, if there was a "budget" Blu Ray format that was 720p transfers, and only DVD9, and say equivalent price of SD DVD (on release and after release), do you think it'd replace DVD? Do you think anyone here would be interested? Even those people who only have older 768 line (or less) panels?

This was the original concept of HD DVD... and it would probably still be around (and quite successful) had they stuck with this plan and not tried to compete head-on with Blu-ray on specs.