Dolby TruHD on BD

[Chris Beveridge]

A debate over time that has heated up recently involves why Warner does not have TruHD tracks on BD releases that they provide on HD DVD. This has become more prominent during CES due to the TotalHD solution.

Questions were asked and nobody appeared to have answers.

Then a post from MS Amir indicates that he believes it's for two reasons:

1) It's not mandatory
2) It's implemented differently.

First, I and others call BS on #1. Whether people accept it or not, the PS3 is a multimedia component. I'm downloading trailers (and likely eventually movies), I'm doing photos, I'm doing music, I'm browsing the net, I'm playing DVDs and I'm playing BDs. And yeah, I'm playing PS1, PS2 and PS3 games. There are a million of these out there in peoples hands worldwide right now in REGION A. It's TruHD compliant. There are far more of these than HD DVD including the 360 Strap-On.

Second, MS Amir indicated that it's implemented differently in that it needs to be done as 7.1 channels. That would mean that a 5.1 track that's on HD DVD would have to have two dummy channels added which would require new work. This was posted at AVS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9436012

Sony's "paidgeek" responds:

It is not a problem to encode 5.1 Dolby lossless. There is no requirement to have "dummy channels".

Even more, Dolby's Roger Dressler stated at AVS:

TrueHD is the same for both disc formats, and the same file can technically be used on both. There may be other reasons why this is not being done.

This leaves us with several things:

1) What is the real reason why it isn't done
2) What needs to be done to have it happen
3) Why does anyone listen to MS Amir anymore?

[hyperdine]

Well, if the rumors are true that WB is going with Lossles audio (LPCM) for BD, is there really a need for Dolby TrueHD? Maybe that's why they haven't bothered with it? Just a guess.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

3) Why does anyone listen to MS Amir anymore?

Amir always has an opinion. And somehow it is always skewed toward the maximum negative for Blu-ray.

What I don't understand is, why he never tries to find out the facts before he sets himself up for the falls? He could spin actual facts far more powerfully. He just spews opinion. And it is usually wrong.

This guy should know far more than he seems to (starting with the names of people he's working with).

He will not survive all this professionally. He's making too many enemies, and embarassing himself and Microsoft too often.

Gary

[Maximus]

It is true, all of the other MS employees have a disclaimer in their sig saying that their views do not in any way represent the view of MS. Amir on the other hand is a direct mouthpiece for MS, and if he keeps getting facts wrong, then the higher-ups at MS might take him to task over misrepresenting the company.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

We are one of the companies you are referring to and we do believe that BD+ provides additional protection. I suspect that one or two other studios feel this way as well. If you are arguing semantics over BD+ specifically providing protecting against the alleged AACS attack, then let's be clear. BD+ does not fix a broken encyrption system, it gives us additional ways to inconvenience hackers should that system be broken.

Originally Posted by Amir

If you believe "inconveniencing" a hacker is going to mean "additional protection" against breaches, then all I can say is "best of luck to you." Any hacker who can break a well designed encryption system like AACS, will blow through BD+'s "inconvenience" layer during an afternoon break. And as I noted in the other threat, if someone hacks BD+, it can compromise the system without ever breaking AACS.

I don't know if you work in the content security area but if you are, your position here is surprising to me because Sony participated in evaluation and rejection of CRI proposal which BD+ is based on in both AACS and DVD Forum.

Translation: Paidgeek, you're either talking about something you're not qualified to, or you are an idiot.

[Esox50]

I'm certainly far from the expert, but there was a post from someone named Jeff Williams over on AVS. He's listed as a person who authors HD DVDs and BDs. I'm going from memory here, but the other day he mentioned something about needing to "import" the TrueHD files in "Blu-Print" (I assume this is some sort of authoring software) to get Dolby TrueHd on the BD version. At this time, Blu Print does not have such functionality.

Perhaps this is why?

[WriteSimply]

Not everybody is using Blu-print. If importing was the problem, then it certainly was not the problem for the folks who did the Legends of Jazz disc, currently the ONLY TrueHD disc out there.

But Warner's excuse IS pretty lame. Even if they couldn't fit TrueHD there, all they need to do is use DTS HDMA as the primary sound track. The fact that Roger Dressler of Dolby chiming in on the matter simply makes Warner's excuse more suspect.


fuad

[ClaytonMG]

Alright, so why isn't this being used on Blu-Ray? I noticed Warner Brothers keeps using it on HD-DVD with Superman Returns, The Ant Bully, Training Day, Happy Feet, The Wickerman... and yet none of those Blu-Rays use the Dolby TrueHD technology. It's starting to bug me that they would give the Blu-Ray camp a Blu-Ray with lower quality audio than HD-DVD. Granted I don't know if any players decode Dolby TrueHD (supposedly the PS3 does, but I don't have one and I don't have movies that use it except on HD-DVD), but for future use I think we should also have the TrueHD tracks. Kudos to Fox for using DTS-HDMA too. Even listening to the core DTS track of that rivals most HD-DVD audio tracks.

[ProvenFlipper]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=4774

[GoldenRedux]

What's truly disgusting, is that Amir has been spewing that '7.1, dummy channels' rubbish forever, and it is an outright lie. Someone from Dolby has even confirmed it as nonsense, yet he is still allowed to get away with it, and is treated like every word out of his mouth is the gospel truth. What a fracking joke that whole forum is - it's sad, really.

[theknub]

what i dont get is how amir has the "authority" to comment on audio and hardware aspects when his specialty is a compression format. yes, he may be an insider with some information. but that doesn't make him an authoritative source for some of this stuff.

[phloyd]

Originally Posted by theknub

what i dont get is how amir has the "authority" to comment on audio and hardware aspects when his specialty is a compression format. yes, he may be an insider with some information. but that doesn't make him an authoritative source for some of this stuff.

As noted in another thread, Amir is full of sh!t and has been for since the beginning.

He claims all kind of expertise - remember his BD50 comments revealed his expertise in physics and also he has made comments revealing his expertise in optics

Yet he makes comments questioning others' right to answer questions due to lack of experience or expertise.

The only expertise this guy has is in avoiding questions that show up HD DVD and VC-1 inadequacies and spreading lies and/or half truths to further his causes.

I don't think he even knows all that much about compression. It is not him that does that work - he is just the manager.

I think all of his facts are really filtered second hand information that he believes is true.

[Spankey]

Amir likes to portray himself as an expert who knows everything, but when called on his mistakes he knows nothing at all. The corporate execs are used to their drones accepting everything they say as gospel. At AVS they have to answer to their customers and may not like being faced with facts from people who know more than them. I suspect AVS is protecting Amir because they enjoy having him around as a rep, while at the same time know some questions and answers are hitting a little too close to home.

[PeterTHX]

Amir's probably mixed up the BD requirments for Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Digital Plus.

Dolby PLUS on BD requires 7.1 channels. 5.1 soundtracks will be authored at Dolby Digital 640kbps.

BTW: the 5.1 "Legends of Jazz" plays and sounds beautiful on my PS3, Onkyo 803 setup.