120 Hz LCD and Blu-ray

[Cortiz]

I just bought a new 120hz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120hz LCD.

[turboLAZER]

Originally Posted by Cortiz

I just bought a new 120 mhz Sony LCD and the 1st Blu Ray movie I watched was Pirates of The Caribbean: At World's End and was very surprised at how fake the picture looked! The picture looked so fake that I thought I was watching a cartoon version of Pirates of The Caribbean.

I would like to get the impression from anyone on this forum that also owns a 120 mhz LCD.

It's 120hz(not mhz), and that fake look is what you should expect with 120hz

[blu-backer]

Some people like the picture created by the screens with 120Hz capabilites. Others don't. I first saw it at Fry's last year where they were showing Transformers on HD-DVD on a 120Hz screen. I had to stop and look and try to place my finger on why the screen looked so "different".

I didn't really care for a movie looking like a 3D soap opera, but others seem to like the effect.

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by blu-backer

Some people like the picture created by the screens with 120Hz capabilites. Others don't. I first saw it at Fry's last year where they were showing Transformers on HD-DVD on a 120Hz screen. I had to stop and look and try to place my finger on why the screen looked so "different".

I didn't really care for a movie looking like a 3D soap opera, but others seem to like the effect.

some movies, looks good; others, not so much.

but i love the option to dial it down or turn it off on my xbr4

[MrRoy]

I saw a demo at BB and there was a ton of judder on a Sony 120hz XBR4. When I saw the 120hz on a Sammy, there was no judder. I don't know what to make of 120hz.

1080/24p also has judder so I am still trying to figure out how this is an advantage.

[BigBluu]

i don't like it either, at least not at full effect. it looks like a home video. my brother has a samsung with the effect dialed down halfway and it's much better.

[bootman]

What player do you have?
Does it look the same if you play at 24p?
Can you turn off ACE?
Is game mode on or off?

[MrRoy]

If you are talking to me, the 1080/24p kind of looks like 120hz. The 24p set that i have refreshes at 48hz so it displays every frame 2 x's and the 120hz tv's usually do it 5 x's (that is the way that i understand it).

I don't know what ACE is, but I have any adjusters/enhancers turned off. Game mode is turned off too.

Oh, and I am using my PS3 as the BD player.

[GeneD5]

ive got a samsung 120hz...I love it. It weirded me out at first, but my eyes are now used to it and in my opinion it adds a lot of pop and makes the picture even more interesting to look at. I'm a big 120hz fan

[ronjones]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

If you are talking to me, the 1080/24p kind of looks like 120hz. The 24p set that i have refreshes at 48hz so it displays every frame 2 x's and the 120hz tv's usually do it 5 x's (that is the way that i understand it).

I don't know what ACE is, but I have any adjusters/enhancers turned off. Game mode is turned off too.

Oh, and I am using my PS3 as the BD player.

Many of the 120Hz HDTVs don't simply display each frame from a 24Hz source 5 times. They digitally process two consecutive frames of the source and produce 4 artificial new frames (sort of like producing morph frames) to fill in the timeline between each original frame and the next. While this produces much smoother on-screen motion than the original source film or video, it looks very artificial to many people.

[MrRoy]

Can you help me understand why there is judder with the 24hz? I can't seem to get a straight answer for this question.

[SquidPuppet]

I turn "cinemotion" off. Makes me feel like I ate the wrong mushrooms.

[MrRoy]

When I have played with the settings, it seems that cinemotion undoes the 24hz effect. I am watching the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe as we speak and it is breathtaking. The 24hz isn't too juddery either. Maybe it has to do with the source as well?

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

Can you help me understand why there is judder with the 24hz? I can't seem to get a straight answer for this question.

judder is a natural part of 24fps film. what 24fps does is eliminate the uneven judder that is caused by the 3:2 pulldown that is in a 60hz HDTV. the only way you will remove judder is with interpolation (motion enhancment on).

[Entertainment72]

love it on my a3000 sony..

[MrRoy]

I chose the sony 40v3000 over the sammy 4061f. The 1080/24p i guess will take some getting used too.

[desmond]

Turn the DSP off. It just adds noise, you will get great judder free picture, new SONY sets come with theater button that turns off dsp and selects cinema calibration.

[MrRoy]

I did put it in Theater mode and the judder is still theree. I am going to accept that as part of the feature.

[ryoohki]

Judder is there in Cinema too, just go out in theater and you'll see it. But 3:2 all more of it where it should not be there.

120hz.. i hate the look on film (nice on Video Game tought)

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by MrRoy

1080/24p also has judder so I am still trying to figure out how this is an advantage.

I think you have a different idea of what judder is.
Judder refers to what 3:2 telecine creates.
Because most sets are 60Hz, a 24Hz source is converted by showing the first frame twice and the second one three times.
So the first 6 frames of a 24p source are shown like this:

1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6

The "judder" is caused because the time-axis is off. If you shoot something at 24 frames per second the only way to recreate it properly is by showing it at a multiple of 24. The 3:2 effect is known as "judder" because the film is now uneven, albeit at such a small moment in time that most people don't notice it.

The effect of shooting at only 24 frames per second can appear choppy because we can perceive motion much quicker than this, but it's not "judder" in the more widely used term which is what describes 3:2

The only way to remove the "choppiness" of 24p is to film at 60 frames per second.