Question RE: flicker problem with Panasonic 800u (50" only) in 48Hz mode

[Steelmaker]

Has Panasonic even acknowledged that the flicker in 24p mode is infact a problem and are they doing ANYTHING to fix it in future models? It just seems like a serious design flaw that needs to get corrected.

[Jim L]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Has Panasonic even acknowledged that the flicker in 24p mode is infact a problem and are they doing ANYTHING to fix it in future models? It just seems like a serious design flaw that needs to get corrected.

I've read over at AVS that there is a firmware fix coming for this, possibly mid-December.

I am probably getting this set myself.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Has Panasonic even acknowledged that the flicker in 24p mode is infact a problem and are they doing ANYTHING to fix it in future models? It just seems like a serious design flaw that needs to get corrected.

I totally agree with you. I would wait for a working firmware update before even considering purchasing the display. Hopefully a firmware update is in the works. The Pioneer 72HZ Plasma's and Hitachi 48HZ Plasmas do not have this flicker issue.

[DezNutz]

I have seen the sets and havnt really seen the flicker problem yet myself. I heard the same in regards towards firmware update.. but have yet to see anything official.

That being said it did not stop me from buying the 58" 800u for 2800 shipped today.

[Hammie]

I just purchased the 50" 800u. Mine comes sometime next week. I was hoping to have it before the Thanksgiving, but since it is an exchange, I still have the Samsung 46" 860 to watch.

I've heard mixed emotions on the flicker issue. Some see it others don't. As far as Panny acknowledging it. I heard the same thing about a possible mid-December firmware update.

[Mr Dodger Blu]

I just got the TH42PZ80U. I have 24p active and I don't see a flicker.
I'm running the Panny BD35 player.
One ? I do have, the set is 20,000:1 native, is there a menu option to turn on the dynamic 1,000,000:1.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Mr Dodger Blu

I just got the TH42PZ80U. I have 24p active and I don't see a flicker.
I'm running the Panny BD35 player.
One ? I do have, the set is 20,000:1 native, is there a menu option to turn on the dynamic 1,000,000:1.

The TH42PZ80U converts 1080P/24 to 60HZ and does not have the flicker issue. Only the 800U and 850U have several reports from three or more professional reviews regarding the "unwatchable flicker" or "flicker issue" when the 800U and 850U are placed in the 48HZ mode. The 800U and 850U do not have flickers at the standard 60HZ mode but then that defeats the purpose of 1080P/24 signals.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

I just purchased the 50" 800u. Mine comes sometime next week. I was hoping to have it before the Thanksgiving, but since it is an exchange, I still have the Samsung 46" 860 to watch.

I've heard mixed emotions on the flicker issue. Some see it others don't. As far as Panny acknowledging it. I heard the same thing about a possible mid-December firmware update.

If you turn down the contrast and brightness the flicker is less noticable on the 800U and 850U at 48HZ.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

If you turn down the contrast and brightness the flicker is less noticable on the 800U and 850U at 48HZ.

What about running in the THX mode?

[RealSkyDiver]

How is the picture with these TVs? Are they comparable with 120mz lcds?
I still don't know if I should get the TH-46PZ80U or TH-46PZ800U (1,500$ @ amazon). Is the difference worth it? I don't care that much about the speakers.

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by RealSkyDiver

How is the picture with these TVs? Are they comparable with 120mz lcds?
I still don't know if I should get the TH-46PZ80U or TH-46PZ800U (1,500$ @ amazon). Is the difference worth it? I don't care that much about the speakers.

The picture is fantastic, and no, it is NOT comparable to 120Hz LCDs...it is much, much better. Colors are more accurate, blacks are black, no motion blur and great off-axis viewing (if needed). Get the 800U.

[RealSkyDiver]

Thanks! I just hope burn-in is not gona be too much of a problem with this model when playing games.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by RealSkyDiver

I still don't know if I should get the TH-46PZ80U or TH-46PZ800U (1,500$ @ amazon). Is the difference worth it?

the PZ80u has 20,000:1 contrast ratio..the PZ85u and higher have 30,000:1

match that with the THX mode and the 800u is a clear winner. Very much worth it.

[Mr Dodger Blu]

I still have that question about the dynamic 1,000,000:1
Is that automatic or is there a menu option for that.

[Trix]

Originally Posted by Mr Dodger Blu

I still have that question about the dynamic 1,000,000:1
Is that automatic or is there a menu option for that.

Alright, I will try to answer your question without getting too sidetracked, or just plain angry at the manufacturers.

So, your set's native contrast is 20,000:1. That means, in theory, when measured, your whitest white is 20,000 times brighter than your darkest black. In theory. The 1,000,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio.....takes other factors into account. What exactly does that mean? Well, that is a very good question.

First, HT Mag quoted Samsung as saying that when they measured their 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio, they waited for the screen to "dim" after not showing an image (half-brightness anti-image retention), giving you a black you will never, ever see in real situations. Second, add the facts that contrast ratios can be measured:

1) Many different ways (full white: full black, checkboard patterns, etc.)
2) With many different instruments (different light meters, different sources, different picture settings)

And then add that third, when measured semi-accurately, HT Mag has rated the PZ85 models, with a so called 1,000,000:1 dynamic, 30,000:1 native contrast, as having a contrast ration of 3,390:1 (0.010 black, 33.9 white), and you start to get an idea of why there is so much confusion in regards to contrast ratios.

Now, where am I going with this you ask? Actually, that's a good question, let me remember what my point is...

Right. All this is to say that, in order to get a 1,000,000:1 ratio, you must pray, wish, whatever you like. The truth is, achieving a 1,000,000:1 contrast ration is near impossible. Your set's contrast ratio, though "adjustable", cannot go from 20,000:1 to 1,000,000:1 with the push of a button. The only thing you can really strive for is the best color reproduction possible with your set, which means a professional calibration. No, putting your contrast setting to 100 will not make your contrast ratio higher. It will make your white whiter, but it will make your black grayer. To get as good picture quality as possible, all you can do is get a professional calibration, either yourself with a disk, or with a professional ISF calibrator.

Right, so, I've not avoided getting sidetracked, but I seem to have avoided getting plain angry at the manufacturers. For the most part.

Makes sense?

[My_Two_Cents]

Originally Posted by Trix

Alright, I will try to answer your question without getting too sidetracked, or just plain angry at the manufacturers.

So, your set's native contrast is 20,000:1. That means, in theory, when measured, your whitest white is 20,000 times brighter than your darkest black. In theory. The 1,000,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio.....takes other factors into account. What exactly does that mean? Well, that is a very good question.

First, HT Mag quoted Samsung as saying that when they measured their 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio, they waited for the screen to "dim" after not showing an image (half-brightness anti-image retention), giving you a black you will never, ever see in real situations. Second, add the facts that contrast ratios can be measured:

1) Many different ways (full white: full black, checkboard patterns, etc.)
2) With many different instruments (different light meters, different sources, different picture settings)

And then add that third, when measured semi-accurately, HT Mag has rated the PZ85 models, with a so called 1,000,000:1 dynamic, 30,000:1 native contrast, as having a contrast ration of 3,390:1 (0.010 black, 33.9 white), and you start to get an idea of why there is so much confusion in regards to contrast ratios.

Now, where am I going with this you ask? Actually, that's a good question, let me remember what my point is...

Right. All this is to say that, in order to get a 1,000,000:1 ratio, you must pray, wish, whatever you like. The truth is, achieving a 1,000,000:1 contrast ration is near impossible. Your set's contrast ratio, though "adjustable", cannot go from 20,000:1 to 1,000,000:1 with the push of a button. The only thing you can really strive for is the best color reproduction possible with your set, which means a professional calibration. No, putting your contrast setting to 100 will not make your contrast ratio higher. It will make your white whiter, but it will make your black grayer. To get as good picture quality as possible, all you can do is get a professional calibration, either yourself with a disk, or with a professional ISF calibrator.

Right, so, I've not avoided getting sidetracked, but I seem to have avoided getting plain angry at the manufacturers. For the most part.

Makes sense?

Much simpler explanation. First read the following articles:

http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...ast-ratio.html

http://www.cnet.com/8301-17914_1-9985085-89.html

There are two "types" of contrast ratio being hyped for TVs:

1) ANSI contrast ratio (native or true contrast ratio) - This is the ratio of the whitest white versus the blackest black when you display an alternating black and white pattern on the screen at the same time. So, 20,000:1 means the white is 20,000 times brighter than the black (while displayed at the same time). This is the ONLY measure of contrast ratio that means anything. Period.

2) Dynamic contrast ratio - This is the same ratio as described above, but with one VERY DIFFERENT exception. It measure the black with no picture on the screen at all (a completely black screen) and the white is measured with an all-white screen. Now, just what the hell does that have to do with watching ANY content on the screen that contains both light and dark? Absolutely nothing, but the high numbers look real good to the LCD marketing departments because they know the uninformed consumers always believe that "bigger is better".

Bottom line: Dynamic contrast ratio is a worthless number that is only used as a marketing gimmick.

[GoYanks]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It's not a legitimate concern. It's the same flicker you see at the theater with a 48Hz projector (ie - any non-digital cinema)

48Hz is at a speed where you can see the frame rate in certain scenes with heightened contrast, like a bright sky behind a building in shadow.

It's "filmic" - it's the way it's supposed to look. It's a shame most of the people who normally know what they're talking about don't understand this.

If you don't like it, turn it to 60Hz. That's the way we've been watching DVD's for years.



They won't, because it's NOT an issue, it's the way it is supposed to look.

Have you actually watched this at all? The reason why some people think it's unwatchable is because they have never seen anything like it outside the cinema.

Secondly it would be an absolute landslide of people that wouldn't have a clue whether they were looking at 1080p60 or 1080p72, one having 3:2 judder the other not, so the ultimate quality has far more to do with a plethora of other options that it does with the ability to correctly display 24Hz.

No idea why someone would get hung up on that as being anywhere near a top consideration when buying an HDTV.

Just read what Doby wrote. Now you know that the firmwire update is b.s. and isn't necessary. glad to be of service.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

I totally agree with you. I would wait for a working firmware update before even considering purchasing the display. Hopefully a firmware update is in the works. The Pioneer 72HZ Plasma's and Hitachi 48HZ Plasmas do not have this flicker issue.

The Pioneer refreshes fast enough you wouldn't notice it.
If the Hitachi review wasn't done by the same person that notices flicker on the Panny, it's irrelevant.

There may be some issue with some runs of the TH-50PZ800U in the processing upon further research, but I see NO mention of the "problem" some people notice on any of the 58" 800U models and any of the 50", 58" and 65" -850U models nor is there any consistency with the so-called "unwatchable" flicker on the 50" -800U model.

It is certainly not the epidemic you seem to be making it out to be by making blanket statements that all the -800 and -850 series have some inherent flaw in the 48Hz mode.

[Mr Dodger Blu]

I understand now guys! Thanks.