Samsung BD-P1400 -> Dolby 5.1 (Pioneer AVR)

[tawny]

I recently bought a Samsung BD-P1400 and have found the audio compatibility problems bewildering to say the least. I'm hardly an AV expert but connect my own equipment and I've never seen so many issues.

The main problem is I have an older Pioneer AVR that does has only a digital coax input. It support Dolby Pro Logic 5.1, which is just fine for me and my set up.

However, a majority of the Blu-Ray DVDs either do not play any sound (when player is set to "bitstream") or else play sound but in what seems to be standard 2 channel audio (when set to "PCM").

There's a trouble shooting guide for the player, which states that if the receiver supports Dolby Digital to use Bitstream. That guide also there should be TWO bitstream options (re-encode & audiophile) but my player has only "bitstream". It's been upgraded to the latest firmware as of 02/26/2009.

The last frustrating DVD I tried last night was Mama Mia. The only english soundtrack is DTS Master Audio. This says the new firmware should support that, but maybe only over HDMI 1.3.

So WTF do I do? Am I stuck with the fact that blu-ray DVDs are being released with no choices for just plain old Dolby 5.1? I mean what's with Mama Mia having only the English choice for DTS Master Audio??

I don't want to buy new equipment if possible -- like I said I'm very happy with just Dolby 5.1 but not 2 channel. HD/Lossless/etc I could give a crap about.

Thanks and sorry I'm so frustrated here.

[Bizdady]

No luck ? Receiver doesnt have optical?

[dTm]

I have the BDP1500 and use a optical to coax converter, the player lets me choose bitstream re-encode or audiophile (I use re-encode), no idea why the 1400 wouldn't offer that if it says it does - maybe its just a bad firmware version? Seems strange tbh

[Chris_Alan]

The Samsung 1400 only has PCM or Bitstream, it does not have the re-encode or audiophile options. Does your Pioneer AVR have 5.1 audio inputs? If it does then you could connect the 5.1 audio outputs to the Pioneer and get lossless audio (see this thread for more info https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=17648 )

[Glyphen]

In February 2008 I bought a Bd P1400 for $345.00, never worked quit right even with firmware updates. I called Samsung, they told me to wait for the latest release in about August. The player completely failed then. Now its out of warranty and they refused to help me with it. I have to have it fixed out of pocket now.

it gets better...

In November the BD P1500 went onsale at Wal-Mart for $199. I figured it had better reviews on this site then the 1400 so I bought it rather then have the 1400 repaired. This was very stupid of me....

After 3 months the 1500 player is exhibiting the same malfunctions as the 1400. Right after the warranty expiration. Samsung has been less then sympathetic to say the least. So at this point i'm down $545 bucks plus tax and have no blu-ray player to show for it.

Samsung has cost me a lot of heart ache over this and would strongly urge anyone to reconcider buying from them and chose another brand. I chose to go with a Samsung Blu-Ray because I had also purchased a 52 inch LCD from them last year. I feel so foolish now....

[tawny]

Originally Posted by Bizdady

No luck ? Receiver doesnt have optical?

no, it doesn't have optical digital in. it has only something called "AC-3 PSM Digital In" which has a coax digital input. The receiver is Pioneer model VSX-05.

If it did (hypothetically) have it, would that make a difference?

[tawny]

I'm still trying to solve this problem. It just occurred to me that it might be possible to output HDMI from the blu-ray player and input digital coax into to the AVR. Would that work? Is there such a cable? I googled and couldn't find an HDMI-to-digital coax cable.

[BIslander]

I don't see the VSX-05 listed on the Pioneer website. It must be really old. Your initial post says the receiver only has ProLogic, no Dolby Digital or DTS decoders, and your symptoms are consistent with that description. Bitstreaming simply won't work. Bitstream means the player sends encoded tracks to the receiver for decoding. But, your AVR lacks the needed decoders, resulting in silence or noise.

You have three options:

1. If the receiver has 5.1 analog inputs, run six audio cables from the player to the receiver and let the player do the decoding and digital-analog conversion. Your receiver will just be an amp. You can get discrete 5.1 audio that way.

2. If not, then set the player to downmix DD 5.1 and DTS tracks to stereo for output as PCM over the coax connection. I'm not familiar with the BD-P1400's settings, but it likely has one to use Dolby Surround when downmixing. That's an old fashioned version of surround that folds one center and one surround channel into a stereo signal. The ProLogic decoder in your receiver will route the extra two channels to your center and two surround speakers. It's not the same as the discrete 5.1 in the Dolby or DTS encodes. But, it's better than stereo.

3. Get a new receiver. If yours lacks DD and DTS decoders, then it wasn't even up to snuff for DVD playback, let alone Blu-ray. Your first post said you are fine with Dolby Pro Logic. Perhaps you are not familiar with what that is. ProLogic works as I described above to extract four channels from stereo sources that are encoded using Dolby Surround. ProLogicII is an improved version that intelligently matrixes stereo sources to produce 5.1. It can sound pretty good, but it's not the same as discrete 5.1.

Originally Posted by tawny

I'm still trying to solve this problem. It just occurred to me that it might be possible to output HDMI from the blu-ray player and input digital coax into to the AVR. Would that work? Is there such a cable? I googled and couldn't find an HDMI-to-digital coax cable.

That won't work. Even if there were such as device, digital coax is limited to stereo PCM. It can't carry 5.1 audio unless it is encoded as DD 5.1 or DTS. So, HDMI->coax would leave you in the same place you are now.

[tawny]

Bislander. thanks so much for that great explanation. I am still too much of a novice to understand all of what you're saying. I can say that the AVR does not have the analog inputs, so #1 is not an option. Ultimately it's clear I need to get a new receiver, but I can't afford it now.

But there are a couple things that don't quite gel here for me:

-- for many blu-ray DVDs, if the Samsung player is set to Bitstream, what I wind up with on the receiver is Dolby Surround (with all five channel lights lit up). For others, when set to Bitstream I get silence. For those that produce silence on Bitstream, when set to PCM, my receiver shows lights for only 2 channels (stereo). However it actually routes sound to all 5 speakers, but it sounds completely flat, as if there weren't even stereo separation. So can you explain what is going on in those cases? Thanks.

[blujacket]

tawny, the discs you're playing and only getting 2 channel, are DTS encodes I bet. I would use the A/V outs (red & white) into your receiver until you can upgrade to HD audio bliss.

[ludawg23]

Originally Posted by Glyphen

In February 2008 I bought a Bd P1400 for $345.00, never worked quit right even with firmware updates. I called Samsung, they told me to wait for the latest release in about August. The player completely failed then. Now its out of warranty and they refused to help me with it. I have to have it fixed out of pocket now.

it gets better...

In November the BD P1500 went onsale at Wal-Mart for $199. I figured it had better reviews on this site then the 1400 so I bought it rather then have the 1400 repaired. This was very stupid of me....

After 3 months the 1500 player is exhibiting the same malfunctions as the 1400. Right after the warranty expiration. Samsung has been less then sympathetic to say the least. So at this point i'm down $545 bucks plus tax and have no blu-ray player to show for it.


Samsung has cost me a lot of heart ache over this and would strongly urge anyone to reconcider buying from them and chose another brand. I chose to go with a Samsung Blu-Ray because I had also purchased a 52 inch LCD from them last year. I feel so foolish now....

They make some great tvs but their blu-ray players are quite poor. Surprising...

[BIslander]

More information, please.

Originally Posted by tawny

-- for many blu-ray DVDs, if the Samsung player is set to Bitstream, what I wind up with on the receiver is Dolby Surround (with all five channel lights lit up).

What types of tracks are you playing? Those must be PCM tracks because bitstreaming DD and DTS tracks will produce silence or noise. A PCM track will get sent as PCM regardless of the player's digital audio output setting. Over a coax connection, the player will downmix a multichannel PCM track to stereo because that's all the coax connection can handle.

In a quick scan of the manual, I don't see any setting that would produce a Dolby Surround output. Perhaps the player simply does that on its own whenever outputting a PCM stereo downmix.

For others, when set to Bitstream I get silence. For those that produce silence on Bitstream, when set to PCM, my receiver shows lights for only 2 channels (stereo). However it actually routes sound to all 5 speakers, but it sounds completely flat, as if there weren't even stereo separation. So can you explain what is going on in those cases?

Again, what tracks are you playing? Silence is likely coming when bitstreaming DD and DTS tracks on the disc. When you use the PCM setting, the player decodes the tracks itself and then downmixes them to stereo. Since the Dolby Surround indicator doesn't come on and the sound seems flatter, I am guessing that the player doesn't use Dolby Surround when downmixing DD and DTS tracks for stereo output. The ProLogic decoder in your receiver may still be routing sound to the other speakers, but without the benefit of the Dolby Surround flags that actually provide four channels of discrete audio.

But, much of my post is guesswork due to lack of information about what tracks are being played and what the receiver reports it is receiving from the player. The front panel and on-screen displays of most AVRs will report the format of incoming digital signal.

The analog stereo outputs on the player will always produce sound that your receiver can handle. You may want to try that connection instead. Perhaps the analog stereo output will include Dolby Surround flags for every type of multichannel audio on the disc - PCM, DD, and DTS.