These disks are too big

[adsilcott]

Have you ever tried to put a portable disk player in your pocket?
What about new portable technologies? http://www.oqo.com/
Now matter how small they can make the components, these disks will always be the one missing feature simply because of their physical size.

I think any next generation optical disk format should take this into account. Otherwise the eventual demand for high data storage in a format compatible with portable devices will have to lead to yet another standard.

Of course smaller disks can be made, but as long as the -standard- size is too big, you will never be able to, for example, play a store bought video disk on a pocket size device. If a Blu-ray dual-layer disk can store -more- than four hours of HDTV, then how much smaller could a disk that stores two hours of HDTV be? It doesn't have to be that much smaller to be a lot more convenient. I would estimate that a 95mm or 3 3/4 “ disk would have plenty of storage capacity. And with additional layers, the disk space extends so far beyond our current needs, that it makes more sense to use the innovation to make the medium more convenient rather than adding excessive storage capacity.

Many people go through the hassle of ripping music CDs just to get their music in a more portable medium. With a new standard comes an opportunity to fix problems with previous formats. The whole idea of optical disks is to be able to convey data in a physical form. I find it disappointing that such forward looking formats are not considering the future requirements of that physical form.

[phloyd]

I believe that there will be 3" versions, just like for DVD and CD.

Question is, just how small does your HDTV need to be...???

Cheers!
DAve.

[adsilcott]

But how many movies, albums, applications, games, etc, are available in the 3" CD/DVD format? Almost none.

If you're only using it for recording that's fine. That is after all what it's been developed for. But if it's successful, and as HD TVs become more common, you know that eventually movies and other content will be commercially released in this format. When that happens, do you think they'll be available on 3” disks? Probably not, since a 3” disk will only store about a quarter of what the full size disk will store, which will not be enough for most HD content. If the majority of things available on Blu-ray disks are on larger disks, putting small drives in portable devices will be pointless. However if a somewhat smaller, but still -useful- disk were made, There would be no reason not to adopt it as the standard size.

Remember Laser Disks? They were very unwieldy-- but they had to be. The size was determined by the amount of data that needed to be stored and the technological limitations of that time. The size of the Compact Disk as well was determined by technological limitations. I'm sure, if they had had the capability back then they would have made them smaller. So why now, when we finally have a medium that can hold -more- than we need, are we still using the same “not so compact” size that we were stuck with in the past?

[phloyd]

I think that the real answer is that people like the 12cm discs since CD.

And so we have DVD, and now also Bluray at that same size.

Note that Nintendo Gamecube uses smaller discs... and the Gamecube can't play DVD's!

Anyways, there would be nothing stopping the media companies from releasing on 8cm discs.

But they probably won't.

Cheers!
DAve.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by phloyd

I think that the real answer is that people like the 12cm discs since CD.

And so we have DVD, and now also Bluray at that same size.

Note that Nintendo Gamecube uses smaller discs... and the Gamecube can't play DVD's!

Anyways, there would be nothing stopping the media companies from releasing on 8cm discs.

But they probably won't.

Cheers!
DAve.

There are 8cm cd's and dvd's out there. Just mainly for promotional purposes. Also in digital camcorders.

[Soymilk]

Originally Posted by adsilcott

Have you ever tried to put a portable disk player in your pocket?
What about new portable technologies? http://www.oqo.com/
Now matter how small they can make the components, these disks will always be the one missing feature simply because of their physical size.

I think any next generation optical disk format should take this into account. Otherwise the eventual demand for high data storage in a format compatible with portable devices will have to lead to yet another standard.

Of course smaller disks can be made, but as long as the -standard- size is too big, you will never be able to, for example, play a store bought video disk on a pocket size device. If a Blu-ray dual-layer disk can store -more- than four hours of HDTV, then how much smaller could a disk that stores two hours of HDTV be? It doesn't have to be that much smaller to be a lot more convenient. I would estimate that a 95mm or 3 3/4 “ disk would have plenty of storage capacity. And with additional layers, the disk space extends so far beyond our current needs, that it makes more sense to use the innovation to make the medium more convenient rather than adding excessive storage capacity.

Many people go through the hassle of ripping music CDs just to get their music in a more portable medium. With a new standard comes an opportunity to fix problems with previous formats. The whole idea of optical disks is to be able to convey data in a physical form. I find it disappointing that such forward looking formats are not considering the future requirements of that physical form.

The size of portable dvd players are fine. The reason why they don't fit in your pocket is because it was never meant to. Lets just say if the size of dvds were tiny and someone made a dvd player to fit in your pocket. The size of the screen would be 2inch maybe 3 inch? For reference, take out your cell phone, would you really want to watch a dvd on a screen that size? Would you want to stare at a screen that size for 2 hours? Even if there was a optical disc available that was 1 inch, I doubt it would really dramatically change the player ( until hologragphic displays come out ). Not because of the size for the drive but also the size of the screen.

The next generation disc is perfect as is. They are using a form factor that has been widely accepted. There is no "problem" to fix. There isn't a demand for having a format that is smaller than what it is now. Have you noticed the increasing size of laptops. Acouple years back 12 inch lcd notebook was the standard. Then there was 14.1 inch, then 15 inch, and now 15.4 inch and 17 inch. The market seems to be heading towards larger screens and larger laptops. The OQO and the Sony U50/U70/U750 only represent a very very small fraction of the mobile computing market. The handtop market hasn't really caught on and it doesn't look like its going to anytime soon. So this "eventual demand" isn't coming anytime soon. Its definately not going to demand a change for the next generation disc. Maybe next, next generation........ maybe.

Lets face it, portable mp3 players and Ultra portable handtops aren't going to use removable storage in the form of removable optical discs. A handtop computer with an optical drive would only make it very flimsy and easy to break not to mention malfunction due to dirt, moisture, and just moving it around while the disc is spinning. A handtop portable is also going to need a shock cushion optical disc reader. The whole idea behind the handtop was not to need a cd drive, the design is to be as minimalistic as possible (thats why cd drives weren't included in the current models). If in the situation you just happen to need a drive, you could easiely connect an external drive. Optical drives also suck battery juice fast too, the OQO only has a battery life of 3 hours. With a drive installed and running that cuts the battery life into about half.

The upcoming future for those type of items is going to be flash memory and or HDDs esp for mp3 players. There is really NO advantage of using a optical disc over flash memory or a HDD in a MP3 player. We're already at 60GBs on the latest ipod (hdd), thats about 15,000 songs and 1gb on sandisk (flash) about 1000 songs. Do you really need more?

There is no need the change the form factor of the size of the disc. If there was a real need for a change.... it would of happened already. Im sure they have at least 1 smart person working there. Its nice to be able to have the next gen disc at 8cm or smaller standard. But one of the features of keeping the drive the same size is to be able to be backwards compatible with cds and dvds.

On a last note..... check out the UMD being developed by sony. Its going to be used on their next gaming system, the PSP coming out 12/12 for japan and scheduled march 2005 for US. The UMD is a 60mm disc that can hold 900mb or 1.8gbs on a dual layer. This format looks like what you want. But, its probably gonna stay put just like gamecube's 3inch disc. You can cross your fingers and hope it crosses platforms into computers, but I doubt it.

[BD -> MD?]

I think what the guy is trying to say is that with the increased storage capacity of blue laser technology, smaller optical discs provide greater opportunities for companies to exploit this portability and thus introduce new ranges of portable movie players and other uses yet to be conceived - I mean small screens hardly require HD material, so that won't be a problem - it has the benefit of having a greater storage capacity than flash memory (at present) and is removable and interchangeable. Provided that the discs are in a case/chassis type configuration like that of modern MDs.

Larger laptops are signifying a trend towards desktop replacement systems that require not much portability - sure you may need to take it to and from work but will you really want to take a 17" notebook with you if you are doing surveying or environmental studies in the forests?

Once blue-laser technology has established itself as a standard format, there will be less need to be backwards compatible with current CDs and DVDs - as all this will be available on blue-laser discs.

Finally with the issue of UMD - I think Sony rushed into things a bit too quickly if it is not a blue laser optical disc. That's just my opnion.

[georgir]

"normal-size" discs hardly even fit in a pocket.
having smaller discs more widely used would be cool.

the 3" discs like what are available for CDs already are cool, but one could hope for even sleeker sizes.
unfortunately with the big "no-data" hole in the middle of the disc, you can't really make discs any smaller, and also it just feels like a wasted space especially for the 3" discs.

current technology is advanced enough to have a 1-inch diameter disk with the capacity of a CD, or if you take that to 8 layers - the capacity of the current one-layer DVDs. now THAT would be a breakthrough format!
at that size cartridges can be used without the concerns of wasting too much space or anything, the discs can be dual-sided, or even made so a single cartridge contains several discs. also a single 5" drive bay can house 5 or more devices or, say, a single device that can load a dozen of cartridges and act as a disc-changer (or even read them all at once with multiple heads there's plenty of room if the discs are of that size)
ok ok, im going a bit sci-fi on this, but is it so bad to dream of an interesting future? or are we gonna be stuck with the huge ugly CDs forever? Duh, even the holographic storage prototypes that are currently being researched are made in the "normal-size" CD form-factor if it goes like this, i may not ever live to see cool holographic data-cubes like in the books and movies i like

[philip2005]

Minidisc anybody?

[James Morrow]

... note that this was suggested around ten years ago - using the approaching single-layer DVD technology to give 1GB on a next generation minidisc, and a couple of years ago it was proposed to take blu-ray technology to dual-layer double-sided, giving 24GB on a minidisc for the new millennium. Since then, technology has progressed to potentially allow up to around 100GB on an eight-layer, double-sided high density minidisc. However, at the moment even a dedicated blu-ray only optical head is significantly larger than those that have been developed for minidisc in the ten or so years since it was launched, so portable high density minidisc will probably not launch first ... :?

[Hayden]

I reckon they should apply TDK's new 100GB physics to the Mini-Discs. That would make the Mini-Discs hold around 50GB!

Oh, and you all make your posts waaaay too big.

[th3archiv3]

we dont need minis and besides 100gb are the expensive ones 50gb will already be expensive... unless ur a rich person who really doesnt care

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Oh, and you all make your posts waaaay too big.

That may be the first time I've ever seen someone online criticize others for having a good detailed discussion. I actually enjoy reading longer, more thought out posts than short one-liners.

[thunderhawk]

It is very easy why they haven't made the Blu-ray Disc much smaller...

Robbery! Thats why DVD cartridges are so big! :P
Its that simple

[georgir]

What?

[Gorkab]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

It is very easy why they haven't made the Blu-ray Disc much smaller...

Robbery! Thats why DVD cartridges are so big! :P
Its that simple

I don't fully understand too :shock:

[thunderhawk]

Well...

They dont release DVD movies in smaller cases for example because of the risk of robbery...
Small discs can easily be stolen.

[Gorkab]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

Well...

They dont release DVD movies in smaller cases for example because of the risk of robbery...
Small discs can easily be stolen.

Ah yeah ! Well that's why SONY sold so much UMD Videos... :roll: ,They don't want to admit the fact that there is so much UMD videos that have been stolen... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[thunderhawk]

well, that was the explanation I got and thats also the explanation I got why DVD movie discs aren't shipped into CD cases... :? :|

[zombie]

Originally Posted by thunderhawk

well, that was the explanation I got and thats also the explanation I got why DVD movie discs aren't shipped into CD cases... :? :|

That's my understanding for the larger cases DVDs are in as well. Theft prevention.