Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Same post, here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=439

Okay, watching NBA playoffs but will download these real quick

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by ray0414

The sonys have issues playing hdr clips. Others recommend using a certain file player, but can't remember it off hand.

Nope, the standard app plays HDR video and I tried those on Kodi, MX player, archos player and the video app
And they all play HDR video and kick in HDR mode

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

None of the videos work in any video app on my Sony

Life of Pi official 4k HDR video works?
What TV?

[dvdmike]

Yep and the exodus one. 850c

[ray0414]

James, I watched the videos.

Life of pi has washed out blacks. The disc has inky blacks on those scenes, in your video they are gray.

The Martian looks identical to the uhd bd, so this one looks excellent!

Revenant also looks pretty good.

Avatar looks okay. But I think a real hdr graded version would look alot better.

Overall not a bad job

[James Freeman]

Finally some positive sayings!

Life of Pi is exactly 1:1 like the HDR demo from: HERE, so if it's washed it's in the source.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Finally some positive sayings!

Life of Pi is exactly 1:1 like the HDR demo from: HERE, so if it's washed it's in the source.

That might explain it. There are 2 different life of pi hdr demos on demo 3d and 1 of them is always has washed out blacks on my tv.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Posted at avs.

Marco Polo netflix. Hdr top, sdr bottom.

This pic backs up most of my HDR worries really. Ambient light doesn't work like this where everything is dark outside of the lighted area. It looks like nonsense TV settings like contrast boosting or what-have-you. On my cheap living room Vizio it's called "black detail" even though it makes blacks less detailed. Anyway, I don't like it is the point.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by ray0414

That might explain it. There are 2 different life of pi hdr demos on demo 3d and 1 of them is always has washed out blacks on my tv.

Both of them look the same (correct) on my set. My guess is there's some metadata there for correct presentation that your set is unable to interpret and that got lost in translation for the screenshot sequence preventing it from displaying correctly on any set.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

This pic backs up most of my HDR worries really. Ambient light doesn't work like this where everything is dark outside of the lighted area. It looks like nonsense TV settings like contrast boosting or what-have-you. On my cheap living room Vizio it's called "black detail" even though it makes blacks less detailed. Anyway, I don't like it is the point.

Most pics are thoroughly pointless, because there's simply no way of conveying the effect of watching HDR like that, and most of the time you have no idea if the same and proper exposure was used for the photos.

Anyway after trying it out for the last couple of days I must say it hasn't exactly won me over, and I have a number of issues with it:

- Increasing the backlight so much in order to display those intense lights makes the black level much worse.

- Increasing the backlight increases the power consumption so it's both more expensive and more wasteful.

- By default my set maxes the backlight in HDR mode and at that setting the strong light sources in the test clips actually hurt my eyes. Reducing the backlight to where I thought the bright parts were comfortable to look at the whole HDR effect was severely diminished. And I don't think it was just the intensity either as I felt like there was slight flickering (PWM flicker?) whenever the set kicked into HDR mode, causing further eye-strain.

- If you don't want to or are unable to use HDR then you must not only deal with a possibly arbitrary HDR regrade, but also an arbitrary SDR conversion on top of that, it's just a mess.

The first three problems could possibly be solved by OLED, on LCD I don't see HDR being all that great personally. Sure the image pops with increased clarity and depth, but I wouldn't really call it a pleasant viewing experience, and that's the real crux: either get eye-strain or reduce the effect to near pointlessness (how long till reports of "HDR fatigue" I wonder?) With OLED you could at least achieve the greater contrast without scorching your eyeballs.

So yeah, I will probably ignore UHD BD until I upgrade to OLED (players will probably be way too expensive for quite a while yet anyway.)

Also did I mention OLED?

[Show spoiler]Screw LCD

[StingingVelvet]

Yeah, I think an OLED with the ability to turn off HDR will be my goal around tax time next year.

[James Freeman]

Revenant and Avatar HDR slideshow videos have been updated.
Download them again: HERE

Now the average picture level matches the official UHD HDR blu-rays while the highlights still peak at 1000nit, the black levels were fixed too.
This is done with a reverse S-Curve, exactly the opposite of what they do to convert high dynamic (film or digital) to SDR-blu ray.
To find the right curve I converted the SDR martian photo to BT.2020 ST.2084 and then tweaked the curves to look exactly like the HDR photo (Histogram).
This gave me a reverse S-curve preset which when applied to SDR created instant HDR.
I just apply a "BT.2020 ST.2084.ICC" profile and my reverse S-Curve to the SDR image and get a straight SDR to HDR transfer.
Then encode these processed SDR to HDR photos to an HEVC video.

The results are fantastic and I hope the studios will NOT do that but grade scene-by-scene properly.

[pawel86ck]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Posted at avs.

Marco Polo netflix. Hdr top, sdr bottom.

That picture gives wrong ideas when it comes to HDR, because here it looks like SDR has more details in dark areas, while it should be just the opposite. It looks that way only because that picture SDR is set way too bright.

That picture looks similar to this comparison, so SDR is too bright, and so HDR looks dimmed in comparison
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/image/arti...ax-2-large.jpg

But here's how it looks when both displayes are calibrated
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/image/arti...ight-large.jpg

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/image/arti...ax-3-large.jpg
On calibrated HDTV's SDR and UHD APL should look similar.

Here's hdtvtestcouk article about that
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

[StingingVelvet]

Why would the person doing that pic comparison set his normal version brighter? That doesn't make much sense. I would guess anyone at AVS at least knows how to set brightness using a color bar image.

I'll have to compare my BD of Mad Max 4 to those pics on my calibrated set.

[pawel86ck]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Why would the person doing that pic comparison set his normal version brighter? That doesn't make much sense. I would guess anyone at AVS at least knows how to set brightness using a color bar image.

I'll have to compare my BD of Mad Max 4 to those pics on my calibrated set.

Most people make comparison like that on the same HDTV, with the same picture settings. But in order for HDR to look correct, HDTV need to use max backlight settings, while SDR needs lowered backlight settings to around 100 nits. Even by looking on that SDR "marco polo" picture it should be clear to you, that brightness in this SDR picture was set way too high (picture is clearly blown-out).

http://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html
that article explains everything when it comes to HDR

this is HDR simulation from that article (just simulation, so whites are intentionaly clipped, because in order to ilustrate HDR idea on SDR on display you have to clip whites even more)

SDR


HDR

Overal brightness is similar on both pictures, but HDR doesnt clip details .

This shows that the Average Picture Level (APL) of a ST2084 HDR display will not be significantly different to a SDR display.

So the reality is that ST2084 HDR should just ADD to the existing brightness range of existing displays, meaning that more detail can be seen in the brighter areas of the image, where existing displays simply clip the image detail.

And as hdtvtestcouk UHD vs BD comparisons shows, on calibrated HDTV's level of overall brightness is similar, exactly as "lightillusion" article concluded
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by pawel86ck

Most people make comparison like that on the same HDTV, with the same picture settings. But in order for HDR to look correct, HDTV need to use max backlight settings, while SDR needs lowered backlight settings to around 100 nits. Even by looking on that SDR "marco polo" picture it should be clear to you, that brightness in this SDR picture was set way too high (picture is clearly blown-out).

http://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html
that article explains everything when it comes to HDR

this is HDR simulation (because you just cant show HDR on SDR display anway)


Overal brightness is similar on both pictures, but HDR dosnt clip details .



And as hdtvtestcouk UHD vs BD comparisons shows, on calibrated HDTV's level of overall brightness is similar
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

That is a choice

[infiniteCR]

mike is right. You can have all the details without HDR. Its definitely a choice by the industry to make these new versions the way they are instead of the way they are in the movie theatres.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

mike is right. You can have all the details without HDR. Its definitely a choice by the industry to make these new versions the way they are instead of the way they are in the movie theatres.

Yes you do have a choice with SDR. You can either choose to clip the dark scenes or the bright scenes. There is simply not enough dynamic range to see all the detail in both at the same time.

With HDR there is no need to make that choice.

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

mike is right. You can have all the details without HDR. Its definitely a choice by the industry to make these new versions the way they are instead of the way they are in the movie theatres.

That's because theaters can't match the HDR a TV can produce. For now...
In case of HDR, Theaters are the holdback!

You simply cannot say that HDR on a 100,000:1 TV changes the creational intention of the director.
If this choice was a possibility, the director would DEFINITELY use that in theater if he could.

[pawel86ck]

That is a choice

Remember, this is just simulation, so on that picture whites are intentionaly clipped, because in order to ilustrate HDR idea on SDR on display you have to clip whites even more. But based on that comparison people (I hope) can at least get some idea what HDR actually does with the picture.