Screenshot Comparisons 4K

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Photoshop then

In other words, what you want is each 4K image to be manipulated in Photoshop till it looks just like the Blu-ray one. Or each one to be dimmed till it dims all the highlights detail above 100 nits to be under 100 nits, no matter if one has a 1000 nit max highlight, and another one has a 4000 nit highlight, and another a standard 100 nit highlight, just as long as the 100 nit "SDR" pic doesn't clip. So picture A should use a -3 setting and picture B a -10 setting and picture C a 0 setting. And if the movie has 20 shots shown, 20 different settings.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

In other words, what you want is each 4K image to be manipulated in Photoshop till it looks just like the Blu-ray one. Or each one to be dimmed till it dims all the highlights detail above 100 nits to be under 100 nits, no matter if one has a 1000 nit max highlight, and another one has a 4000 nit highlight, and another a standard 100 nit highlight, just as long as the 100 nit "SDR" pic doesn't clip. So picture A should use a -3 setting and picture B a -10 setting and picture C a 0 setting. And if the movie has 20 shots shown, 20 different settings.

Um yeah, um no
Wake me when we have direct feed shots in each mode

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

...

like I said before , you're concentrating on what a 10,000 to 0.0001 nit 10-bit image format converted (in 8 bits!) placeholder image looks like in 100 nit SDR 2.2γ computer image, most likely a ~1000:1 IPS LCD monitor. Like saying this Dolby Atmos multichannel mix sounds weird when heard in my stereo boom box.

Dude, as long as the actual SDR conversion done by the player doesn't look as Leon-hot as your SDR pics do then that's fine by me, but I'm not going to say that those homebrew converted pictures look great when the contrast is as nuked as that. [edit] If you're putting them out there like that then it's not crazy to expect them to be judged on face value regardless of what they were sourced from.

[Deciazulado]

The "SDR"s probably could be done a lot dimmer like for example maybe something like 500 nits = 100 or 1000 nits = 100 (or even 10,000 nits = 100) but they'll be 2 or 3 times (or 30) as dark on the web browser and then won't most people, those with regular SDR LCDs (instead of those that have higher top of the lines 500 and 1000 nit LCDs) then complain "The UHD is too dim when compared to the Blu-ray!"?

Is the problem to fit a square peg in a round hole. And fit all the variations in range from different movies into the least bright common denominator. That's why I postulated if that each would have to be manipulated / changed / altered from one another individually instead of all in one value untampered. You have the HDR rendering to see how high the highlights go above SDR.

[infiniteCR]

UHD should be better in SDR than bluray in every way possible. If not something is really Wong.

[42041]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

UHD should be better in SDR than bluray in every way possible. If not something is really Wong.

...there being no standard way of recovering the correct SDR color grade from the HDR would definitely qualify.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well following 4K spatial resolution finishing and the introduction and refinement of HDR, the next augmentation to next gen (UHD) video will be HFR

And on that note, at NAB to which I’m soon departing for, although not movie content and not primarily at the Sony booth, there will be an HFR demo over a realtime end-to-end chain over IPTV, which will be a first.

I am definitely NOT interested in 8k at home seeing that we have no content whatsoever at the moment that really uses the full spatial potential of 4k but I guess HFR is inevitable and the current standard allows for up to 60 frames after all which is plenty for most movements.

What I find much more important is a reasonable HDR standard for cinemas that again will allow us to have the same presentation at home that was intended for cinemas. I believe Dolby calls for around 100 nits in its Dolby cinemas and that would make much more sense for front projection systems at home and it certainly could be scaled up according to available display brightness to also accommodate TV's that go up to 500, 1000 or more nits.

[James Freeman]

Anyone care to test my screenshot videos on their HDR TV?
* Copy to USB stick and play on TV or UHD Player.

@Blu-ray.com
In regards to the official 4k HDR screenshots;
Please don't convert the Rec.2020 signal to Rec.709 because it clips or compresses the colors outside rec.709 (no better than a regular blu-ray).
In other words, the HDR images you post are only HDR with the wide gamut colors lost forever.
In your capturing method make sure the Player receives a Rec.2020 ST.2084 EDID so the player don't do any color or range conversion.

Before you you post thousands of 4k HDR screenshots in rec.709, please consider retaining the original rec.2020 gamut for people who actually have a profiled wide gamut screen and want to see colors outside rec.709.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Anyone care to test my screenshot videos on their HDR TV?
* Copy to USB stick and play on TV or UHD Player.

@Blu-ray.com
In regards to the official 4k HDR screenshots;
Please don't convert the Rec.2020 signal to Rec.709 because it clips or compresses the colors outside rec.709 (no better than a regular blu-ray).
In other words, the HDR images you post are only HDR with the wide gamut colors lost forever.
In your capturing method make sure the Player receives a Rec.2020 ST.2084 EDID so the player don't do any color or range conversion.

Before you you post thousands of 4k HDR screenshots in rec.709, please consider retaining the original rec.2020 gamut for people who actually have a profiled wide gamut screen and want to see colors outside rec.709.

I planned to check them out but working all weekend. Hopefully soon.

[Pyoko]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Fellows could you be kind and try on your TV
THESE HDR Screenshot VIDEOS:

Tried a couple on my Samsung JS8500. They trigger the HDR mode but there's no real HDR effect, comparing the Life of Pi screenshot sequence to the HDR trailer the blacks are extremely washed out.

It looks similar to when playing the trailers in madVR (which converts to SDR) while maxing the backlight. Also there's some problem with the files themselves, they don't seem to seek properly or show duration in MPC-HC, and on my Samsung it spits out an error message halfway through.

[James Freeman]

Okay, fixed the seeking problem, I had to mux to mp4 instead just rename the hevc file.
Please redownload from this post: Small HDR Screenshot Test Videos

EDIT:
Avatar HDR is up, 35 images all from SDR blu-ray.com converted to HDR.
Converter to ST.2084, shrunk to output level 190 (1000nit), encoded in HDR.
A "Lazy HDR" I shall call it.

By the look of it, most SDR blurays already contains the HDR range it is just compressed, meaning it can be un-compressed and mastered as HDR (I just did that).
Also by the look of it, a straight transfer from SDR to HDR can be done and I think if the studios are lazy they might be doing just that.
A "Lazy HDR" will cost much MUCH less than a proper HDR mastering but generate the same amount of sales, we'll see.

[Geoff D]

The likes of Technicolor already have their own SDR-to-HDR conversion doohickeys so yeah, it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' we start seeing "lazy" conversions (like those quick fire 3D conversions from Fox which used some kind of automated JVC process).

[James Freeman]

Just made Revenant HDR Slideshow because why not...

This movie looks like it was primarily graded for HDR only then converted to SDR.
Not all scenes with white utilize peak brightness like some lazy conversion, this is great.

[dvdmike]

None of the videos work in any video app on my Sony

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Just made Revenant HDR Slideshow because why not...

This movie looks like it was primarily graded for HDR only then converted to SDR.
Not all scenes with white utilize peak brightness like some lazy conversion, this is great.

What was your source for that?

[ray0414]

Posted at avs.

Marco Polo netflix. Hdr top, sdr bottom.

[James Freeman]

Originally Posted by ray0414

What was your source for that?

Did you try it?
I have yet to see a single comment about these video from a person with an HDR TV.

Marco Polo netflix. Hdr top, sdr bottom.

That's what I'm talking about!
Instead of applying S-curve they just clipped it, lazy bumps...

Originally Posted by dvdmike

None of the videos work in any video app on my Sony

What does it say in the manual, can the app player read HEVC HDR video files?

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Did you try it?
I have yet to see a single comment about these video from a person with an HDR TV.


That's what I'm talking about!
Instead of applying S-curve they just clipped it, lazy bumps...

I haven't had a chance to download anything yet. Where's the revenant clips?

I thought the hdr version on top looked great. Lots of added detail and less blowout.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

None of the videos work in any video app on my Sony

The sonys have issues playing hdr clips. Others recommend using a certain file player, but can't remember it off hand.

[James Freeman]

Same post, here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=439